JustQuitDut ,
Unfortunately even for a normal people, Andractim lose his effects after a few months. you need to stop for a few months to start again.
we really need those enzimes to convert into DHT. The enzimes is the only way to recovery.
Something is blocking the enzimes. You Know that.
It doesn't lose effectiveness when you remain on supplemental Testosterone, as I said, Dr Goldstein is having success with guys on this longterm, Tow8er is an example. The problem lots of guys make here is comparing us to body builders or other guys, we are not other guys. We have a specific condition which results in high neurosteroidal estradiol, low neurosteroidal DHT.
We require exogenous testosterone to boost all of our levels and keep them steady, the purpose of DHT is to kill off neuro steroidal estrogen and raise neurosteroidal DHT. Normal guys are using high doses for different reasons, we are using very small doses (not as directed by the prescription). This is not my discovery, it has been done successfully by Goldstein for a while (in some guys). The only difference is I do not agree with Goldstein's view that this is correcting the ratio of DHT to Testosterone, I believe it is correction neurosteroidal imbalances. It is lowering Neruosteroidal estrogen (estradiol), and exogenous testosterone boosts testosterone and thus estrogen. The increase in testosterone from Andractim does not result in the sufficient increase in estrogen as the DHT dose will overshadow the estrogen.
It must be done this way or it simply will not work, again, Goldstein is having long term success with this, otherwise I might be still looking for an injectable form of DHT. If we keep the dose low and inject testosterone, we are stimulating 5ar which will result in reduction of test to DHT and the functions of the 3 enzymes. The doses are very important, it is no secret this therapy fails on guys who are not on exogenous test. I suggest you listen to me and try it the way I say, this isn't about me trying to be right or wrong, if Goldstein is using it long term this way with success it should give you optimism.
If it fails in a few months on testosterone, then come back to me, unfortunately the problems are occurring in a way that cannot be tested. You CANNOT EVER use exogenous DHT long term without exogenous testosterone, it will always fail. Anyway, if it did fail, I would expand on this approach, I would get a long acting ester version of androstanolone created that would replace DHT completely. Just so you know, I experimented heavily with DHT and made many mistakes, the answer is in low doses of everything.
I know things may fail, or can fail, but if Goldstein is having long term success with exogenous test, it makes me more optimistic. I suggest again that you contact Tow8er, he has PFS and is on the gel long term with success (along with exogenous test). This isn't about who is right or wrong, I don't care who's idea it is, just trying to get the info out there.JustQuitDut ,
testosterone injection have a boost in the shot, and slowly decrease levels after a few days. this is very different from the normal body works.
could not have ups and downs?
you said that already does testosterone replacement for many years, even before PFS.
currently, you are dependent on testosterone injections?
if you want to stop the use of injections, think your body can return to produce testosterone again?
some bodybuilders take many months with clomiphene to recover.
I am not using testosterone injections the way you are thinking, I designed a protocol that works based on the same principals as natural testosterone. I am injecting a fast acting short ester version of testosterone called āTestosterone Propionate,ā every day I inject myself with 10mg of test propionate, that boosts my levels like natural production. So I have steady levels, I use a low dose of the gel every day too, I will be dependent on testosterone injections for life. Before I got what I call āStage 2 PFS,ā my testosterone was fucked by finasteride, I went on HRT and responded perfectly (till I took Avodart and did myself in), I had planned on staying on for life.
I am only interested in being normal, and maintaining normalcy, I am not concerned with curing this condition. Hopefully over time my system will recover, but right now I am just trying to live life. It sounds like you used Andractim at doses the package suggests, even on testosterone this would result in failure, it must be small doses 2 eminem sized doses, 1 on each side of your rib cage. You must use exogenous testosterone, maybe a long acting ester will work at a low dose, I know Goldstein uses a long ester at a low dose, that is not as efficient as propionate daily (like I am doing).
If this remain stable for a few months I might try a long acting ester, but long acting esters as you noted are not stable, you have a rise in test and a gradual drop, that is why propionate is the best way. Once DHT builds up in our system, we will have enough to kill off estrogen even better, it takes time for it to build up. Only time will tell is recovery occurs, but we do know CDnuts, JN, and Tow8er all recovered on exogenous DHT. CDnuts cycled and did not replace or supplement, JN used it and reversed PFS and then later recovered and attributed it to something else. Tow8er has recovered or remains perpetually reversed on a similar protocol using Andractim, it is working now, has been for days, the only way it could fail in a few months is if one of my own hormones fails, that should not happen with exogenous test injections. Anyway, it is not so much about mimicking natural doses, it is about getting enough of these hormones into your body for your body to regulate them (kind of).
I wonder if everyone from Germany is this stupid. I have donated. I have attempted to get in on the studies and canāt for two reasons;
I took Avodart in the past.
My problems started after taking saw P.
Ohh and you answered my question by the way. You have done nothing to help anyone.
For now on any time I see a post from you I will only respond by saying:
āStupid Germanā
MCI WILL BE STARTING THE GEL: He got his gel, give him time, he needs his second injection of test from his doctor, this is not voodoo or magic, it is hormones. It is going to take about 3 weeks to a month for full results, not a day, not a week, he has to get his levels stable, and you all will have your answers to THIS discussion rather quickly. So far MCI reported what I told him, his response to test was exactly as I predicted it would be, improved energy, but not much else, he requires 1 month of injections and gel use. I think in a couple weeks over that period we will here some very exciting progress from him, but me personally, always has taken 3 weeks for full results of DHT. DHT has to build up, and in MCIās case, he just started test enanthate, that has to build up, that alone takes weeks to work in normal guys.
JustQuitDut,
Everyday Injections? this is not bad for the body gets so many needles?
injections are on the thighs?
is very difficult to apply the shoulders or buttocks without help from someone.
Iāve done testosterone cycle for lean mass gains and was terrified of doing something stupid.
[Size=4]5 alpha victim: I HAVE DONATED!
pvdl: me too
5 alpha victim: YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING TO HELP ANYONE!!! STUPID GERMAN!!![/size]
If you inject testosterone and respond by building muscle, why do you need Andractim? What happened sexually when you injected testosterone? As for daily injections, as long as done right they are fine. Ultimately it would be nice to migrate to a long acting ester, but I'll wait a month before trying. It just won't have the same stability as this I don't think.I used testosterone 10 years ago for 2 months, before using finasteride. currently my testosterone is good, at the peak of the range. I gain a lot muscle and lose fat.
have you done this under supervision of a doctor? if yes, what did the doctor say? I would imagine endos who help with the transitions are the ones most familiar with what finasteride can do on the male body
Giving people fin. is pharma homicide. Book your appointment at Baylor now.
Beat that puss up Tumble! 
Awesome that you have noticed obvious improvements with armidex. We canāt say that this is āproof beyond a reasonable doubtā but itās good news. Iām looking forward to hearing more about peopleās experiences attempting to reduce estrogen on a nureosterdioal level and increasing 5 alpha reductase activity.
At least that post was kinda funny.
Thanks for your donation.
But seriously It is good to know germany printed enough money for you to have some to donate.
LOL 5 alpha, I was going to post a picture of an internet troll, but I didnāt want to make the thread too crazy.
Let me be clear to everyone, I SUPPORT MEW, what he is doing is great, we must support him and the foundation, it's just, in the meantime, we must help resolve this. We should be continuously conducting our own research and studies to solve PFS for each other and everyone. I hope my protocol continues long term, but trying to help each other and ourselves doesn't mean we aren't helping the foundation. Some of us don't have much time, I am 34 (soon to be 35), the hell if I am going to wait even another day for anything. There won't be any life left to live if I wait around, that being said, we should try to start posting at solvepfs, the site is dedicated to solving PFS. Let's try to slowly migrate our posting there (as Mew will eventually close this thread). I am sure Mew HATES me, but we just have different perspectives, I support him, I just am not sitting around waiting for things, I don't have the time.
I got this far in 6 months, anyone can do it, we have to combine our resources and continue to solve this. I have a feeling if done right, most guys here will do really well on test and DHT gel.
PVDL: What is your answer for how I have reversed 90% of PFS with testosterone and Andractim Gel, and Dr Goldstein has in many guys with the same type of therapy? What is your answer for me and all of them? Am I lying and they are all lying too? Just curious, you never quite answered that.
I just don't think I could make it living with PFS long term without it staying in reverse, so let me make that clear. Not everyone has to follow my path, I just can't go on without having pfs in reverse. Many feel the same way, so while we support the studies and even I plan to participate, we have to keep ourselves alive long enough for them to conclude and do something.LOL. Yeah I think the level of craziness is enough. Agreed that this should continue on at solve PFS with hopefully only the people on this thread who are intrested in trying these or at least some of these ideas.
Yea man, if this protocol fails, I am not giving up, gotta find a long term way to live with pfs stable, if this works, it means something, itās working. So we have to find a way to make it work long term and for everyone. We wonāt survive long enough for the studies to finish if we donāt continue to fight our own battles against this.
PVDL, I hear you are flying out to do the study at Baylor, thatās great, please understand I support the studies. I just personally have to help myself and am documenting it here to help others. We have to work as a group to hit this at all angles. I will go to the study too, Iāll do everything I can, just have to do something in the meantime. We should stop this fighting, we need to support each other at every approach to fighting this.
Are enough people flying to do the Baylor study?