I’ve been open from the start that i have sexual side effects only and no mental side effects, For the past year ive tried to llive a normal life at 25 years old.
My hairloss problem hasn’t changed. Its still a problem that im reminded off every day i look in the mirror. This is why i took that damned drug in the first place. My desperation to stop it hasn’t changed.
Yes, PFS is on my mind almost every minute of the day and that is my first priority but the hairloss is still a huge thorn in the side, too. I make no bones about that.
At the end of the day its a rather untenable position.
Personally, although I will never do anything to try to thwart my hair loss again (as I’ve paid an incredibly steep price for that vanity- as has everyone on here), I’m in Colin’s camp of still caring about it. It doesn’t sting as bad, but only b/c I have another huge fish to fry. But it’s still my hair, falling away slowly, and I’d really prefer to keep it nature played out that way (but not for any other reason, like other hair retention tactic).
Colin- fwiw, before I really clued in to the link between my ED and Propecia (in my years of denial as to what was happening), I tried the laser comb. Who knows whether it worked or not though. I’m not bald, and my hair is thinner than it used to be and gets thinner all the time, but maybe I’d have way less without the comb use? Who knows. I do know that it has been over 10 years since I started noticing the thinning, and I still have an acceptable head of hair. Maybe that is more Propecia related than anything else- who knows.
Also, please let us know what you learn from Professor Bouloux.
Oscar- you have a great theory going with your new thread and your knowledge is very admirable, but as an impartial bystander, I’m going to just say that you do sound a bit crazed in your “attack” on Colin. Let’s just all try our best to keep the vitreole at bay- would be so much more productive.
I must confess that I’m the same. The hairloss was a troubling factor pre-fin which affected my self worth (i know, i shouldn’t have let it bother me so much). PFS comes with its own mental devastation that, coupled with the continuing hair loss, is really knocking the shit out of my spirit. Ideally I’d like to address both problems but my health/well-being will always come first.
It is normal for men to lose their hair; it’s not like when a woman loses her hair - from a societal standpoint it’s deemed completely unacceptable and intolerable. If you are decent looking man with a head for full of hair, you are still going to be a decent looking man without hair. If you are a super successful bald man you can still get on the cover of GQ; and, women will be unperturbed by the fact that you are a little sparse up top. The real tragedy with propecia victims is that people have had their health decimated over hair. In the case of severe cystic acne, people are dealing with the potential for disfiguring acne scars; and there are poor souls out there who have lost their colons in the pursuit.
Good point for Oscar. The problem is that Colin is misunderstanding the role of cortisol and thyroid hormones in PFS. There are lots of people on this board whose cortisol and thyroid are fine (i.e. all those that have good energy, mental focus, etc…). Furthermore, there is no evidence of people that were cured solely by addressing cortisol and thyroid; they had to address their sex hormones or their growth hormone too (Dury, JN, ithappens). That’s because, if your cortisol and thyroid are being treated and kept high (and they must be high, and not just in the range), then you are guaranteed, according to Chilln’s theory, that treating your sex hormones (or growth hormone) will cure you. On the other hand, if you treat your sex hormones with, for example, clomid or TRT, and you still have ED despite good hormonal levels (there are a lot of examples on this board), then it’s because your cortisol OR your thyroid are low – again, according to Chilln. BTW, can you please provide a link that shows that kazman has good adrenal functions? – in particular, that he has high cortisol and also high thyroid hormones. Thanks
The approach we use must be scientific. Finding patterns in recoveries, such as “in some recoveries, adrenal and thyroid issues have been addressed” is scientific. If, by scientific, you mean references to papers, then it means that you trust scientific papers, such as then ones that claim that finasteride is safe. Be aware, also, that the subjects of most endocrinology papers are “healthy males”. Therefore, their content cannot be applied to us. Don’t misunderstand me: I’m not against the use of scientific papers. But we should also consider other scientific approaches, such as finding patterns in recoveries, collecting responses to treatments, etc…
This is because you haven’t read what Chilln writes. The DHT receptors of hair follicles can be “blocked” by progesterone but not by estrogen. On the other hand, the DHT receptors for libido can be blocked by estrogen. Therefore, if you lose hair like crazy and still have low libido, then your progesterone is super low and your estrogen is high, and your free T is certainly in range. If, on the other hand, you don’t lose hair and don’t have libido, then your free T is certainly low (you may also have high estrogen).
You can’t contradict a theory just by saying that it is not legitimate because it doesn’t reference any paper. You are behaving just like the Church towards Galileo Galilei, who was trying to convince them to use the telescope to see Jupiter’s moons, and they refused to do so because it didn’t make sense theologically. If you want to prove that this theory is wrong, try to find a more convincing argument, such as a counter example, i.e. a person with good cortisol levels, good thyroid hormones, good sex hormones, but still low libido (see my post on page 2 of this thread).
I completely agree that your sex hormones may need addressed too. I don’t misunderstand anything, I think there’s more to it than simple cortisol optimisation but ive no doubt it will help if someone has proved to be have developed adrenal defeciency which appears to be the case for most people.
I reckon your first step is ensuring you testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, DHT etc levels are all in tact and then look at thyroids, then cortisol etc. They are all interconnected, ultimately we need to check all boxes. When one has got perfect T/E levels aswell as perfect adrenals and thyroids then maybe they can afford to look at other things but almost everyone on here will have some sort of endoctrine problem indicator from what i see.
You couldnt be more wrong. There is no basis for this theory anywhere - not in text books, not in research papers, not from any academic, not from any doctor. Chilln has just pulled it out of thin air. It is up to him (or you) to provide some evidence. If we can just suggest anything as a legitimate theory then why cant I just say: “this has all been caused by the fairies at the bottom of the garden”.
Let me make this point very clear: This theory has no basis in medicine or science whatsoever. Thats my counter-argument. In reality, this theory is the equivilant of saying that the sun goes round the earth.
Because this theory has no basis it creates a culture whereby people think they can type anything they like as long as it ‘sounds good’ all WITHOUT DOING THE TINIEST BIT OF RESEARCH:
A MASSIVE insult to everyone (including yourself?) with mental side-effects - your totally clueless as to what has altered peoples mental states.
??? (ps. even chilln doesnt mention growth hormone)
???
agreed: ithappens(GHB) Drury(clomid)
??? (ps. Theres no such thing as a ‘DHT receptor’ only androgen receptors.)
??? So the reason for low libido has been discovered now???
And you cant claim a theory can possibly be correct without ANY sources ~ imean, surely there must be something somewhere that just slightly supports your ideas…
[Size=4]just post a source that supports anything about how cortisol might help us - or shut up. ANYTHING PLEASE!!![/size]
Consult that chart i keep posting and you’ll see exactly what he means.
Chillin clearly stated recently that the exact method his uses (preg and then T3 supplementation where necessary incrementally) is his own. The basis is one the profoud importance of progesterone etc on other sex hormones. The actual concept of using pregnenolone generally is based on what the above quote of Dr Crisler’s.
Anyway, theory is one thing, if its helping in practice, THAT’s the important thing. Worth a try considering a bit of preg cream shows no risks of any sides - its worth a try without a doubt.
I have listened to it. After half way through he starts talking about the post-finasteride syndrome. He does not mention preg, prog or cortisol as a treatment. This is despite the topic of the radio show being on the very topic of pregenalone - therefore this is not a source that supports your claims but rather detracts from it.
You cannot post anything that supports why ‘boosting preg/prog/cortisol production lines’ might help us because no such evidence exists.
(of course i mean people in our situation SPECIFICALLY, other than the fact that clearly humans need a healthy level of all hormones generally).
I dont mean to be rude Colin, m_81, or anyone else but I am just in a permanent bad mood… and when I discuss this with you lot its a bit like banging my head against a brick wall - so it really doesnt help.
Well for someone in a permanent bad mood that made me laugh. I got a laser helmet today by the way. Yes that whole thing is secondary but i like to remain positive that i can recover from this shit so i try maintain a normal life and that involves my continued fight against agressive hairloss at 25 years old.
Anyway, back on topic
I think that’s a ridiculous conclusion to be honest. He doesn’t speak about any potential treatments.
I think you said it yourself though - humans need a healthy level of hormones. So many people on here simply dont have that. Even if optimisation of this only helps some to a certain degree, that is something i guess.
Right now there isn’t really any specific tailor made treatments in terms of hormonal optimisation we are usually trying to normalise our hormones in ways anyone with a hormonal imbalance would in the hope this will atleast help our bodies recover.
So yes, its generic and unspecific but that doesn’t detract from its utility. I reckon PFS has got many facets to it which is why so many people have so many different bloods, so many different symptoms and varying degrees of severity. I can also guarantee that any “cure” won’t be an all-encompassing one. Even if we all have the same root cause we clearly have different chain reactions therefrom. Those need treated individually.
Preg and Fin were not mentioned together because the guy on the radio quickly changed the subject…Since PFS and fin isnt a known topic to pretty much anyone except those who have it, the audience would probably be clueless as to what the hell they were talking about…
I really believe Dr C’s “restart protocols” are first base in PFS treatment. Get sex hormones in balance. Then if there is issue with cortisol etc, boost it too so you can maintain your newly redressed levels. Easy in theory, eh I don’t see the problem with experimenting with preg or hydrocortisone - if it works then happy days. up to 40mg of HC each day doesn’t suppress your system, so its worth trying 10 or 20mg ED to see how you respond.
Yea im not sure why he does a restart, but if it hasn’t worked for some he wouldnt do it thought you know? So it must have helped some patients.
I took as much as 30 mg per day and felt nothing… along with preg… My cortisol is in the gutter… My energy is a little better, but I always thought I had decent energy before taking HC… So now im just taking 15mg, and going to keep decreasing till i’m at zero. Im going to see Crisler in a month or so id like to be on nothing prior to seeing him. Its weird because Bostonusa said he felt great on HC in every aspect except sexually, which is strange to me as to why I do not…
Maybe you needed higher doses. That said, Dr C said he’s never had to go higher that 30mg.
His protocols have definately helped plenty of people according to him. Restart is kind of a strong word, most of the protocols are like milder PCT’s such as a SERM and an AI.
It could be. Ive never seen someone with a 4 point saliva reading like mine before. Its horrendous, and its incredible that I feel as good as I feel. It actually doesnt even make any sense… If you look at those readings youd think i were bed ridden and couldnt move… It only takes me 10 minutes to get out of bed in the morning usually only…And thats for work… If I were getting up on a weekend with 7-8 hours of sleep I get right up… strangest shit i’ve ever heard…
I’m kinda the same. I have low aldosterone (200pmol!!) but yet no salf cravings or anything. Low morning cortisol and low ACTH (16) but yet i feel the same as i’ve always felt bar sexually. That’s why im concentrating on my sex hormones first and foremost.
Its not impossible that we simply have very low natural levels…
Interesting, I haven’t gotten that tested… Do you have low or high blood pressure? Mine is 118 over something, which was great…I don’t think I have salt cravings…I used to eat a lot of ramen noodles prior to fin, and those things are loaded with salt… Now I dont eat them so much, or salt in general for that matter…
Dr C always says he doesn’t treat the person on paper. Often times using HC or Preg is a “clinical judgement” not based on labs. Good doctors treat the patients in line with symptoms. So i guess if you are satisifed that your adrenals are ok (esp since you’ve tried HC and Preg already) then maybe they are.
Chillin does suggest trying T3 alongside the preg if don’t seem to respond to it. Dr C said your best time of absoption is right after a shower (apply it right after) and in the morning.
Yes they are tabs, and I know about taking t3, but I only have Armour at home to take, but… I suspect I have high RT3 as well, which my doc wont test… hence, why i’m going to see CRisler, because thats someone he will actually test. My thyroid hormones along with ft3 is low as well so its a matter of addressing them as well. My doc isnt as knowledgeable so i’m switching… Im going to need a T boast as well I think…
I don’t see the problem with experimenting with preg or hydrocortisone - if it works then happy days. up to 40mg of HC each day doesn’t suppress your system, so its worth trying 10 or 20mg ED to see how you respond.