Only 1 person on this forum is trying my protocol and he is patient X, and when I say patient, I don’t mean my patient, I mean the general sense of the word. So far he is responding as expected, we are just waiting on the test propionate to come in, once it does then he will go on it (should be days now). Once he completely reversed he will be posting here and all will believe him. Then I will move on one way or another. This forum is filled with some vicious and jaded guys who just are counter productive to any recovery. I’m just posting my progress and then he will post his and I assume he will move on as I do as well. No need to stay behind and prove anything to anyone or argue with liars.
Hey man, good to hear you are still doing good and that you are continuing to tweak and update your methods. I am trying to figure out where and how my own personal experiences relates to your more recent estrogen domience theories. As you already know during my four years and one month of suffering from this syndrome I did a clomid restart. The details are as follows:
50 mg worse of clomid every other day for two years. The entire time my total testosterone was testing in anywhere between 900-1100 NG/DL. Of course we don’t need reference ranges to know that’s fucking awesome as far as total T goes. My free T was always good to.
6 months in me and my endo noticed my estrogen was to high. It was 60 somthing. We added in armidex at 1mg per day and I remained on 1mg worse of armidrx for the remaining year and a half of my clomid restart. The 1 Mg worse of armidrx every day moved my estrogen down to the low twenties.
Anyways here is my point/questions as it relates to your estrogen theory:
why did I not get better during this time? As I had out standing T levels while taking armidex…
Why would taking the testosterone that you recommend combined with armidex make me better if my outstanding response to clomid while taking armidex did not?
I am not challenging this, I actually like how you are combining your reduced 5 alpha reductase activity theory with the estrogen theory as you are more or less saying are ratios are all fucked up which I agree with…
But even with that said you need to consider my experience and how getting my T upped with clomid combined with armidex never helped me and how I was on both meds for a year and a half.
Actually man to be honest my condition took a turn for the worst as far as my ED induced PFS goes as soon as I added in the armidrx
Anyway as always it’s good to see you doing good
Also forgot to add I am on bored with you as far as agreeing that us PFS guys can not go by what is normal estrogen levels for a normal guy. I feel this way because we are now extra sensitive to estrogen with are altered 5 alpha reductase regulation/production.
Something about are altered system is making us extra sensitive to estrogen. This logic/thought is the major thing I take away from your most recent theories regarding estrogen domience.
It would be good to hear from other people who have used armidex combined with trt so we can hear about their experiences. Depending on their feedback I may try it again but this time at a higher armidex dosage as you recommend.
I know you hate blood work results but I’m really intrested to know what your estrogen readings are at this time. I’m sure dr Jacobs will try to get other people labs to match yours in an attempt to create s pattern here
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I m not lying. You are, as usual. You “advised” RQ. As he states in this post.
It is recent quitters effort to replicate jqd s protocol. He uses trt with silly quantities of arimidex and notes NO CHANGE in his condition. JQD will no doubt come back at me and say “but he is using enthanate t etc.” If you look on page 1 of this thread this is what jqd was “reversed” with. He did promise to leave at that point but it obviously stopped working as may this latest “final protocol” at some stage.
The testosterone precursor source is largely irrelevant. Short acting is injected in lower quantities more frequently, long acting is injected in higher quantities less frequently. That’s all. Both forms of t yield the same results in men who RESPOND to it. Ie. Normal androgenic effects.
Would you please explain your omission of this data point as he has replicated your use of trt and high dose arimidex. Such an omission demonstrates your north Korean attitude regarding reporting on those you advise. You serve little more purpose than a tin pot propoganda minister for your wildly variable drug protocols. With an appropriate serving of delusions of grandeur.
It will be good to hear from people who have used testosterone propionate and arimidex only I think as JQD has clearly stated this is the only test that has worked!
If you look back through his post history over the last 5 or 6 months the list.of things that he has used and at that time “reversed pfs” is long, expensive and highly varied.
Feel free to go down this path of trt etc. If you have low t it makes sense. If you are at your wits end you may as well. I m just highlighting the obvious regarding jqd.
Finbasteride, he did not replicate my protocol, not at all, not a little bit, not even close. My protocol is not possible without testosterone propionate, I was also non responsive to enanthate and cypionate is even more estrogenic. He injected 120mg of testosterone cypionate which peaks in 2 days and takes 5 days to even start to decline. This whole time there are massive amounts of highly estrogenic testosterone in your body with a compromised 5AR system that cannot reduce test to DHT consistently or enough.
His DHT is already shut down and been shut down, even if it were possible to manage the estrogen release from such a dose of testosterone cypionate, his DHT has been shut down by Estrogen dominance and has been non functional. Taking tons of Arimidex will do nothing but make him less miserable, it will not start his DHT back up. In order for him to recover, he needs to be off cypionate for at least 10 days, taking arimidex every day to lower his estrogen and get it to normal levels, both regular estrogen and neurosteroidal estrogen (which is undetectable).
Testosterone propionate peaks within hours and declines within hours, I am injecting 30mg a day and it immediately induces a huge amount of 5AR and DHT (in normal men) in us it will make us feel normal and testosterone and DHT. After the mega induction of DHT, the testosterone starts to dissipate very quickly (within hours). Both he and you simply do not understand endocrinology or neuroendocrinology or hormones and their various esters and effects from them on our system.
He was also using Aromasin which is suppressive of DHT, it makes our systems think we have enough DHT and we stop producing more. So as I have said many times over and over, the only form of testosterone that will consistently work with PFS is propionate, no other form can work consistently (except at very low doses after DHT has been stimulated and with lots of anti estrogen protocols).
While Goldstein is using low doses of testosterone, I have found a way to get PFS non responders to respond to higher doses of testosterone using this method. When you inject testosterone cypionate, it immediately will induce some DHT, but aromatize very quickly, once that aromatization takes effect it will signal our system that we have too much testosterone (as high testosterone is aromatized into estrogen). So our systems respond by shutting down DHT and thus 5AR as well, I know first hand as I have seen it occur over and over.
If reversing PFS were as easy as injecting cypionate and taking tons of arimidex then everyone would be recovered by now from some doctor like dr Jacobs. What Recentquitter doesn’t understand and may never understand (not to bash him, this stuff is just complicated and he like many here cannot grasp it) is that that initial DHT boost he felt from cypionate (before he became totally estrogen dominant) is replicable. I also was curious why I had a full response to testosterone (enanthate in my case) and then never again in 3 months till I started HGH. After starting HGH I kind of felt testosterone, HGH regulates 5AR activity which then starts reducing test to DHT, so I was using my own HGH to manage these estrogen dominance crashes. At the time I didn’t know they were estrogen dominance attacks, I didn’t know what they were, I just knew HGH resolved them.
So having and in depth knowledge of hormones, I wanted to try and replicate the scenario that caused me to have that one boost recent quitter also had and never had again and I never had again at that point. Recent quitter cannot accept that I never had it again as he just spent a lot of time and money flying to see Dr Goldstein, so accepting what I say is difficult, he wants to follow this path he is on and that is cool, I was there in the past, I evolved past DHT replacement. DHT replacement is counter productive to recovery, he is incorrect about some guys responding to DHT and some guys not (so is Goldstein).
DHT in a PFS guy will suppress his own (if he is producing any) and it will act as an anti estrogen, but it will not work without testosterone, and if you aren’t on testosterone it will work at first and then start suppressing your own DHT and eventually you will become estrogen dominance and low test. Goldstein’s protocol using the very crappy andractim gel will work, but you will not be like a normal man on test, you will be a weak skinny or fat kind of low testosterone looking man.
If DHT replacement were to be used, it should be Masteron, as Masteron would work by being a potent AI, it is actually the only way to get a PFS guy to consistently respond to test enanthate (or even cypionate perhaps). It takes 3 weeks, but injecting masteron would lower estrogen consistently like if it were your own DHT as it is a depo injection that releases just like testosterone, so you would have a slow release of DHT in the form of Masteron and testosterone parallel to each other. This therapy is counter productive to getting better, I went down this road and left it as I figured out what was really going on with PFS.
Months ago I started propionate on everything else I was on, I used it as a boost to boost my own DHT, but still didn’t know these crashes were estrogen dominance. Now, today I know by keeping estrogen very low and testosterone long acting esters out of my system or the systems of guys with PFS, we can then replicate that first experience Recent quitter and we all had. That was the goal of this protocol, to replicate that first DHT reaction he had, I had, and many of us had but then never had again. I felt DHT minimally spread out over the week in the past using HGH, but never had that burst again that Recentquitter was talking about.
Not till I got into propionate, lowering estrogen enough, clearing the system of estrogenic test and injecting testosterone propionate will immediately induce DHT, but in recent quitter’s case it would take 1 to 3 weeks for his DHT to recover after Aromasin use. If he does in fact go on DHT gel it will be like taking finasteride again, when he quits he will be right where he left off when he crashed first (that was what happened to me when I stopped DHT).
So propionate induces this DHT which has a 5 day half life, over the next week or so DHT will build up in our system, even though we have a compromised 5AR system, this is so strong and so massive, that it works, propionate cannot be tolerated by a lot of guys do to its HEAVY dht profile. The acne and hair loss and all is a reason most guys wouldn’t use it, plus the injecting daily, for us it is perfect. We inject it, get that initial boost, then as estrogen starts to rise, we can control it with arimidex as needed, but the beautiful thing is that as hours pass, the testosterone lowers and lowers. The DHT it induced starts to balance out and handle some of the estrogen and the goal is over time for this to create an environment where our neurosteroids will change back to pre fin.
These are principals, there is no protocol with a set amount of arimidex or propionate, everyone will require their own doses, arimidex has to be used as needed, my theories and principals never changed, they evolved. As I found better forms of test and better forms of controlling estrogen I updated my protocol. Now for the first time I am able to have that response to testosterone every day, I need between 1 to 5mg of arimidex a day to control the estrogen from 30mg a day of propionate.
What recent quitter was trying to do was not possible, when I was on enanthate I had been keeping my DHT pumping by constantly injecting propionate to boost it, and lots of HGH induced to keep the test to DHT conversion going on. When I went on Aromasin, it was a miracle at first, like DHT but without the sexual benefits, as time went on I started having estrogen spiking, my muscles were shrinking, I was getting muscle twitches, feeling panic, anxiety, water retention, so I had to take more arimidex and more, on Aromasin it took me 13mg a day of Arimidex to prevent my DHT from being shut down by estrogen dominance.
When I first started Aromasin I told Dr Jacob I had fears it would be suppressive of this condition like DHT was, but neither of us knew if it was Recent Quitter was trying to find out on google lol, but unfortunately these things are principals and concepts that I understand and someone like Dr Jacobs understands, and it won’t be on google (well not it will be with my posts). The fact is, there was no way to know how a PFS guy would react to Aromasin till I tried it, most of you are completely shut down and have been. So if you take Aromasin you will feel improvement as it lowers estrogen, but you won’t move past a certain point and you will never recover.
So Recent quitter did not try my protocol, not even close or remotely close, he is a nice guy and I am not saying anything bad about him, he is just extremely stubborn and I have explained this many times and he wants citations from google and proof. I am not here to prove anything, I am working with 1 person here who is well known to the forum, once he gets his propionate (any day now) we will progress to that point. So far using these principals with arimidex and inducing his own DHT with tribulus he has confirmed my principals and theories are correct.
Once he reverses then I will stay a while to watch people go back and forth with him and then I am moving on. I have reversed this condition, I know for FACT Recent Quitter simply doesn’t understand what I am talking about, that doesn’t mean he is dumb, he is a smart guy, but not everyone can understand everything. I do not have the time, nor the energy to argue with people I don’t know on a forum, some of you just want to argue and be negative, it is pointless to me, what am I proving and to whom? I already know what I am talking about, understand why recent quitter responds the way he does, and why you all respond the way you do, and I knew how to reverse it. I have in 3 guys (including myself) and a 4th who as I said will be posting here when all is done.
Some of you seem to think I have to prove something here or want to, no I don’t, I have studied hormones for years, I went to Harvard where I majored in Pharmacology. I ran a medical company for a good amount of time, I do not get my information from google, I already know it and knew it from working in the medical field. My purpose for posting here is to document my experiences and research so that in the future others can read this and reverse their condition.
There is no such thing as a non responder to testosterone, that is a myth like unicorns, it’s just that when guys don’t understand this stuff, it is easy to draw that conclusion. Hell, with my education and background, I even was starting to believe that at one point, but it is all in the ester of test. I designed a protocol based around recreating that first burst every single day, every guy here will respond to it without exception. I am willing to work with anyone who wants my help and actually has test propionate and arimidex, otherwise I will not bother.
Finbasteride, your goal is to discredit me, that is perfectly fine, I really don’t care, I am not going to be on this forum much longer, I am only staying to finish with this Patient X (not my patient, but a patient of PFS). I am doing this because most guys here want my help, it is only a few who are being douche bags, I am not going to let that ruin it for everyone. Now, I have explained this a million times every which way, but Recent Quitter will continue to say that he doesn’t understand why he didn’t respond to 120mg of cypionate (with a 7 day half life) and with his DHT shut down due to estrogen dominance because he took 25 mg of arimidex lol.
I am afraid it is not that simple, the 5AR system and test to DHT cycle must be restarted from scratch, DHT must be induced and built up over 3 weeks and as that happens you will need less and less arimidex. I will be trying to find new and better protocols around these principals in time. Dr Goldstein is at least working with people, that is great, I am not a doctor and Dr Jacobs is only learning this stuff from me and is too busy and expensive for most people.
I can tell you a few things, Goldstein is wrong about using DHT, he is wrong that some guys don’t respond to DHT, he just hasn’t used a strong enough form and has not used it correctly. These guys are not getting better because they are replacing DHT, they are feeling better as DHT is a potent anti estrogen, it is stronger than Arimidex, Arimidex can only do so much. The problem is that it will suppress all your DHT and any chance of yours recovering, and that gel is all the DHT you will ever have.
Our bodies heal and recover, your neurosteroids cannot recover while estrogen dominance is going on, I can’t expect people here to follow this. So I have posted a version of my protocol that should be able to work as a standard for most guys who can’t understand these principals. Start out with 10g of test propionate daily and split 2mg of arimidex into 4 halves and take them spaced out evenly throughout the day. You may need more, or you may need less, and you then try to increase your propionate after you are comfortable and find the daily dose that works and the doses of arimidex that work.
Taking an AI once a day doesn’t work, it must be used as needed, I have restored myself to prefin, I am not just some skinny guy who can get erections and feels normal and thinks he is 100%. I am bigger and stronger than a non PFS guy, that was my goal, to be AS I WAS before PFS, not just some ridiculous fool on DHT gel and test cypionate. I want to recover over time, DHT (via masteron) is the easy way out, but you will be stuck like that forever. The suppression of your own DHT could even make things worse over time, who knows. My method is designed around recovery, I have decided I am not arguing anymore about it, I will explain it here, document my experiences and anyone who wants to argue is on their own.
You don’t have to follow this protocol, there are many others you can try, CDnuts for example, Chi or whoever else, this protocol is for people who actually want to reverse PFS and recover, not everyone does. I believe some people here just want to remain sick or find it easier to sit home and attack people rather than be constructive. I am not going to waste my time and energy to educate people who cannot learn and ask the same questions over and over after I answer them extensively (like I just did). Life is short, when I told recent quitter I was non responsive to test just as he, instead of believing me, he was trying to find ways to prove that wasn’t true. That isn’t cool, he doesn’t want to accept that I am right because he would have to order propionate and hold off on trying Goldstein’s protocol which is HARDLY anything innovative, it is just standard HRT with Andractim added on it and wellbutrin.
If DHT therapy was the best way to go, I would still be there, look at the title of this thread, why would I leave something if it worked? It doesn’t give you full recovery, anyone can buy andractim online, you don’t need Goldstein, but I am against all forms of DHT for PFS (including Aromasin). I am not going to sit here arguing with people who don’t believe me or understand why Aromasin is suppressive, so go on and suppress your system and replace everything and live on a thousand hormones for the rest of your life and keep in mind you may get worse and worse over time, you won’t recover this way.
I have outlined and easy way to recover, to reverse this, it will take about 3 weeks to a month, you can do it if you want, or do something else. I am all muscle, I wanted full recovery, not some dim shadow of myself that is sickly and excited because I can get an erection, give me a break.
Don’t worry Lukas, I am working with a very well known member here, once he is reversed (which is soon), that will be proof enough to help the people here who want to be helped. He already agreed though that he isn’t going to stay around arguing with people who tell him he is lying or going to fail or whatever, though, I doubt anyone here will doubt this guy, once he posts it will end this debate.
Hi there 5 alpha, was wondering where you went, you did shitty quite simply because with testosterone in that range, 1mg of arimidex is a joke. You would have to lower your estrogen a lot , probably 1 to 6mg a day spaced out, the problem is, we need a controlled environment. When you are relying on your own natural test, it is unpredictable, we need a huge surge at once and then a decline, a constant release of test makes it difficult to manage the condition.
I have advanced A LOT since we last talked 5 alpha, if you have read my theories starting on page 3 here, I have already duplicated them and if you want I can duplicate them in you. I can reverse your condition, but it takes more than 1mg of arimidex lol. The concept with propionate is to induce a mega dose of 5AR and DHT (which in our systems will be a normal dose as we are compromised). Then we manage the estrogen with arimidex taken as you feel estrogen symptoms, panic, anxiety, muscle twitches, soft muscles, trouble taking deep breaths, depression, despair. As you feel these symptoms you take 1mg of arimidex, and in an hour they will be gone.
We consistently do this with propionate and allow your system to build up DHT and have a reserve and then less arimidex is needed as your body has more DHT and the 5AR system is working every day. Over time your neurosteroids will correct, you can correct neurosteroids with regular hormones, you have to do this based on your feeling, it is the best judge. Taking 1mg of Arimidex a day won’t cut it, that’s where everyone has gone wrong, there is no set dose every day, doesn’t work that way.
You need to manage your estrogen since your body cannot right now, and that must be done with arimidex as needed, once you keep your estrogen under control your body will start reducing test to DHT (with the propionate) and it will get better and better. Remember that once estrogen dominance sets in, it shuts down your DHT as it signals your body you have too much test.
What obvious Finbasteride? That I am not a magician and could not come up with 1 protocol that fixes PFS on the first day I tried and stuck with that one same protocol forever never changing anything, never learning, never growing, never evolving? Is that what you call progress and good science and a way to get where I got? Do you think I should stop now? Never look for better ways to control estrogen or induce DHT because for some reason in your mind doing so is bad?
If you want to sit around attacking people like me who are finding cures for this and treatments, that is fine, I am sure it is extremely helpful to everyone here.
5 alpha, PFS is undetectable mostly as the problems are occurring with the hormones in the brain, not necessarily the body, they are called neurosteroids, they do not show up on tests, but they can be altered with regular hormones. There is a disruption to the 5AR system, it is not reducing test to DHT consistently, the test is converted to estrogen which then shuts down your DHT and signals your body you have high estrogen. When is the last time you had your testosterone tested? Over time it will decline as estrogen dominance sets in, to recover we need to control our hormones, but if you don't want to do that then use arimidex as needed till you do not feel estrogen dominance.
Then use test boosters to induce 5AR and DHT, people who have recovered always did so after constant 5AR stimulation and DHT induction. CDnuts recovered not from DHT, his DHT pro hormones were suppressive, he recovered after 4 years of recovery and then constant PCT cycles which induce 5AR and DHT.You claim on page 1 to be reversed 100% using t enthanate just 3 weeks ago. Go look for yourself.
At that point you said you were leaving yet here we are. A few weeks later a different protocol. We ll see where you are and X man are in a few months. If its consistent I may consider it but after the last debacle you PMed me I remain highly dubious.
JQD, it’s been many, many days you say to us that a “well-known user” has been using your protocol and waiting for his propionate to come, and will reverse his pfs, and will come here and tell us so, and it will be a major event like the second coming or something like that. Why the hell doesn’t he come here by himself now and tell us himself his progress in real time??? It’s not a problem if he’s not 100% reversed now, it would be interesting to have his word about his growing progress. Why doesn’t he tell us what you told us, that he started arimidex and tribulus and had good response? WHY??? And why the 2 others who are fully reversed don’t take just the little effort to write ONE post to tell us about their reversing, and then go away?? It’s OK if they don’t want to stay among a bunch of “negative people”, but just one post won’t kill them.
WHY?
I can assure you I trusted your reversal, and somehow I still do. But this is a little too much. I am not negative, i want this protocol to succeed, for you, your three “patients”, for myself (I WILL try it and I will tell everyone here my response) and for everyone here. But please, this whole mystery surrounding your three “patients” is a little too much and I can’t help now being a little dubious. And believe me, I will be really glad if I’m proven wrong.
please DONT DO steriods! That dangerous like finasteride or more. Justquidut was a steriod user before and just quit propecia/finasteride months ago!
You have NO IDEA what good science is. None at all my man. Ramming yourself with a large variety of hormones/inhibitors in grossly high amounts in the case of arimidex and denying the usefulness of diagnostic testing is about as far from good science as the Quran.
You are however good at concocting large swathes of science fiction theories. I have no doubt the wild hormonal swings you induce alleviate symptoms for a while before you need to change a faltering protocol.
That is all…
Finbasteride I am not stupid, you never tried propionate, you ordered aromasin and tried to get better using that a lone, also you used it after I warned it didn’t work. Then you complain because it doesn’t work, that’s my fault? You need propionate for this to work and every doctor is writing aromasin having no idea it is suppressive, I found out. You are so lucky I am posting here, one day you will find out I am 100% correct, when patient X posts.
You will apologize for this, he is very well known here and specifically asked to stay unknown till he is sure this will work, he is one of the most negative people here. He wants to be 100% as he said he doesn’t want to keep people’s hopes up. That’s first and second his propionate hasn’t arrived yet, and if he outs himself he will get 1000000 messages like myself, only worse because he is someone no one will doubt. I fear it will fuck up his recovery if negative people start messaging him and arguing with him, he is at a crucial time.
This hasn’t been easy for me to deal with all this, I have had to help him through some negativity, I don’t care if you guys don’t believe me or not, you will find out soon enough. When he is on propionate and reversed and he is sure it works he will then come forward, he said he doesn’t want to get people’s hopes up.
I don’t care if you don’t believe me, I am not out to prove anything but get this one user completely reversed before I move on, my motivation is to help others here, that is it. With enough convincing I could get him to come forward now, but he has said he doesn’t want to give false hope. Not everyone here wants to post progress like I have, remember that I believe is something not many here have done before if ever.
I started this whole posting progress as I go and I have been attacked for it from day one that I post too much etc… You guys did this to yourselves, attacking me for posting progress, telling me to leave and come back in 3 months. Those are his wishes, this guy is not someone who makes false claims or posts till he is sure, I have really gotten to know him and he is smart enough to understand everything, so I am trying to teach him everything I know.
So standby and just wait for him to come forward, if you want to question my integrity then you will just feel terrible when you are proven wrong. Chill out man, why would I lie, like I am making money off this? It is horrible to argue with you all and a waste of my time. There are just guys here who deserve this and I need to get it out before I move on, this is the best way.
Please tell us how hormones are dangerous, I was be fascinated to hear considering in the US where I live hormone replacement therapy is considered healthy and called “anti-aging medicine.” It is practiced by doctors and extending lives and making people happier, so I am taking one of you Brits to task. We used to think hormones were dangerous too when we were behind like you guys about 10 years ago.
Belikewater, tell us about the dangerous of hormones please considering NO ONE has ever died from hormones or as you call them “steroids.” In fact testosterone prevents diabetes and altziemers disease. It improve health by lowering body fat and increasing energy etc… You have estrogen raging throughout your body, estrogen causes cancer and is dangerous, please tell us what is so dangerous about hormones??
and if hormones are so dangerous why does EVERY FUCKING DOCTOR treating PFS use them!?!?!? Take your hormones are dangerous bullshit and fuck off, go heal naturally then, this thread isn’t for you.
Since Patient X is not going to post till he is sure and on propionate, I will post for him, I am happy to report he is still doing better on the arimidex and tribulus, the propionate is inside the USA so should be there anyway now. However, he is increasingly doing better using these principals. He says he will post everything once he is sure, so don’t worry, but today he said he had sex 2 times, it’s not propionate, just tribulus and arimidex, but he is having improvements so the concepts are working.
At first I disagreed with him keeping quite, but after how I have been treated, I think it is for the best till he is on propionate and 100% sure of himself, it is still just the beginning and with tribulus and arimidex it is just testing the waters. WE still have a long road ahead, we will have to figure out what dose of propionate is right for him, how much arimidex he will need, but that shouldn’t be difficult.
Don’t worry guys, you will find out soon enough, I am sure you will all be apologizing for questioning me then lol.