hi, not sure why my posts are being ignored. can you please tell me how you know you have this bacteria? trust me man… i’ve been on the same diet as you. for close to 3 years, i know how effective it is. i’m not one of these people trying to deny what you are saying, i’m trying to understand where you are getting this information from. if this IS a bacteria problem, there are many effective ways to treat bacteria problems and very potent supplements and vitamins that can help with it. however, it is still my belief at this time that these types of problems are due to insulin issues.
Hi Bryce
Your posts are not being ignored, they have already been answered. I did a Comprehensive Parasitology with Genova Diagnostics and it revealed the highest level that can be recorded of Citrobacter braakii, Citrobacter freundii and Klebsiella oxytoca. All of these reside in the gut of healthy humans, but at this level they are deemed pathogens and must be killed off and reduced to safe levels. As a result of these pathogens my E.coli was very very low. E.coli resides in the gut of healthy humans too by the way, and you should have adequate levels. My nutritionist wasn’t worried about the low E.coli though because she said that this will rise naturally when we’ve sorted out the pathogens. I said before but i will say it again, these pathogens are at such high levels and the gut wall very damaged by the drug that they are free roaming around the body to a greater or lesser extent. The resultant syndrome is CFS, as the pathogens inhabit and compromise all key organs of the body.
While you may have some ‘scientific’ evidence about your insulin theory, the best evidence should be in recovering or recovery.
Cheers
Chi
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I should point out by the way, I didn’t have any parasites or candida.
That was in reference to this post !
I never mentioned parasites, this person did. Pathogens and parasites are different.
Thank you Chi for the post. Sorry, I should have gone through later posts. I was reading about some of the pathogens you mentioned and found some things of interest. First, this:
Surprisingly, this infectious microbe in humans plays a positive role in the environment. C. freundii is responsible for reducing nitrate to nitrite in the environment [3]. This crucial conversion is an important stage in the nitrogen cycle. And recycling nitrogen is very essential because the earth’s atmosphere is about 85% nitrogen [3]. Therefore, due to its important contribution to the environment is another motivation for sequencing the genome of C. freundii.
Nitrite and nitrate were 2 things that I extensively researched in the past because they are involved in the nitric oxide cycle in the body. Nitric oxide = make your penis hard. This is definetely a system that is having issues… I think this is pretty interesting you have this here.
This was also pretty interesting:
The biliary tract is the most common site of infection by the C. freundii bacilli [9].
I knew that our bile tracks could be messed up based on how sometimes protein did not always agree with me.
Thank you man for the info. I’ll look more into those microbes.
chi… any recommendations for a natural antibiotic for this? i have an anti fungal complex… i just added in high potency oil of oregeno which ill be taking 3x a day and i have grapefruit seed extract pills on the way. anthing u know that’d effective for sure for his outside of diet?(im all ready on this diet) there is without a doubt a bacteria aspect to this based on the massive fungal infections people get… im getting this at all angles. ill let u know how i do.
I did a stool test today. It wasn’t a comprehensive one like you did and I don’t believe the pathogens you mentioned were tested. For parasites, the result is “absent”, so I’m okay, but for yeast, it says “few”. Any idea what it means, Chi, or anyone else?
Hi Chi,
I am really happy for you and really excited to read your post. I have been checking this forum for a very long time. Your post encouraged me to join the forum and gave me a lot of hope. I really don’t know what the real root cause of PFS is, and I don’t want to waste time to go into endless discussions regarding the root cause. Because I know nobody even scientific community does not know anything about it. But I know since PFS I have gut problems. I think everybody on this forum has some sort of gut problem and that’s why everybody has vitamins and minerals deficiency. It is because our gut does not work properly and cannot absorb necessary vitamins and minerals. That is a fact that we have gut problem and it makes sense to address that.
Chi, I am ready to take your regimen and report my results here to everyone. I am sure addressing my gut problem will address a lot of problems. Please post your recovery regimen. There are a lot of people including myself who want to know your regimen and ready to start doing it right away. Just imagine how awesome it is to be in the position you are right now and how awesome that would be if you could help even one person like yourself.
I am eagerly looking forward to see your exact regimen and recovery path. Thanks a lot for coming back and reporting your recovery.
Why
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Hi Livingdead
It shows the same on my comprehensive parasitology - “absent” for parasites. I would do the comprehensive one when you get chance.
Hi Bryce
I also took oil of oregano, but you need the P73 version and it’s quite expensive. I only did one bottle and felt it was quite good for pathogens in the brain & lungs.
Cheers
Chi
Hi Why
Thanks your post! You are already half way there if you realise the things you say. I’ve already detailed so much on my thread regarding regimen. It is really not rocket science - but you have to persist with the following list of things:
[] Focus on tackling root causes as described previously
[] Hot water with lemon and celtic sea salt on waking, let it rest in your stomach for a good hour before eating
[] Herbal mixtures of wormwood, swedish bitters, liquourice, black walnut, clove, bearberry etc. before eating morning and before bed at night
[] Healthy eating - PLENTY of vegetables, no carb, only organic and pasture fed meats if possible, eat the some meat fats because it will give you some energy - but recognise that pathogens will like some of the meats - listen to your body and observe how you feel in the hours and days after eating certain foods. Sometimes reaction fast sometimes slow, depends on so many variables
[] Plenty of digestive enzymes
[] Warm (i preferred warm/hot) distilled water or spring water enemas morning and night for days on end - need to get the colon flushed free of pathogens and clear so it can heal
[] Plenty of exercise - i did so much running, about 25k a week split 5k, 5k, 5k, 10k at weekends
[] Freezing cold showers - hot water enhances the damaging effects of chlorine and chemicals in household water systems and is terrible for the gut and lungs
[] Avoiding this forum and don’t read any BS that you can’t recover or it’s permanent etc. etc. Don’t under-estimate the power of your mind to hold you back with depressed thoughts etc.
[] Stop wearing deoderant (so many chemicals), i replaced all body and hair washes with natural ones. Deodorant is not necessary, let your body breathe and sweat naturally. I never cared if i smelt bad - number 1 priority was to recover
[] Nettle leaf tea, pau d’arco tea
[] Spend your time READING BOOKS about healthy stuff (internet is too stimulating, especially at night can disturb melotonin production). There are 1000s of books to read, but key ones would be:
Dr Wilson’s 21st century stress syndrome a la Adrenal Fatigue
Beat Candida through Diet (it’s not candida but a great book nonetheless)
Primal Body Primal Mind
Nourishing Traditions
The Effortless Sleep Method
Fasting and Eating for health
The 4 hour body if you want a laugh
Yoga books
plus many many more… all so fascinating and you can learn so much by reading them
The aim is to be doing as many of these things as possible at the same time - each time you fall of the wagon or cannot keep everything up, take stock and just make sure you bring everything back online again. If you can implement and maintain core things like running, enemas and diet you should make strides, all the other stuff just accelerates the process. Don’t deprive yourself completely of snacks - but keep it very healthy and if you think something is not agreeing with you cut it out. Don’t consume milk or yoghurt. Kefir was also hit and miss for me. You WILL lose weight. I went from 75kg before propecia down to 60kg at my lowest. At 60kg last June I still felt awful though and was extremely skinny and under nourished, I didn’t have everything right at that point. I simply can’t write everything and have probably forgot key things. The regime was not totally fixed and I did sometimes break the strict regime by eating a pizza or something - but it was only ever broken knowing that it would be detrimental to my recovery progress. I just had to do it occasionally to give myself a break. I then spent several days working very hard to get my body back on track. The key thing is to make time for yourself to do the above - I felt better getting up between 5:30am and 6:30am, which gave me time in the morning to follow a set regime. This is also good for sleep the following night if you don’t rest or lay down during the day.
Hope this helps, sorry it’s a bit wordy.
Chi
I will do the comprehensive test if I can find a clinic here that will perform it.
But what about yeast? Did you have presence of yeast in your stool? I wouldn’t be surprised if I had a systemic yeast infection because I also had a genital yeast infection that wouldn’t go away (it only cleared up recently when my skin became very dry, but I can still feel it sometimes). This morning I did a yeast infection home test where you spit in a glass of water and see what happens and I had all the signs of yeast infection.
Maybe I need to get some blood test to confirm it.
So normal oregano oil is completely worthless for us? I didn’t open my bottle yet and maybe I can still return it. I’ll keep it if you say it’s just not as effective as the P73 but still have an effect.
I bought something today that’s called crucifixion thorn. It’s supposed to be good for parasites, yeast and the likes. Did you try it, Chi?
For those interested, I believe you can use baking soda as deodorant and it’s apparently pretty effective too.
I just read the P73 version was the best one, had higher concentrations of the active ingredient or something. Don’t bank on it to give you any noticeable improvement in isolation. Not heard of that other product and with a name like that I wouldn’t want to go near it. With any new product I’d always search the internet for reports of people having problems before taking it
Chi, thanks a lot for posting your recovery path. I have a few questions:
How to get plenty of digestive enzymes?
Did you take any medication?
What kind of test do I need to do to find out about these bacteria or other problems?
I feel like there is some sort of malabsorption going on and that’s why I do not get necessary nutrition. What do you think? Any advice?
What do you think about water fasting for a long time (2 weeks like what cduts recommends)? Did you fast at any point? Do you think that helped with your recovery?
Actually, crucifixion thorn, known as chaparro amargo in spanish, is used in traditional Mexican medicine. I got mine from an herbalist and it’s just pieces of wood that you use to make tea, but I saw they also sale capsule of it.
Hi Why
I’ll answer those questions:
How to get plenty of digestive enzymes?
Buy them from a shop or the internet. You need to try different ones out though and see what works for you. The ones i settled on were Viridian Digstive Aid. Viridian products do not have any stearic acid or magnesium stearate and are made of quality and natural ingredients (including a natural base for the capsule). They were about £16 for 90 and i’d finish the bottle within about 3 days (so 30 a day). I would not always buy them due to the expense, but went through phases and particularly when I was pushing for progress.
Did you take any medication?
No. I refuse to take anything manufactured by Western medicine ever again if I can avoid it. I only consumed natural supplements - and for a long time I did not even do that.
What kind of test do I need to do to find out about these bacteria or other problems?
Comprehensive Parasitology - You provide stool samples and they check for pathogens, parasites, candida among other problems.
I feel like there is some sort of malabsorption going on and that’s why I do not get necessary nutrition. What do you think? Any advice?
I completely agree, I felt the same. There are 2 factors at play:
- With PFS you do have leaky gut to a greater or lesser extent
- Pathogens are fuel hungry and they will burn through the nutrients you ingest
Focus should be on healing the gut/colon while killing off and reducing pathogens - while doing lots of other healthy things.
What do you think about water fasting for a long time (2 weeks like what cduts recommends)? Did you fast at any point? Do you think that helped with your recovery?
I did a 3 day water fast beginning of last year. I think this can help people with PFS definitely - read Joel Fuhrman’s books, very interesting. However, I don’t think water fasting is necessary to recover. Colon cleansing via enemas is a much faster root to cleansing the gut and liver. That said, cdnuts healthy eating and fasting is absolutely commendable and sets a benchmark in that regard.
Just out of curiosity i wandered over to JN’s thread. Quite a heated thread - but I firmly put myself in JN’s camp. He even sites doing a DNA parasitology test for pathogens! He is right that the presence of pathogens perpetuates the CFS (PFS). I am sorry to throw this into the pot - but he is also right that the research is misguided and won’t yield the results many of you desperately seek. There is no magic bullet at the end of that tunnel. You might find abnormalities with the androgen receptor, but that’s just one implication of a whole cascade of problems upstream, stemming from opportunistic pathogens as a root cause. Once the root cause is removed, everything will return to normal. I would hope that our 2 stories (+ cdnuts story, + ihatepropecia story) makes some of you start to realise this and that it gets you on the right path to recover and move on with normal healthy lives in the ways that we have.
At some point I want to leave this forum indefinitely and put this whole thing behind me, close the lid on it. I would say as the days pass the 1% is not really 1%, but 0%. I am recovered and I’d like to move on with my life. I’ll come back and make a big post in the recovery section soon. I might get a blood test beforehand just out of curiosity to see what my testosterone levels are and to post the results along side my recovery post. My T levels were out of range low the first test i did within 6 months of crashing and the last test i took at 1 year was about 13/14 (scale was 11-30 or something), which was still very very low. It would be reassuring to see it have risen well into the 20’s - if it hasn’t perhaps it was always low. Let’s see.
Catch you all later
Chi
All very well, but JN hasn’t recovered (despite what some who’d like to believe otherwise for their own arguments think) and ihatepropecia still has brain fog, which was his main complaint to begin with not sexual sides. I agree these methods should be tried by everyone if they help symptoms, but not that they are solving the underlying problem.
btw, what do you replace for bread?
Hi Luckfax
The very fact that you ask me this question makes me understand why you still have PFS. Bread is the first thing that went for me and that was around 2 years ago. You can’t look to replace something like that one for one. The strategy should be a complete elimination of all carbs to be honest. You then need to increase portions of vegetables to huge sizes and consume quality meat, preferably with fats. Soups were dead easy and can be stored up for days - soup is the perfect substance to be honest. You will lose weight. Carbs can be re-introduced once the gut has been healed sufficiently to handle it.
I’m pretty sure from what i have read of ihatepropecia and JN that they are recovered, albeit from some very minor lingering issues. Furthermore ihatepropecia did have significant sexual issues and those are well documented in his posts - which he states returned to normal after healing the gut. From one man to another please try to understand that you are wrong in your beliefs. I am genuinely telling you, in as best a way i can with words, this does come back to pathogens. I know it’s hard to fathom but there is evidence mounting now from real recoveries - this isn’t just about doing healthy things making me or those guys feel better - this is normality returning to those that tackle this angle. I am a really normal and nice guy, i wouldn’t try to mislead you in any way. I’m not hear plugging anything and am reaching out to you to tell you the truth, even though you don’t want to listen to it - even from people that have recovered! I also wholeheartedly believe it doesn’t matter how bad you got hit, or how long you have suffered, the same path leads to recovery for everyone, that includes you. It’s up to you whether you chose to dig your heals in the ground due to some misconception about what this is really all about, or free your mind and try it, get tested, and start tackling the problem head on.
I’m not being harsh contrary to what some might say. This is very much a cruel to be kind scenario!
Chi
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