Chi's Member Story & Progress

General Discussion
#261

SA, I apologise for any perceived attitude. I was actually saying I don’t mind if you laugh at me about the PowerPlate - of course it’s preposterous! My comments are really targeted at mods for the manipulation of this forum to defend/protect a belief. E.g. censoring certain words. Which I believe is not done in the best interests of the community.

I’ll head off for a while - maybe you don’t want me back anymore, but I remain a good guy, I don’t have attitude. I guess i’ve just been overzealous in my approach because I feel passionately that I could help. One of the forum members has contacted me and wants to chat on Skype. So i will follow things through with him outside the forum and pop back from time to time.

Take care

Chi

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#262

Hi Chi,

Weren’t you one of the guys involved in the initial round of penile skin biopsies?

If so, then your results - like the others - would have revealed an abnormality with the AR.

It would be interesting to see what a second biopsy would reveal. Perhaps said abnormality may have been positively altered as a result of your protocol.

You could prove to be an interesting test subject if you genuinely feel that you have recovered.

Might want to get in touch with Awor. Doing so could be beneficial to others

#263

No hard feelings Chi. I’m glad you recovered and I’m sure others can benefit from some of your recovery methods. But before criticizing the moderators, you should understand why they moderate the way they do.

Small but very shady nutraceutical companies do, in fact, use this forum to shill their companies’ products. Big Softie was one: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1286&start=200#p78962

There were several other known frauds, and surely many unknown. If it weren’t for careful moderating, there would be even more “recovery” threads linking to worthless $80 supplements that many here would undoubtedly buy. It’s not always easy to distinguish the shills claiming recovery from a “specially formulated” supplement from the legit but overly-excited sufferers claiming recovery from a “specially formulated” supplement. When a member claims recovery from taking “tons” of digestive enzymes, and links to a $100 bottle brand in his “recovery” thread, red flags should be raised–especially if his more severe symptom was “intermittent anal itch.”

The administrators’ hindering the ability of people trying to make money off our suffering is in the best interest of this community. Spammers and shills might not seem like a big deal to regular members, but they can cause a headache for the administrators.

And the machinations of nutraceutical companies aren’t the only ones we have to worry about: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8841#p79640

#264

I find your line of thinking to be bizarre and nonsensical despite the fact that you feel recovered … “that science stuff” ??? Seriously?

Oh well. I hope you stay feeling well despite this, but I would be sincerely worried for our cause if people started thinking like you do. It defies logic to think that legitimate scientific research is a waste.

Also, to say they Awor and Mew “are not actually doing much for our community” is completely fucking bogus. They have sacrificed a great deal to help the community. I know this for a fact.

#265

Chi - thanks for your detailed response to my points. While I don’t agree with the bacteria as a root cause of PFS angle, I think adopting some of your methodology can only help most of us. There have recently been treatment approaches which share similarities and seem to have yielded decent success among many members such as cdnuts recovery and the methylation thread posting.php?mode=reply&f=3&t=5042 (the latter isn’t entirely dissimilar to yours) so it would appear a healthier and more holistic approach is one most should aspire to. At least we can put to bed the idea that this can be solved by throwing TRT, clomid or other pharma hormone manipulators at it.

While I support the research, I am also becoming disillusioned with the glacial pace (the first biopsies were nearly 3 years ago) and secrecy surrounding it and less convinced it will yield any major outcome in the next few years. Not to mention the lawsuits are taking forever too. I think there is some merit in what costa says about the answer coming from us victims trying stuff on our own and narrowing it down.

#266

i agree. i think the underlying cause is actually some form of finasteride induced insulin resistance that has the same effects, but different causes as regular insulin resistance that may be more difficult to detect. i have a research study or two that i’ve found that talks about how finasteride has a negative effect on chromium levels and does effect insulin in an interesting way. i think Chi actually recovered because he went no carb and gave his body a chance to reset all the insulin issues. no carbs = no insulin being released = a chance for the body to chill out from insulin.

yeast, bacteria, fungus, all that stuff proliferates with people who have insulin issues. but glucose doesn’t seem to be too high in people’s blood I believe, so i’m not sure what is happening exactly. you can see how people with diabetes don’t respond to viagra, have yeast issues, vision problems, teeth problems, libido issues, sounds familiar?

check out carb backloading… probably the most amazing thing for insulin issues ever derived. it’s in cdnuts recovery thread.

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#267

I appreciate it’s quite hard to fathom, but you need to realise this is not some new bacteria that came from the outside world and started roaming in your body. It’s your own healthy gut bacteria - which can also be known as opportunistic pathogens. Look up Citrobacter Freundlii and Citrobacter Klebsiella. These are already meant to be in your gut, it’s so complex and powerful down there, this is why humans are so resilient and can recover from all sorts of terrible illness - due to the powerful organisms that lie within the body, mostly in the gut. I think you will all know Hippocrates, the great Greek Physician who is most known for his contribution to health and medicine. He stated that all disease begins (and ends) in the gut. It is so incredibly important - in ancient times they even used to believe the brain was in the gut! Well in our case this opportunistic normal human body bacteria became pathogens. They had an opportunity to grow to unprecedented levels when the immune system was suppressed and the gut wall damaged. What results is CFS. It’s really not more complex than that. If you check all your symptoms one by one, you will find evidence to link them all back to CFS and pathogens. Don’t ignore it!

By the way on the weight front:

Before propecia 75kg
Lowest during ordeal 60kg
Now 68kg

I am skinnier than I was. Much more lean, less fat. I would like to get back over 70kg again but carbs form a much lesser part of my diet than they used to. For instance I don’t eat much bread now.

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#268

Chi, they also use to believe the earth was flat.

Also use some logic, forget your own individual PFS onset, but remember the guy who takes 1mg pill, dick goes numb within hours, within a day legs get skinny, skin thins, veins emerge, penis curves to the left, ringing in the ears, tremor/dizzyness occurs, face and forehead get red and dry. You honestly think that for this guy, a true account, gut bacteria invaded? Come on, don’t you see the insidious nature. Then my account, all this happened to me after 9 years taking propecia, within days after stopping the drug.

#269

My friend it doesnt work like that exactly. The symptoms you describe happen after the crash where the body suffers from hormonal imbalance. Its like hormones lose the effect on the body. As if the body goes in safe mode or sth to prevent further damage.
These did not happen to anyone before the crash, at least in the detrimental effect you describe.

#270

Costa- what are you talking about? I said the guy who crashes after 1mg and then this happens or the guy like me who takes it for 9 years and then crashes and this happens. Both follow crashes so I don’t know what your talking about

#271

Hi Finatruth

Can i make a couple of comments for your consideration. Post fin with some foods (e.g. certains types of chocolate) i only needed to put it in my mouth and my wrists would almost immediately react by going more skinny. Madness i know. That’s because these pathogens are riding around everywhere - when you put something in that it likes to feed on, it’s like a wild fire in the body. Due to being in the brain too, something bad ingested will immediately start the wild fire through the body. The wild fire is ignited in the brain (because the pathogens are here too) and so the brain reacts with a defense mechanism by shutting off non-essential hormones for life (like Testosterone). The signals can be instantaneous. The first time you crashed was the most drastic form of this scenario, because you went from not having pathogens in the body (normal) to being overloaded. It will vary significantly from person to person the way you react and if you have a crash or not, but what remains is that finasteride at some point (for many characterised as the point of cessation) created an environment allowing these opportunistic pathogens to thrive and transcend the gut wall. The ups and downs that occur thereafter are essentially miniature versions of the same thing, but on a much more depressed scale. I think the bit you may have overlooked is that it doesn’t matter how long you took it, that drug is potent and created an environment in the gut that enabled bacteria to grow out of control. It will vary significantly from person to person as to when this occurs considering the human variation in gut and immune health coupled with individual diet.

It doesn’t seem so crazy when you are out the other side. During my ordeal i was always open to what might help, so I think that separates us. I’m guessing you haven’t been tested? Do it and you might be surprised. What you want is a Comprehensive Parasitology. I had it with Genova Diagnostics - about £250.

Chi

#272

Chi, I’m not sure I can have the test done right now, but I’m willing to give this approach a try to see what it does for me. Can you tell us what we should do, apart from cutting all sugars and dairy products?

#273

Hi Livingdead

What you need to focus on is cleaning out of the colon while sending the right things down the other way in order to kill off pathogens in the body and heal the gut, while also supporting the adrenals and liver. It would also be my underlying assumption that you are also doing 100’s of other healthy things in the background not too dissimilar to the list I wrote around 1 year ago. The list of things you can do is endless. So, that’s the short hand version of what is required. In relation to the pathogens, without the test you won’t know however which pathogens to target and therefore which substances to use. It would be very interesting for someone to do the test to see if the same pathogens are picked up. It could be different ones given the variation in peoples conditions, some may only spread locally (i.e. to the penis), others can go around the entire body. The Comprehensive Parasitology makes recommendations for each pathogen found and splits it into 2 categories : Pharma Agents and Natural Agents and how powerful they would be in tackling the pathogen on a scale. It is quite interesting to see how some common antifungals would have been ineffective for 2 of my 3 pathogens picked up. My nutritionist gave me the option and of course I went natural. There was a base supplementary program using brands and things I had not heard of. I will need to speak to my nutritionist to see if I can openly list them here, furthermore as Second Amendment notes I don’t want to look like plugging a brand. I am (was) a genuine sufferer. A herbalist that worked closely with my nutritionist also sent me a potion that was made specifically to tackle these bacteria (£40).

While waiting to do the test I would recommend as follows:

Empty Stomach on waking

  1. Baseline support: Vitamin C only + maybe a clean multivit - best you can find and without stearic acid and magnesium stearate

  2. Small glass spring water in a blender with swedish bitters, wormwood, liquorice, black walnut, clove, adrenal support drops (Dr Wilson’s website sells them). You can alternate days with day 2 being simply spring water with celtic sea salt + lemon juice (from organic lemons). Day 2 will replenish your body with salts because you are using up salt like crazy with PFS, that’s where the cravings come from. The cravings for salt or sugar if you have noticed are a sure sign that you have pathogenic overload - can’t stop eating? That’s pathogens.

  3. Perform a warm distilled or spring water enema (you would not believe the toxic stuff that comes out - this alone will prove to you how bad what is sitting in your body on a daily basis).

Breakfast

Excellent diet (Meat + Veg only, try stick mostly with soup), plenty of Celtic Sea salt - you need a lot of salt. Keep breakfast non sugar, non carb. Only veg/meat

Lunch

Keep it very light. I started to eat just blanched almonds for lunch, small bag full. Almond skins weren’t agreeing with me.

Dinner

Same as breakfast

Evening

  1. If you get hungry just eat nuts or seeds that agree with you, or any other snack that doesn’t make you feel worse. Salty popcorn was hit and miss with me.

  2. Before bed do another potion as described at breakfast.

  3. Perform a warm distilled or spring water enema

In doing the above you should start to notice your urine will be like bright luminous green sometimes and a bit musty in smell. That’s pathogens being cleaned out. Important: With any potion that you decide to take for pathogens make sure you also supplement with Vitamin C on an irregular basis throughout the day. I was doing about 2-3mg of Vitamin C a day. If you don’t you won’t have any baseline support to offset the die off. The supplementary program my nutritionist put me on had support for the liver and gut as well, so I was quite well supported in that sense. Make sure you do the same. There is another supplement i used quite a bit and that was AdrenoMax, it gave me a welcome boost.

Hope this helps

Chi

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#274

chi,

what test did you get to prove you had this bacteria? and chi, can you please try out cab backloading? i think you will be surprised to find sugar is not your enemy when you prepare your body to use it in the right way.

#275

Well, I’m trying it, and will be checking if I can have the parasitology test done.

What about coffee and tea? They are useful when you’re doing intermittent fasting. Should they be avoided?

Also, one of the meals I have frequently is vegetables and eggs. Are eggs okay?

#276

Only drink spring water. I previously stated that Vita Coca was ok, but i later learned the only drink you can have is water. Tea and coffee are definite no no - you have a long way to go if you are asking these types of questions!! lol. I started eating a lot of eggs when I read tonnes on how hormones are manufactured from cholesterol. Don’t read anything that cholesterol is bad for you! Nonsense. Those are the words of my nutritionist - not mine! I did find that eggs were a bit border line with the pathogens though - in that i felt that the pathogens kind of liked them - but I continued to consume them because it was not full blown wild fire response and I weighed up the benefits of eggs. I mixed it up but some mornings I’d have a plain egg omelette (3/4 eggs). Other days i’d take a couple of boiled eggs in my bag. Found omelette to be the least hard on the body - make it light and fluffy with an electric whisk. Keep it organic and free range and chew properly down to liquid state! As an amendment to what I also stated one year ago I also had to cut out blueberries - didn’t realise again but the pathogens were loving them, holding PFS firmly in place. One by one removing these items leads to a healthy pace of recovery. If there are some foods that you crave, avoid them at all costs - or taper down eating them until not at all. That’s pathogens inside you craving fuel.

#277

ive never took the gut bacteria-fungal infection stuff serious before but am willing to give it a go,i will tell you about something that happened to me lately which has got me thinking,for the past few months i have had some seriously bad mouth ulcers and lumps that refuse to go away,anyway after seeing a doc about it a few weeks ago he put me on some anti fungal gel,daktarin i believe it was called,which can also be swallowed for gut infections,as i was applying it to my mouth i was obviously swallowing some,after a few days of using the gel i was getting rock hard nocternal erections,everytime i was waking up during the night my dick was hard,still no sensation in it but hard none the less,and i never get any kind of erection these days so it seems something was happening,i may get another tube of gel and see if it happens again…

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#278

I’ll have to cut them gradually because I’m really depending on them to function right now, but I’ll do it.

Thanks a lot, Chi!

#279

Livingdead, replace your tea and coffee with a teaspoon of good quality sea salt (preferably celtic sea salt or himalayan sea salt) in hot water (you can squeeze lemon in it too). If you read Dr Wilson’s adrenal fatigue book it recommends this - essential reading for a PFS sufferer. Sometimes i’d make a big bottle and take it to work, heat it up in a kettle during the day. This is something easy to start and cheap plus i’d consider that a giant step in the right direction. You’re not looking for a magic bullet that will sort everything out overnight, but 100’s of these type of things to underpin the overall strategy. Good Luck !

#280

Okay, I’ll try to find one of these salts.

Thanks, man.