chi … quick question …
i am forgettign what you said before, but did you suffer from shrunken, numb, rubbery textured genitals etc etc. ? … and this has actually reversed for you ???
Just to echo what Chi and Steffenc have said about sleep, I am on the same type of pattern (1.5 years off). My baseline (sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less) is to get 6 uninterrupted hours of refreshing sleep. I could use more but I seem to have that solid foundation under me now. I have great days, no terrible days, and a lot of C+ or B- days.
Hi All
Just some interesting things I wanted to share:
I came across this website about these women who took the Yasmin or Yaz pill for birth control purposes. I was astonished to find they suffer almost exactly like PFS sufferers. If you read some of the stories you ll be amazed at how unbelievably identical the series of events are. It’s unreal. I thought i’d put these links here, because for me it just shows how PFS is not necessarily unique. These women suffer exactly the same symptoms and for years AFTER taking a pharmaceutical drug, the root cause of their symptoms is also unknown. Some of them recover, but it takes time and perseverance. They also have setbacks. Anyway, I hope you guys find some sort of solace in reading how common some of the problems we experience are; there are a shit load of people out there dealing with all sorts of things very much like our own. Many of these people do fully recover or to an acceptable point, but it takes a lot of time and effort. A considerable amount in fact:
http://www.createforum.com/yasminsideeffec/viewforum.php?f=1&mforum=yasminsideeffec
http://yasminandyaz.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/it-took-me-5-years-to-recover-from.html
Personal update:
I got full blown flu last week from my girlfriend (she had it a few nights before) and it hit me like a tonne of bricks for 48 hours, during which I had a horrific nights sleep shivering but sweating from the flu. Ironically, it kinda felt good to feel recovered but ill with flu - at least it was an illness i recognised and a doctor would recognise!! However, that 48hr episode of flu really seemed to take it’s toll in the week that followed up until now. Couple this with the fact it’s been snowing here and i’ve not been able to get out for a run, i’m not feeling 100% at the moment. I think in order to rid myself of PFS altogether, i’m going to need to go to a level more than just feeling good or 95% recovered. I need to be pushing up towards 150% superhuman recovered. This would then allow me some buffer; some additional support should my body have to fight off illness or stress. I guess the reserves simply weren’t replenished enough - even though i felt physically, emotionally and sexually fine. The foundations are good, but not that good basically.
Anyway, don’t worry. I’ll be back to good in no time, just need to work on it a couple of weeks. However, I’ll probably lay low now until i cement this thing once and for all. Too much chat otherwise. I guess I just need a bit of time, but i’ll be back.
Chi
Chi-
hey…its been a couple months…any updates?
Certainly hope things have continued trending the right direction. There are so many things in my life that I have modeled after your regimen as I feel there is much truth to what you speak (and you have a very, very level head and intelligent way of explaining things… much respect). The patterns you speak of were all very relatable to me, so your progress has helped fuel me. I have seen so many improvements based on your suggestions. Yes the setbacks are always tough, but I feel my days are so much better now than a year ago. Anyways, keep pounding the rock and feeling better. Let us know how things are going when convenient for you. Take care.
Hi donkeyboy,
Thanks for your message. I’ve still not managed to get fully recovered yet, but when I look at the period since Christmas, I know I continue to do well. I just checked into the forum the past couple of days and read some of the latest stories on the front page of the website. When I read the stories and articles reported of some people suffering with PFS, I feel in a completely different place to those people. I have been in their situation but feel I am way down the road past it. In fact while reading their stories, although very upsetting, I don’t get dragged down and feel hopeless like I used to. I think spending long periods away from the forum has really helped my mind in that sense.
Anyway, between Christmas and now I’ve had the most recoveries or close recoveries than I’ve had in over 2 years. It’s just a shame it can’t be like that every day and it’s often difficult to see the light when you’re in the down swing. For certain though, it has become easier and easier to pull myself out of that downward spiral (often before it happens) and I am becoming more and more determined to keep things good when I feel good. This latter part is a clear sign of significant progress, previously I would simply enjoy the relief that came with an upswing, instead of pushing further.
My experiments continue with everything natural, I don’t take 1 supplement! In addition, I added some excellent things into my life since Christmas - one of which was a Hurom HU-400 juicer. Cost a bomb but my god is it good. I juice cabbage/celery (which is cheap) regularly now and love it. I’ve got to a point where I have found numerous, all natural, aids to my health and recovery. Some of the more recent things I cited on my thread I continue to do religiously (e.g. freezing cold showers, getting up at 6AM). Those single changes made such a big improvement and I am so grateful that I learned about these. After months, the cold showers just get better and better, to a point where I realise now just how bad a hot shower is for healing. The cold showers have basically shrank and killed off the mild gyno I had grown. The lumps that still exist are small, soft and almost gone. Furthermore, I feel much more refreshed and invigorated.
Tightening up the sleep schedule to rise at 5.45 or 6AM ensures the body get’s very sleepy and tired when it’s bed time, instead of restless or nervous (Though these symptoms are largely gone in my case anyway). It also means that the ‘sleep’ to ‘in bed’ ratio is closer to 100%, which has positive psychological implications leading to improved sleep onset and maintenance. I have still not got hold of my sleep fully, but it’s not my biggest concern. My remaining focus problems are confined to testicle shrinkage (on/off), inconsistent libido, skinny wrists, some muscular loss, mild neurological symptoms. Compared to 1 year ago, on average all are improved hugely, but the good to bad days ratio is still not good enough in my opinion.
So I am still pressing, and with my motivation to recover 100% still fully in tact, I remain resilient and determined. My strategy has resulted in some 10-20 recoveries since Christmas alone, so I know i’m on the right track still - and I haven’t really pushed it. To be honest, nowadays it’s actually quite easy for me to make myself recovered through a bit of consecutive exercise, but keeping it that way is the tough bit! Any ideas??? Haha! Even if takes me another 10 years, which I don’t believe it will, I would never give up on myself! And you shouldn’t too!
To close off, it could be said that I am simply coping extremely well or have made huge progress with the mental symptoms, because underlying my progress, more days than not I do still have shrunken balls, very low libido, thinned body hair, thin wrists and some muscular loss. Obviously that completely sucks. Especially when your girlfriend cups your balls to comment that they feel small (Luckily it has become a laughing point for both of us!). For example, at work I am again one of the sharpest and up and coming graduates. I am again excelling at work and doing well with my professional qualification. I’m even witnessing myself engage and casually joke with management, which has been absent for a long time. Then I see my wrists or feel my balls and know it’s still there and needs to be dealt with.
It does not scare me anymore though and I don’t feel like I am unable to combat it like I did in the past, I just know I need to action some things I have planned in the pipeline. These things (again totally natural) I know from experience have a direct and profound positive impact on both my physical and sexual improvement. I just haven’t slotted them in to my schedule, yet, but am planning to do so. To be honest, I’ve been so busy with studying and work recently I’ve actually kinda deferred ramping things up on the health front. Although when I do, I expect to see a new wave of results on the physical and sexual front that should hopefully pave the way for a more stable and concrete overall recovery from the physical and sexual ailments. Of course, I know I may still hit some more obstacles/barriers or problems, but in getting to them I would have made even more progress… and it won’t take much more that’s for sure.
All the best
Chi
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hi chi
good to hear your progress.
can you write a list of the thing you are doing/did?
Too many things to list now, i’ll do that in my last post. I started running 1 mile (approx 1.5K) almost daily back in September and slowly built everything up. Today, that has progressed into running 5K on Wednesday and Fridays, doing 10 second sprints every 30 seconds. Then on Sundays I run 10K without sprints. I’m training for a triathlon in July so this isn’t really an abnormal thing to do. Try that and see how you feel. Anyway, i’m off again!
Cheers
Chi
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The day after I wrote the above everything clicked back to normal again! Libido and balls the lot. Feels very stable this time. Will post back end of April, because if it continues that far i think i might have done it.
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Chi i tried to do cold shower and it is hard!!! how do you can do this?
I have some excellent news. I am recovered.
Yesterday I tested stability by eating ice cream, pizza, having sex and also masterbating. All of which i have known for quite some time now to cause problems and result in downswings lasting days/weeks, usually. However, today I am fine, 100% normal. I have no feeling this will change now, I am ok!!! Took me almost 2.5 years, but I’ve done it!!
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Chi, I am glad you are doing much better, that’s great. But just 4 days ago you had problems including muscle wastage, thin wrists, inconsistent libido etc. your muscle wastage improved that quickly? I know your positive guy and that’s fantastic but do you really feel your 100% in all areas?
do you have the horniness feeling in your stomach when you see a girl? also, did your hair loss restart again?
I hope it sticks for you, man! Keep us up to date! Very happy for you, and I hope I join you in recovery in the near future!
I think the real test would be if you stopped all your recovery stuff like workouts and juicing and whatnot and stayed recovered. Although if I were you I’d be way too scared to do that. I’d happily run 800 miles a day and juice half a farm forever if it kept me recovered.
Not just Yasmine but Morning after pill, and Mirena IUD give the same side sides as PFS. And do you want to know why? I don’t know about Yasmine but Morning after pill and Mirena IUD use fake progesterone called Levonorgestrel which is 5AR inhibitor. The proof is below. Yes I also noticed if you go on any forums for Accutane, IUD, etc you will notice Most of the women seem to recover at least within five year period. On accutane forums you will notice posts manly from Boys. But there are many women who not recovered like us from Mirena IUD. I keep wondering why women tend to recover. Many women sent me emails that their symptoms get worse before their periods, even women who have recovered told me few days before their period they feel a little bit of brain fog.
Effects of sex steroids on skin 5 alpha-reductase activity in vitro.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1828548.
Source
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Southern California School of Medicine, Los Angeles.
Abstract
Skin 5 alpha-reductase activity is the major factor influencing the manifestation of androgen excess. Although oral contraceptives have been useful for the treatment of androgen excess, little is known of the independent effects of the various progestins and estrogens on inhibition of skin 5 alpha-reductase activity. We incubated minces of normal genital and pubic skin with physiologic concentrations of 3H-testosterone to assess 5 alpha-reductase activity by its conversion to 3H-dihydrotestosterone. In separate experiments, 5 alpha-reductase activity was assessed before and after the addition of progesterone, medroxyprogesterone acetate, levonorgestrel , norethindrone, 17 beta-estradiol, and ethinyl estradiol. Progesterone, levonorgestrel, and norethindrone demonstrated 97 +/- 5.3%, 47.9 +/- 6.3%, and 59 +/- 4.6% inhibition, respectively, of genital skin 5 alpha-reductase activity at 10(-4) mol/L (P less than .01). Medroxyprogesterone acetate, however, failed to affect 5 alpha-reductase activity at similar doses. Estradiol exhibited 40.8 +/- 14.2% inhibition at 10(-4) mol/L (P less than .01), whereas ethinyl estradiol at concentrations from 10(-8) to 10(-4) mol/L failed to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase activity. We conclude that progesterone and the 19-nor-derivatives inhibit 5 alpha-reductase activity at high doses, whereas medroxyprogesterone acetate does not. Therefore, the 19-nor-progestin component may expand the usefulness of oral contraceptives in the treatment of hirsutism by an inhibitory action on skin 5 alpha-reductase activity.
Of course past few days i have been a bit nervous that it might not hold or drift away, but it´s not the case. I am fully recovered and yes it´s all there, everything. There are of course some, let´s say, markers of what I went through that are still visible. Eg. some chest fat & wrinkles under eyes. I believe this will normalise over the coming weeks. You would be amazed how quick thin wrists, fingers and muscles come back… this is something i experienced many times, intermittently in the past 4 months anyway. In the past few days, I´ve hit my body really hard to test the stability. I wasn´t exactly doing alot of onourous things in order to recover, I was simply doing the rights things. In any case, I dropped it all, drank alcohol 2 nights in a row, ate croissants and chocolate for breakfast, pizzas… you get the idea - Living normally (sort of, because I don´t intend to eat that kinda stuff all the time going forward, not with what I know now). Anyway, I am fine. In fact so fine, I´ve spent 2 days walking around with an erection and can´t stop looking at women! Good and bad when you have a girlfirend!
Anyway, apologies for maybe inconsistency in my story past few months. Some days recovered, some days not. It´s simply a genuine account of what I went through. Not one recovery felt as good and normal as this though. This feels like the real deal. John Coleman was right and my pattern of recovery was just like his. I really hope my story sends a clear message to everyone on this forum that PFS is not permanent. From what I have seen, most on this forum haven´t gone anywhere near the lengths you need to go to, and many are too close minded to what might be the cause or what could help. Anyway, enough chat. Will send the recovery post in due course, after some more time has elapsed.
Cheers
Chi
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Great news Chi, and I’m delighted you have recovered. Please do give details asap on what you have found the key things which helped, so others on the forum can try them out.
I think that if there was a clear recovery protocol then pretty much everyone would follow it - but at present there really isn’t, so it is hard to know what to do, and following some of the more creative theories could well do a lot of harm.
please give us the details on what you’ve done. like can you go into exact diet you followed? you said you didnt take supplements, but were you taking any digestive enzymes or probiotics or anything? so you wake up early and do the morning shower thing everyday. any other things yuo’ve done consistently? you say you’ve had multiple recoveries, how did you manage those other int he past and how did you lose them? thank you for any insghts.
It’s weird, that post made me both very happy and very sad. I’m very, very happy for you and your recovery. You deserve every bit of it. You worked your ass off and conquered something that could have destroyed your life forever. It’s amazing. Then I look at myself deteriorating and I can’t fathom ever being where you are now, or even being around in general in a few years. You got a second lease on life, man. Enjoy every second of the rest of it, for all of us. I can’t imagine how beautiful everything must seem on the other side of this.
Hi All, I just responded to a PM and i thought it was worthwhile putting this here too. I will compile a list of the things I did and post them soon. Then i’ll come back with a recovery write up in 4 months, which is the time frame I need to be recovered before posting in the section.
Hi
Thanks for your nice message. It’s good to see that my posts have helped you! I’ve not got time to detail everything on my thread yet, but I will do soon.
In the meantime, all I have to say to you is this, [Size=4]KEEP GOING[/size]. It will get better and better, though you will still have dreadful setbacks along the way. Stick rigidly to your running and exercise plans, definitely definitely chuck in some sprints to your running. Try make it explosive. Also when doing weights, try make the movements explosive. Check out the Power Snatch and do lots of these. If you’ve not already started, start loading up big time on eating vegetables (sprouts, broccoli, asparagus, kale, spinach etc + plain good quality meat only). Cut out fruit altogether, it will hold you back. If you haven’t started eating this way, converting to this will accelerate your full recovery. Always the same for both lunch and dinner - VEG + Plain Meat. No sauces. Breakfast keep it clean and healthy, eggs are very good with rye bread (make sure they are organic + free range). You need the cholesterol from eggs big time. I alternated between this and organic rolled oats. If you can afford it, buy the Hurom HU-400 juicer or similar one and start juicing Cabbage & Celery. And lastly, if you’ve not braved it yet start with the freezing cold showers. It’s tough but after months you will you have no problems and you will realise the harm a hot shower is doing to your gut and body. You will grow to love the feeling you get afterwards. Do it after exercise and it will be easier. Buy yourself a water filter for the shower, don’t splash out big time but get one. The chlorine they put in water is harmful. You need to eliminate everything that might hold you back. Buy yourself a fragrance free and really natural body and hair wash. I went for Sanex 0%, not sure if you get that where you are.
Regarding your waking hours - if you can’t get up us early as I did, try set your alarm slightly before you would naturally wake up or get out of bed. What you need to do is shorten your sleep cycle, which will improve the quality of sleep during the time you are bed. It takes weeks and months, but you should feel the benefits of getting up earlier than you usually would quite soon. Don’t worry if you have’t slept, this is what you are trying to break down. Just stick to the plans, all of them. It’s not easy, but full health is so worth it - believe me. Lastly, drop all your supplements. You do not need them and they will hold you back. I mean it. Just include 2 drops of iodine a day in fresh spring water. You will get all the nutrients and vitamins you need in abundance from Vegetables. Also, start throwing in some fresh oysters - full of NATURAL zinc. Some have over 100mg. Your body will process this a millions times better than some little chemical pill. Oh and chew all food properly in your mouth before swallowing… take it really easy on your gut, there is a lot going on down there. More than you might think or this forum would have you believe. Don’t drink too much liquid after eating, you don’t want to wash away the nutrients.
Add the above to your regime and you will start to make even bigger gains month on month, until you are fully recovered. Keep only reading my thread 
, there is nothing of use to you elsewhere on the forum. I only ever read John Coleman’s posts. Don’t read anything to the contrary that you can’t recover. It’s possible, but it’s a hard and long process, most don’t have a strong enough mind to forego life’s luxuries and don’t center their whole life around recovering. You have the right mindset, that’s half the battle and I am confident you will be fine!
All the best guys
Chi
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