Chi's Member Story & Progress

I regret to report that it has held, I’m really sorry. I am simply amazed after feeling completely back to normal over 1 week. It’s the best I’ve ever felt, complete normality. Anyway, obviously I am doing something very right, and after this my motivation is higher than ever. However, given that my reports might start to damage my credibility, I’m not returning til I’m done with this now, and it has held for 4 months. That threshold is there for good reason hey! I need to be honest with you here for my peace of mind.

Take care all

Bummer. But take it as a sign you’re capable of full recovery. Given how frequently you’ve been able to push yourself over that line lately I’d say you’ll be out of the woods within the year.

I’m doing better again, not recovered but 90-95%. I resorted back to my previous lifestyle before recovery (i.e. before i went mad eating all sorts of stuff and hitting my body hard to test everything) and things came back really very fast this time. Therefore, I wanted to list some things below, because these core aspects of my lifestyle clearly underpin and lay the foundation of health for me. After this, i’m then off for a very long time, but I wanted to post this here, because this could help some people and/or set them on a path to feeling better at the very least: (apologies some grammatical issues with past tenses etc., I wrote most of this while fully recovered!)

[] Substituted pasteurised milk for Organic Raw Milk
] Removed any grain fed meats, replacing only with free-range and pasture fed meats and organ meats - beef, turkey, chicken, pork, liver, kidney
[] Increased vegetable intake ALOT, opting for Organic where possible (tonnes of Broccoli, Kale, Beansprouts, Brussel Sprouts, Spinach, Carrots, Sweetcorn, Asparagus etc) steamed and with EVERY meal
] Replaced farmed supermarket fish with Wild Fish caught on line and pole
[] Eat always Meat or Fish + Vegetables only
] Replaced cereals (even the ones you might think are healthy like fruit & fibre, it’s not) with Rolled Oats for breakfast
[] Cut out fruit and fruit juices (full of natural sugar, very bad. Apart from Vita Coconut Juice - very good),
] For fruit, only ate a handful of berries for nutrients every now and then
[] Bought 5kg of Organic Almonds & 5kg of Organic Pumpkin seeds and later started eating mixed nuts including brazil nuts - by buying in bulk i could continually eat them (think removal of obstacles)
] Wash and skin (where possible, like carrots) thoroughly all vegetables before cooking - never did this before, but read there could be poisons in the skins because plants cannot run away from predators, this is how they defend themselves
[] Added Celtic Sea Salt to all lunch/dinner meals + in cooking
] Increased consumption of free range organic eggs, cholesterol is required for testosterone, in fact testosterone is made of cholesterol. Ate plenty of eggs, alternating raw milk+oats and eggs+rye bread for breakfast
[] Cut out ALL other breads - I lost 5kg within a month in doing so
] Cut out most carbs, apart from morning Rolled Oats
[] If you are struggling for lunch ideas - buy a pack or whole chicken - remember to eat the skin
] Increased healthy fats, like started to eat the fat attached to pork instead of cutting it off
[] Made soups from the left overs of the pasture fed meats and bones, plenty of Celtic Sea Salt
] Ate Organic Bio-live Yoghurt daily (Yeovalley brand), mainly when coming home from work before dinner with berries & almonds as a snack, sometimes mixed in the yoghurt - delicious. Later stopped this as I felt the dairy was holding me back and i was getting plenty through the raw milk

Other additional non food items that contribute:

[] I bought a Philips Go-lite as recommended by Tim Ferris - this i felt i needed to superficially pick my mood up, fantastic product I used every morning for 1 hour and also while exercising i had it on
] Started to go on sun beds occasionally - Before you think they are bad, they’re not, they are proven to be good for health in moderation. Vit D is produced in the skin when light shines on it, we don’t get Vit D from the sun, it’s something our bodies produce themselves. A tanning bed is something that will induce this reaction in the skin
[] Running - fundamental exercise when recovering from illness. I did alot of running since I felt able to, but tweaked the programme alot and in the end I run 5km on Wed and Friday, including interval sprints the whole distance with short breaks in between, always pushing my body as hard as i could go. On Sundays I did a long distance 10km. Built up to this optimal running programme, gradual process
] Ran in forests, near rivers, lakes - higher oxygen content areas
[] Plenty of yoga at home on my own mat (found this to be best - think remove obstacles like travelling to classes etc.), morning and night 20 minutes
] Forced all urine out before sleep, by directing shower head directly at top of penis until urine came out - sounds weird, sorry can’t elaborate more now
[] Started sleeping without a pillow - relaxes neck, opens airways
] Weight training, strict short routine (max 30 mins training time, short rests and do power sets). Mixed the frequency and timings but in the end settled on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays - see my thread for details, i included bench press, power snatches (excellent), pull ups and squats
[] 3 litres of fresh organic spring water before 12pm each day (been doing for over a year, helped a bit the persistent dry mouth and kept me well hydrated)
] 2 drops of Lugol’s Iodine in the spring water each morning (been doing for over a year)
[] Made a decision to start chewing all food properly (i.e. as much as possible in mouth before swallowing). Basically i wanted to make digestion easier so my body would have energy to focus healing efforts elsewhere
] Took 5ml of Blue Ice Fermented Cod Liver oil daily, usually in the morning after breakfast - took it neat. Later the one with butter fat
[] Bought a digestive aid called Aloe Vera Digestive Aid by Aloe Pura brand and took it before and after all meals and on an empty stomach occassionally. Later dropped this as i didn´t feel it was needed
] I had a Colon Cleanse - Oh yes, with that pipe up your arse, it was actually very enjoyable and i felt a bit better
[] I started having freezing cold showers and i mean FREEZING, like painful freezing, straight in no hot tap, morning (after weights or running) and night (before bed) (This made my sack very tight, which i read is a sign your testes have been told by the brain to produce Testosterone) Penis shrinkage initially yes, but then better later in the day
] I started taking 1 FREEZING cold bath a week. SO cold my body continuously convulsed for the full 20 minutes I laid there, fully submerged apart from head. Later added those magnesium bath salts which were good
[] I did get a script for GABApentin and i took it infrequently for about 1 month while doing the Effortless Sleep techniques. Did not cure my problems but may have helped ever so slightly
] Performed the occasional 5-10 minutes prostate massage with a prostate massager only when my prostate felt congested. This was mainly in year 2, because when I started eating clean the prostate problems went away
[] I saw a specialist dentist about the weak/sensitive teeth. He gave me great advice, when brushing your teeth - always remember not to wash your mouth too thoroughly with water afterwards. By leaving a little toothpaste in your mouth, it helps cover up sensitivity. It did help, but the sensitive teeth didn´t leave until 4 months ago
] Maximised my exposure to natural day light and went outside on work lunch breaks, often facing directly into the sun for 30 mins with my eyes closed
[*] Kept away from this forum as much as possible and only read threads by positive people actively trying to get better through means that were intelligent - e.g. Blunted

[*] Belief that I could recover from day 1 and ignored anything I read to the contrary

List of failures

Bovine Colostrum (brain fog), chinese bitters (gyno/brain fog), protein shakes (brain fog), most vitamins (useless), Zinc (i realised after a time it made me get gyno), L-Arginine (temporary crutch required for erections, nothing more), phosphatidyl serine & phosphorylated serine (cold penis later in day), magnesium (good to relax, but no long lasting benefits), all manner of fruit juices apart from Coconut Juice (Vita Coco), too many other supplements to mention.

Of course, the story and explanations behind some of the above do come with deeper explanation, which I will write when I come back with a long lasting full recovery. There’s are also big psychological and philosophical elements that I cannot list out as bullet points. This will have to wait.

So for now, good luck and take care of your good selves! I won’t come back here, but feel free to email me through the email link on my control panel.



Some things I forgot which are key, that must be added before I really do leave:

[] Pau D’Arco tea - don’t want to go into explanations now, but this tea i found to be the best at calming the body down in times of turmoil. Excellent in the morning on an empty stomach after waking
] Eating a particularly heavy evening meal (meat 10/20% + vegetables 80/90%) - make sure to feel very stuffed for benefits the next day

OK, really… i’m off! Good Luck in your recovery plans, keep pressing guys and I hope you find some inspiration from the above!



Of all your dietary habits and exercises the one that seems correlated the most to a recovery could be the sprinting. It is known that High Intensity Interval Training can boost the Human Growth Hormone by even 500%.


Just checking if you have any updates and can post in the recovery section


I’m not sticking around to get into details just now, but wanted to come back and let everyone know that I have pretty much recovered now. Morning erections are back and life is beautiful. Just a couple more pushes to be 100%. I would say I’m at about 99% normal – consistently, and that’s with eating lots of shit occasionally these days. I was very badly affected with symptoms in all categories (the list is extremely long). Before writing any more I’d just like to point out that I am a university educated male with no prior history of illness or problems and had a really good upbringing. I point this out to add clout that what I am about to describe is a rational view and clear headed/fair analysis, backed up by science tests I had done with an excellent nutritionist and my own research.

I am unsure if you have already come onto this yourselves by now, but the root cause of the problem does indeed lie deep in the small intestine, in the gut. Finasteride disturbed the bacterial balance and perforated the intestines. Opportunistic pathogens like Citrobacter Freundlii and Klebsiella – i.e. normal bacteria that resides in the gut of healthy humans – grew out of control. These bacteria’s can spread freely around the body, inhabit organs and cross the brain barrier. They multiply fast and are very difficult to get under control – unless you work closely with a nutritionist and get a comprehensive parasitology to completely understand what treatments will and won’t work. The spread of these pathogens causes a cascade of problems, including a shutdown of testosterone et al. The resultant syndrome is essentially Chronic Fatigue (only takes a little browsing of the internet and you will find numerous science based articles implicating bacteria as a root cause of Chronic Fatigue).

I will always know this is PFS. I had to get away from this forum to find out for myself. I always knew it was not irreversible due to having several brief recoveries over the years. Now I am there. Life is great. I got a new very well paid job recently and I am performing very well too. I’d really like to thank ihatepropecia. I read his thread over a year ago and it really got me thinking, because I’d always observed the ups and downs that came with foods eaten in general. Something was going on there. So if you see this mate – thank you.

Don’t want to add much more now, but one day I’ll come back and go into much more detail. So many protocols, regimes etc. In end it was all so refined and accelerated the recovery faster and faster. The core principles lie with what you eat, but you won’t get over the line without the right supplementation to control the bacteria and heal the small intestine/gut. I firmly believe seeing a good nutritionist who understands the gut (generally they all do, the gut is so important and overlooked in western medicine) is the right route for everyone suffering this problem. However don’t expect them to cure you with a magic bullet, you really have to do all the work and they will guide you along the way.

All the best

Should point out went through several phases (periods longer than 1 week) of spring water enemas day and night. This really kick started the cleaning of the small intestine, ready for all the good things I was sending down from the other end. Definitely worth mentioning that. Promise i’ll get back and do a big post some day. Hopefully this year once i’m done with the final 1% or so.


I have to respond, sorry but so many people are going to read this. People, it’s not parasites. I mean, this drug can affect people in 15 minutes after .5mg of a dose, parasites attack so quickly!!! Oh and parasites have amazing timing too, they pretty much attack our organs after our last dose of finasteride. i took it for 9 years, and those pesky parasites waited until two weeks after two do their thing. chi, glad your feeling better, but this is so moronic.

Be interested to hear your theory on how bacteria renders testosterone ineffective. Sounds an awful lot like pseudo-science.

Who is the moron - me, or you? I’d give more credit to those that have been through it and recovered my friend. I see now why ihatepropocia was quite guarded about his opinions. Well hats off to that man. I didn’t really follow his protocol, I had my own, but the objectives were much the same. Trying to convince you all in writing, on an internet forum, is a helpless exercise. It’s really up to you to decide whether you want to start peeling back the layers of the onion - looking deep at all the signals your body is giving you. It’s often so subtle. You have to let your pre-conceptions and opinions go in order to start observing, however. This is why I chose to leave the forum for a long period. I believe the same can be said for many of those that go away for a long period and come back recovered. That wasn’t just random guys. I recognised quite early on that this forum; the opinions, the theories, the nonsense, was a distraction and an obstacle to recovery. That’s why those that swirl around in here for many years never recover… they’re looking at a computer screen, not their body, environment and seeking the right kind of help. It’s the latter things you need to focus on in order to recover. Not disputing and arguing theories on this forum. When (if) you finally decide to go away in this fashion is up to you. The sooner the do, the sooner you’ll be on the right path to recover. As I said in my opening sentence, give a little more credit to those that have been through it mate. I’m not an idiot and I am genuinely trying to help you. That’s why I came back here.

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Hi Danny

Yes, it’s a tough one and I don’t have the answer for you. I only have 2 theories:

[] The brain signals to the body to lower T due to opportunistic pathogens roaming freely in the body - some sort of shutting down response
] Awful sleep (due to pathogens/toxins in the body) leads to lower testosterone. When pathogens removed, sleep improves and as does testosterone

I feel strongly about the second theory from my experience. I think we can at least agree good quality sleep is essential for testosterone. I don’t know for those that suffer but don’t have sleep issues, everyone’s case is likely slightly different but for me one thing that remains is my core theory.


I’m off again - I hope these messages do at least set 1 or 2 of you on the right track.

Yes the gut was immediately affected within 10 mins of .5mg. So affected that testicle pain happened within 15 mins, as well as dizzyness.

As I say congrats to you, I mean it, it’s terrific for anyone to move forward and feel better. I am slowly improving as well so I see that side. I think once all the studies are out, and evidence presented, you may actually giggle at the gut bacteria root cause theory.

That’s fair enough, however;

a) What about PFS sufferers with high-normal total testosterone?
b) Why is TRT ineffective for those that do not?

Either one would provide enough androgens for adequate libido, regardless of the health of other organs. Thus, there must be some other dysfunction that directly opposes testosterone rather than simply inhibit it’s production.

My honest opinion is simply time was your cure. Maybe healthy living accelerated that, but I think it’s impact was neglible.

Regardless, all the best for the future. You deserve a happy life after having to experience all this.

Since you are so certain about facts on pfs, could you please tell us what the root cause of pfs is?

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I’ve got time to kill, so let me toy with you a second. Try answer these simply a or b. No obligation to post it on my thread if you don’t want - do it in your head.

What is the best strategy to recover?

a) Go it alone, observe your body and look for answers
b) Wait for some research, from some people you don’t even know, that was supposed to be delivered 2 years ago

Who is within their rights to giggle right now?

a) Me
b) You

Think about it before answering on impulse.

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See above recent posts.

Hi Danny

In response to your questions above I don’t really know. All I know is somehow this all comes back to opportunistic pathogens that have transcended the gut wall and now inhibit nearly all organs of the body: prostate, testicles, lungs, heart, muscles, brain, you name it. They are all intoxicated with these pathogens to a greater or lesser degree. I’d highly recommend a comprehensive parasitology, if anything shows up then you know your on to something. Otherwise then feel free to come back and berate me. Don’t rule things out without testing first.

Oh and by the way, on ‘time’ being my cure. If time also includes the hundreds (if not thousands) of things I tried to get better and help myself, then OK. I sacrificed everything to get better. Didn’t see friends for about 2 years, closed myself off from the world really. It’s only the past 3-6 months, I’ve lived relatively normally - once I’d really homed in on the root causes. You don’t get better just with time, if that was the case we wouldn’t have guys going on 10-20 years. It’s what you do with the time that counts towards your recovery. You only have to look at recovery stories to prove that to yourself.

VERY little material on the internet on Citrobacter Freundlii and Klebsiella, but my nutritionist knew about it. Read below too.

[i]Many CFS sufferers, myself included, report an improvement while on antibiotics. While temporarily reducing the pathogen in question, beneficial bacteria populations are also being systematically eliminated, forever perpetuating the vicious cycle.

Diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome one year ago I am now convinced that most all of my symptoms were a result of an overgrowth of Citrobacter freundii identified by your lab (GSDL) in December 1996. Chronic sinus infections treated with six antibiotics proved ineffective and only sterilized my intestinal tract of friendly bacteria.(Bactrim, Lorabid, Zithromax twice, Biaxin, Augmentin) By the time I took the correct antibiotic Cipro, as suggested by your sensitivity chart, the bacteria was so entrenched that a ten day dose could not eradicate this pathogen.

I speak from experience when I say that this bacteria can be devastating to ones health. It feeds on sugar and is capable of leaving the intestinal tract taking up residence in the mucus membranes of the sinus and lungs. A severe respiratory infection could not be treated with yet another antibiotic in February of this year. Fortunately intravenous hydrogen peroxide arrested its progress.

Eliminating sugar from the diet similar to the anti-candida diet and taking citrus seed extract has proven to be most effective in controlling the growth of this bacteria. Any cheating whatsoever on the sugar intake proves disastrous. A recent follow-up CSA shows a reduction of the pathogen from previous levels. Adding close to 100 billion Acidophilus and Bifidus bacteria per day for the past two months has increased the levels of healthy bacteria shown on the CSA results.

The point I’m trying to relay here is the seriousness of this pathogen and what it is capable of. Which takes me back to the attached file concerning the use of Citrobacter freundii in a probiotic bacterial culture administered to young chicks to competitively inhibit Salmonella bacteria in their intestinal tracts. Why would the USDA approve one pathogen to replace another?

I am convinced that it was this bacteria that was responsible for my Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The bizarre symptoms associated with this illness are a result of the toxins released after the microorganism dies.

Q: How strong was the Citrobacter Freundii on your CDSA? (Mine was just 1+.)
A: My test results showed Citrobacter freundii was at a level 4+ and like yourself, NO lactobacillus! Four months later Citrobacter freundii was still present at 1+[/i]

For your info, I had 4+ for Citrobacter freundlii. The highest level they can give.