Blunted's Story

0) Where are you from (country)?
The Netherlands

1) How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)
Stumbled upon it while I was browsing through various hairloss related forums that had ongoing discussions about the side effects of finasteride.

2) What is your current age, height, weight?
Age: 22
Height: 6 ft 2
Weight: 180 lbs

3) Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?
Every day. Weight lifting, running, thai boxing and mma training.

4) What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?
I’d say I’m sticking to a pretty healthy diet as I try to eat a lot of proteins and carbohydrates.

5) Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?
Hair loss.

6) For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?
1 Month

(For a period of about a month, took 36 pills exactly. During this period I also took a couple of days off of taking finasteride due to side-effects but decided to continue taking it again anyway)

7) How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?
22, started taking it around early or mid february 2011.

8) How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?
22, stopped taking it march 20 2011.

9) How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
Cold turkey.

10) What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?
Propecia.

11) What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?
1 mg/day.

12) How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?
Within the first weeks of using. Possibly days even.

13) What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?
Loss of libido
Erectile dysfunction
Reduced Ejaculate
Neurological issues

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
Erectile Dysfunction
Complete Impotence
Loss of Morning Erections
Loss of Spontaneous Erections
Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
Reduced Ejaculate
Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Confusion
Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
Slurring of Speech
Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
Depression / Melancholy

Physical
Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
Testicular Pain
Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
Prostate pain
Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Increased hair loss
Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

Other (please explain)
Hoarse voice
Dry mouth and difficulty swallowing
Dry itchy skin and occasional rash
Twitching muscles
Difficulty using hands

14) What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?
None. Besides just keeping up training and working out hoping it will aid in recovering from this situation.

15) If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?
Still to come.

16) Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?
No.

17) Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.
I guess my story is not much different from everyone else’s on this forum. I started taking finasteride back somewhere in February 2011. It’s amazing how 36 of such small pills have managed to have such a huge and devastating impact on my life. I’m guessing this story is going to be a long read so I’m apologizing for this beforehand. I’ll try to keep it as organized and readable as possible though.

I can’t really pin point exactly at what moment the side effects started occurring due to the fact I have such problems remembering things since taking this drug. Plus I feel I’ve been misinformed by my medical professionals and the inadequate side-effects labeling by Merck. At the time of taking Propecia I just wasn’t aware of all the side-effects so I haven’t been able to pay enough attention to it and judge it on it’s worth. Side-effects I did experience for a fact though have been:

  • A decrease in libido.
  • Watery ejaculate .
  • Weaker orgasms.
  • Pain in both testicles and chest.
  • Emotional blunting, brain fog and concentration problems.
    I don’t know exactly if I would qualify for erectile dysfunction while I was on the drug. Getting an erection surely turned more into a task though rather than being a response to erotic stimulance. Getting an orgasm also got harder. I linked this all to my decrease in libido though. If I would get an erection it would still be as strong as it was pre-fin.

I stopped taking propecia cold turkey after I discovered an article in the news paper stating there were numerous incoming reports by American psychiatrists of patients complaining about persistent erectile dysfunction even after stopping medication. This was march 20, 2011.
This article woke me up and I just didn’t want to risk being one of the sufferers from this condition. I figured stopping medication would bring back my libido to normal and all side-effects would disappear.

As days progressed things seem to have gotten back to normal, or so I thought. It wasn’t until around april 13 that I started noticing differences in experiencing music. It was like listening to my favourite music didn’t bring me the same enjoyable feelings anymore. And I can recall exactly how, at april 15, it was a nice hot sunny day and I was walking down the street. All women were wearing dresses or any other kind of summery figure accentuating clothing and this just didn’t do anything for me at all anymore. Girls I know I would normally find attractive and would give me a hard time to not look at while going like “DAMN” in my head now just didn’t do anything for me whatsoever. I felt little to no sexual attraction whatsoever.

This was the point I saw things go to complete shit. The occurrence of symptoms didn’t happen over night but it has gradually gotten worse as each day passes. I’ll make a list of symptoms that have occurred after april 15 (a month after stopping medication):

  • Loss of libido.
  • Erectile dysfunction. Getting an erection has gotten extremely hard, maintaining it even harder. And even if I do get an erection it’s not what it used to be. Most of the times it’s still somewhat soft and at most (it seems to be different each day and also time of day is also a big factor)I can get it to like 95% of what it used to be. I also seem to have lost morning erections and spontaneous erections are out of the question too.
  • Very weak orgasms. It’s like the sperm slowly drips out of the penis and the whole experience of it doesn’t give me a feeling of pleasure anymore.
  • My ejaculate changed from being watery to now being very thick.
  • The pain in my balls has also returned. It sort of feels like a dull pain that you can also feel in the stomach area. As if you’ve taken a kick to the balls.
  • Chest pains returned too.
  • I was also shocked to find out I was losing body hair in a lot of places. There is a significant decrease in facial, arm pit, butt, chest, leg and pubic hair.
  • And I was even more shocked to find out the hair on my balls started going white. And it’s still getting worse, the rest of my pubic hair is starting graying too and it just feels very dead or something.
  • I’ve also noticed how I am losing strength and muscle too it seems. Especially in the calves and forearms/wrists. I’ve been working out for quite some years now so I’ve always been pretty muscled. Over the past few weeks I’ve seen my body changing a lot, I look kind of disproportioned right now due to the weird muscle loss pattern in my opinion.
  • Another thing I am noticing is how my joints are popping very often. Any sort of movement results in popping of my joints.
  • Difficulty using my hands, especially my fingers. It’s like they are locked or something.
  • My skin has turned very dry and itchy. Sometimes I also seem to get a sort of red rash or something.
  • Decreased sweating.
  • Dry mouth and difficulty swallowing.
  • Hoarse voice.
  • Twitching muscles.
  • My balls have started to shrink, they also feel less full too. And my ball sack just feels very saggy.
  • My penis seems to be changing form slowly too. It’s gotten wrinkly and it seems to be slightly curving to the left.
  • I am suffering from all the symptoms mentioned on the site in the neurological part full force so I won’t be listing them all. I guess everyone’s familiar with it.

This is as detailed as I can possibly express the symptoms I’ve been experiencing.

I’ve already been to the doctor and told him I am experiencing these side-effects even after a month of stopping. He told me to give it a couple of more weeks and he predicts I’ll most likely see the symptoms disappear in this frame of time (This was 1,5 weeks ago). I also notified him on the possibility that I am suffering from post-finasteride syndrome. He told me there was no way to possibly prove my current state is caused by the use of finasteride and basically said everything I’ve read on Propeciahelp.com is total bs and only contributes to panic and fear that leads to my erectile dysfunction and low libido. He also said it’s too soon after stopping the use of finasteride to say if the side-effects are not to still go away and I am best off seeing a psychiatrist.

My dermatologist which prescribed me Propecia told me he never had any of his patients report any of the things I addressed and thought my story was very unlikely too (in other words, just complete bullshit). He advised me to go see a psychiatrist as well.

What do you guys think? Is it really too soon to say anything about it? Am I jumping to conclusions?
I just don’t know what to think anymore. At the moment I just feel really depressed and not taken seriously, as if I have no leg to stand on in this case. I’m getting my blood tested asap and see what that will bring to light. Other than that I’m just clueless right now. I don’t know where to go from here.

To anyone taking the time to read and be willing to respond to this ridiculously long story, I thank you in advance. It is much appreciated

I’d also like to express how very sorry I am for everyone suffering from this hell they’ve been put in by taking this medication. I just have no words for it.

Welcome to the site. Follow the blood test directions to see if you have secondary hypogonadism. Some of us that do have what appears to be fin induced secondary hypogonadism have had sporadic or short lived relief when boosting testosterone (either endogenously via clomiphene or HCG, or through supplemental testosterone). T, FSH LH DHT Estradiol prolactin

Also get a complete thyroid check (including T3 forward and reverse). If your endocrinologist is cooperative (give her or him a copy of the online CBS news article it is the most complete) please also get 3 alpha androstanediol glucuronide tested (common factor amongst nearly all of us).

Welcome to the crew. I feel you man, hell of a symptons! It’s gonna be a real different life from now on but if you look at the recoveries section, there is a hope with recovery. Never lose your hope during this ordeal dude.

Oh wow, something good came out of this! I mean the study. Thank god you stopped by then.

WELL. :neutral_face:

I’m sorry to hear that. I know this other PFS guy i know in this country was juggled 2 years between psychiatrist and his doctor was a self-conscious prick who only believed to himself. Expect to see a lot of doctors who will say that it’s in your head/it’s depression and so forth.

Yes, judging from your side-effects it certainly seems like you’ve got into PFS. If you don’t believe it just yet, just wait a month and TRY to see if it’s your head. :wink: No amount of doctor belittling/condescending talk will reverse that… and It’s not like you’ve ever experienced preschool/middleschool child level of sexuality during your depression anyways. As somebody (me) who has gone through lot of really hard depression and uh one pretty surefire suicidal one, i know that depression didn’t even make a THIS huge of a change to my sexuality. Usually the anxiety just gave me PRESSURE to get a relief from it, if you understand what i mean.

I’m 21 and i quit the drug 5-6 months ago after severe side effects after 30 pils so uh i can relate to your case. I had to learn all this stuff too.

Hey uh curious question but it relates to most users here: how was your sexuality prior to finasteride? How would you uh rank yourself in this, just your drive to have sex or sexual energy/pressure.

Also, do you have a job?! as in Do you have the money to finance your recovery. Ofc this will be a problem with a job but try to stay on it as far as you can if only to get money. The hints below give you tips to improve yourself mentally for it, the nutrients section is propably the easiest way to start.

Well, i’d might take SHBG along with those you listed Kazman. Seems to be kind of useful when determining the level of estradiol. Might be useful when taken with complete thyroid.

Also y e s to complete thyroid check. FT3, FT4, RT3 (!), TSH, thyroid antibodies if possible.


Also Blunted, here are some very useful tips in regaining the bits of your life back:

1. You might experience all kinds of muscle wasting now so if it’s possible, you should consider cutting most (if all) carbohydrates from your diet. Refined sugar, wheat, potato, rice, any carbos. Eat mostly protein and veggies. Try building your diet that everything has low glymemic-index. CUT ALL THE ALCOHOL AND CAFFAINE! This is very important, the first one will make you crash AGAIN and the latter will make your fatigue/brain problems even worse.

If you can pull this out with discipline and believing that this diet is your thing NOW at the beginning of PFS, then you have got a valuable tool for your recovery. Lot of theories over what might be the cause (adrenal fatigue, glucose resistance?, yeast infection) require this diet.

It’s hard to believe what such a total diet change could bring but since you got full-blown mental side-effects, this will/might provide useful to you. A lot of members here (japanther, Dynaaminen, couple of other guys argh if i remember from the top of my head) improved during a diet like this, especially on the mental side-effects stuff and believe me those are the WORST as they rob you of everything. Also healthy diet is a healthy diet and you are going to need all the energy you can get.

2. Get a proper sleeping schedule, like from 6-8 am to 8-10pm. Try to get at least 8 hours of sleep minimum, try to upkeep this constantly if you can! Most of the time there is no particulary good reason not to do this so.

3. Nutrients, just don’t go overboard with this. Get zinc picolite, magnesium, B6 pills and take these together. Good/strong vitamin B capsules are good. Even seperately these are good but some people over here swear by this conbination (also called ZMA).
Get subdermal (put under tongue & let it melt) B12, this might be useful.
Fish oil (liquid or capsules).
Some people get benefits from really strong vitamin D pills for some time, dosage around 10000iU.
Multivitamins are good.
Precursor stuff like Tyrosine might be/is useful with your condition but i wouldn’t take it for now. It’s certainly beneficial but there is a side-effect we’d need to discuss/figure out in Dolichol Deprivation topic in Theories section, anyways. If your job just requires you to be sharp then i guess tyrosine here and now wouldn’t hurt but i can’t know. It doesn’t seem to be LIFE-THREATENING or immediate harm to most people i know anyways, just improvement.

Then there is vitamin c a e and so forth you should take too. Strong vitamin E might be beneficial in the long run.

These should be good.

4. Exercising can or can’t be good with this condition but uh, on the looks of it most of people get benefits from it! Ahha, some people managed to kept their balls from shrinking with exercising. Do this in moderate amounts, overworking WILL harm your condition.

    • Most importantly, don’t lose hope. Don’t turn depressed despite the biological tendency to it now (yes it’s not like you previously LOVED to do it anyways), might trigger anxiety attacks in you too. Keep going with your life the best you could. Expect situations where you might have to decline women. Yes, you will face losses now but you have to keep your eagle eye’s set on improving and finally recovery. Become a friggin’ samurai temple of healthy and positive energy lifestyle. Become stronger through hardships, scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue ~~ aaa i can’t remember who’se this quote.

The hope part is important since especially now that you are weakened, your mental and spiritual reserves will stay limited for awhile. Do EVERYTHING you can to preserve them. Optimisms or positive attitude is nothing of a false belief rather than a real good surivival strategy to protect your mind. Trust me, judging from your current situation you WILL improve from there.


Thanks for the feedback Kazman and gefinauser. I will have to look into some of the stuff you guys posted since I am not yet familiar with what it all exactly means, I still have a lot to learn about this situation. But this certainly gives me something to go by and I will certainly give it a shot seeing as how I’m prepared to do anything to recover. Thank you guys it’s much appreciated

One thing though that might cause some problems though is sticking to a proper sleeping schedule. Lately I’ve had very big problem with sleeping since I constantly wake up throughout the night. I guess there is a pattern in this in which I fall asleep to wake up 3 hours later being in a panic state. From that point on when I’ve gotten back to my senses I’ll continue sleeping in a repeating pattern of waking up and falling back to sleep about every hour. Anyone have any experience with this?

Yes exactly, this is what I’ve been saying too but everyone is blowing me off for it. I’ve been dealing with major depressions throughout my life as well and I know EXACTLY what kind of effects it has on me. And no matter how deep the depression was I suffered from, never did it have any effect on my sexuality.

That just sucks man, seems like our situations are very similiar. How are you now? Have you seen any improvements since stopping?

Oh man prior to finasteride my sex drive was through the roof. I guess I can say I was over potent. I was always up for it. I can’t remember a day I did not engage in some sort of sexual activity, be it having sex or masturbating. I never experienced a limit to my potency either, I had a very short refractory period and could have many orgasms a day without any problem. I got aroused very, very easily too. I remember having to mentally battle the boners I would pop in public places so often it wasen’t even funny anymore. I was the complete opposite of what am I now and I feel so goddamn stupid even considering taking finasteride =/. It really messed me up good.

I don’t have a full time job seeing as how I’m a student technically. This situation really couldn’t have come at a worse time seeing as how I was in the process of starting a new education after realizing what I was doing at that time just wasn’t for me. A risky move but I felt it was necessary for my long term happiness in terms of doing something that was more close to my heart. This was around the same time I started taking Propecia and now I’m stuck in my current situation. It managed to completely destroy my motivation to go for it with a new education. Frankly, at the moment, I don’t know what I want to do anymore, I just feel so disconnected from everything. All I really care for is recovering from this fucked up situation. But I guess I should be able to finance my recovery with the shitty side jobs I have to answer your question.

Thank again so much for replying guys, it means a lot to me. It’s somewhat comforting to know I am not alone in this and there are people willing to listen. Reading how people are improving and in some cases even recovering is certainly inspiring and hope giving too. It’s a good thing this forum is out there.

Any other comments/questions or tips are welcome.

And best of luck to all the sufferers out there.

Yeah, this is familiar! I mean i don’t think i’m getting proper sleep either but there are people far off worse than i am regarding to sleep, like you are. It’s certainly a PFS effect and you are better off looking for/asking other people about this.

I’m alright now. Much better than weeks ago.
Yeah, certainly improvement for some. Like uh, my story is pretty different in that the sides aren’t nearly as bad as yours initially (though yeah the confusion/loss of emotions initially was hard but it went away) plus i took creatine monohydrate which is completely different from all the people here (NOT RECOMMENDED!!).
I’m uncertain about this but chances are that lot of your sides will dissolve in the following month or two save the sexual ones. Usually initially there is harsh sides but they SEEM to get easier more quickly than the long lasting ones.

Right now i have been recovering naturally a bit. As the summer has been approaching my chronic fatigue and brainfog/cognitive problems have been easening up which is EXTREMELY good. I haven’t checked lately but some time ago had strong morning woods for no reason and then they propably went away. Get spontaneous erections when thinking of women sometimes and even then i don’t feel great deal of sexuality. Very small sexuality/virility (underlying) nowdays as a kind of a reminder of what i was prior to this. :confused:
I am kind of dumbfounded that i have even recovered this much by myself since i uh really haven’t changed my diet (SHOULD have but don’t have the finances to pull it out currently) and i’m really thin dude. I don’t do weightlifting or anything for my whole life. I’m sure female fatty tissue is happening too.
But i don’t mind, this progress thing can be a zig-zag/up and down and you may never properly recover until you fix the underlying issues.

Ahhaha sounds awfully familiar. You see, curiously most of us had pretty high sexuality like you. I uh was kind of suprised that what i had wasn’t so common?! I really had to do a LOT of work to somehow fit my sexuality in the frames of you know PARENTS SIBLINGS, jesus christ. d-danger wank, g-gulp… nah JK but yeah.
It really does seem pretty common among us. High sexuality. Instant woods sound familiar, several times a day if allowed to, would go crazy of women and think about them a lot of time.

For the latter part: You’ll learn this soon enough but the thing is that don’t beat up yourself. Not about your past life or what a mistake you did. It’s bit about first learning to let go off the old you that was uh normal and come in terms with it…and then start systematically fix your condition and set your eyes on recovery. I don’t think people talk about this a lot or at least in media but… whatever was you in the past is in the past. For you to get THERE eventually to some degree requires ambition.

Remember that what fucked you really was LIARS that told you that medicines are okay and that side-effects CERTAINLY won’t happen, in fact there are practically none! :laughing: If anybody tells you that it’s your fault that you took medicine for vanity then don’t let it get to you!! Fuck those people. We already live in a culture of medicalization and it’s medical community’s lies that medicine’s are fixative/directed in nature. Less medicines is a whole lot more.

Yeah, tell me about it dude. It’s really hard to think about (especially few weeks back) studying when your cognitive abilities are of an “alzhaimery” old human, yet alone work. Right now i’m juggling whether going full after any full-day work or do my current studies along with a part time job (jesus christ will i have the energy/capability to do that?). I bet working would be more optimal for me to not to prolong this condition. and so forth…

Look, do you have social security for students in Netherlands? Does your parents know about your condition and could they possibly help you eg. with finances? Does your very closest friend(s) know this to give you either mental or even financial backup? I know that this was pretty hard to deal entirely with myself and you are propably going to need all the help you can get.

Right now, you feel like shit right? Disconnected, isolated. Or to be exact like NOTHING at all. Believe me, it WILL get easier. What you thought about your education prior to finasteride was right but fin fucks your brain chemicals so you don’t know what is right anymore. Likewise feeling love or getting a crush of MUSIC is hard. I believe this is common with finasteride people.

Likewise, i’m PRETTY sure you can do a lot to improve your mental/spiritual clarity. I’d start off with nutrients and diet. Ease off that exercising, you might just be stressing yourself just worse. You can either keep with it on mild/moderate level or drop it to light exercising aka jogging and walks. tbh it’s hard to tell what is more correct in your situation as everybody does things here differently.
Get plenty of rest, eg. take an evening nap if you feel tired for 30mins max to get you through the day, more will just disturb your sleeping.
Sleeping might be hard for you right now but at least don’t take melatonin… aaa damn i can’t remember what stuff people took over here for sleeping exactly. :blush:

Yes, I had the light sleep/no dreams/constant waking/waking up in a panicky state while on Finasteride, it became more severe towards my last few months of usage.

This is not surprising since Fin is documented to:

  1. Inhibit neurosteroids in the brain (Allopregnanolone, THDOC).

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=202
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38

  • Result: anxiety, depression, nervousness, mood disorders, mental fogginess, memory impairment, cognitive dysfunction
  1. Inhibition of these neurosteroids affects the GABAergic system/GABA-A receptors in the brain.
    viewtopic.php?p=28657#p28657
  • Result: loss of REM sleep, agitation, amongst other things

3.Drug affects Nitric Oxide synthase and Nitric Oxide release
viewtopic.php?p=11736#p11736

  • Result: disrupted sleep/wake cycle, contribution to erectile dysfunction and other impaired bodily processes
  1. Drug alters androgen/estrogen ratio to be in favor of estrogen
    viewtopic.php?f=8&t=185
  • Result: feminization, gynecomastia, become more emotional, wanting to cry more often etc.

For me, the panicky feelings/anxiety began to clear up within a few weeks of being off the drug, but the lack of restful sleep, light sleep, loss of REM sleep (dreams) and constant waking took ~1-2 years to start improving somewhat after quitting. However, everyone’s body is different and hopefully you will find your issues improve more quickly.

As for the rest of your symptoms, they all sound extremely familiar to me and others around here. However, as it is early days for you, hopefully things will improve more rapidly in coming weeks/months. Try not to panic or stress about it, get plenty of rest and keep busy with other things in the meantime, and get bloodwork per the FAQ if possible.

My sleep was fantastic at a year off but now it has gone to pot again. Induced by stress from a break up and over exercise possibly. The constant waking up with no dreams, then crazy dreams, and absolute dead dick is crazy.

Ok it took me a while to write this post but I just couldn’t because I just can’t accept what has happened to me. Posting here makes me have to deal with issues I’m trying to suppress and not think about throughout the day.
But really, it’s come to the point I can’t anymore. My life has turned into a complete hell, this drug managed to completely destroy my life. This PFS thing is on my mind every goddamn second of the day. And it’s not like I can help it. Everything I do that I used to do too before taking finasteride is just a reminder of how something in my body fucked me up to the point I don’t react and function normally in certain situations.
Like for example when I’m training martial arts during sparring. It just doesn’t give me the same adrenaline boost it used to give me. I used to be a pretty dominant guy by nature, whenever I would get hit in a fight I would get so angry and hyped I basically wanted to destroy my opponent. And I loved that feeling too, feeling of rage and letting off steam.
Now when I’m sparring and get hit, nothing happens in my head, I don’t feel any anger rising, nor an urge to win at all. It’s just gone.

Sort of the same feeling of nothingness I now have when I am hanging out with my friends, I don’t feel any affection from the friendship. I just feel trapped in this prison of nothingness.
The summer is kicking in now too, perfect time for checking out women. I remember the days of sitting in the sun, enjoying a drink with friends and watching all the beautiful women walk by and talk about how sexy they are. Last weekend it was that time again, except now I just don’t feel a goddamn thing. My friends would be discussing how hot some girls are and be like ‘check out the booty on that’ as they walk by. I’m just sitting there looking at a beautiful woman’s ass and nothing happens in my head anymore. No sexual feeling whatsoever.

It’s exactly this sort of shit I can’t accept and makes me drive completely nuts. I know how I used to be before and how completely changed I am by that fucking crap finasteride. I just feel like I’m castrated and I can’t live with this. I’ve been keeping myself from social interaction more and more and I barely get out of the house.

Not too long ago I came to the point I thought I was actually recovering and nearly got back to normal. I held my horses though posting about my ‘recovery’ since I’ve read many people experienced short lived recoveries only to crash again not too much later. I think I had the same thing happening to me. And besides that my state is pretty fluctuating so I can’t really report much progress on some symptoms I’ve been experiencing.

Things though I have seen improve:

  • No more chest pain.
  • Less popping of joints
  • Brainfog slightly less severe.
  • Stronger ejaculations. It’s still nowhere near what it used to be, but it’s actually starting to shoot out of my penis again instead of slowly dripping out (sorry to be so vulgar, I think we’re all beyond the point of shame regarding this shit).
  • No more hoarse voice.
  • Twitching muscles problem is fading.
  • Less dry mouth
  • I seem to be putting muscle on again from weight training. Since my crash I’ve noticed a lot of muscle wastage which got worse over time. It came to the point where I lost 10 pounds of near pure muscle mass. I would still work out everyday though and I noticed how, as I was doing so, my muscles wouldn’t get pumped anymore and the day after I wouldn’t experience any sore muscles from training either. As of lately this seems to be slowly changing, I do get pumped from training again, my muscles grow again from training and the day after I start experiencing slight sore muscles again. It’s still nowhere near how it used to be pre-fin but I guess I can see it as an improvement.

symptoms with fluctuating improvement:

  • ED
  • Size of scrotum

I’m still in the process of getting any appointment with an endocrinologist, it’s taking forever so I guess I’m on a waiting list or something. So I can’t post any hormonal levels yet.

One alarming thing though I’ve been suffering from ever since crashing is joint pain. At first since crashing my joints were just stiff and gave me a burning like feeling especially when not using it. The last part seems to have improved since I don’t have that anymore. Instead I now have crunching and grinding knees though which are kind of painful. I went to the doctor today and he told me my knees were swollen and the cartilage in that area appears to be damaged or something. I had to go to the hospital to get x-ray photos taken so I’ll just have to wait and see what that brings to light. Anyone knows anything about this or experienced something similiar?

I’m glad to read you’ve been improving man, I wish you nothing but the best in making a complete recovery.

Hehe I know what you mean man, what you wrote down is just all too familiar. This along other commonalities us PFS sufferers have would make you think we might be genetically prone to reacting to finasteride the way we did. Though the symptoms are different for everyone I guess us sufferers could be categorized by age, time of usage and other issues (like for example underlying thyroid or prostate issues that finasteride made worse). Don’t pin me down on this, I’m just theorizing, it’s worth looking into though and might lead to understanding of what brought us to this to point and what can be done about it.

I know what you mean man. It’s just very hard seeing as how I would describe my current post-finasteride state as riding a very thin line between being focussed on recovery and just losing hope all together of ever getting better. I don’t feel we have a whole to go by to keep giving us hope, we don’t know exactly what happened or why it happened and there is no real treatment in this situation. I just feel like I’m blind firing into a direction in hope of getting better. It’s hard to stay positive even though I try my absolute best to do so.

Yea man I have good support from my family and my best friends that I’ve told about this, thank god for that.

Update
Finally got some blood work done:

  • LH 5,9 (1/10)
  • FSH 2,6 (2/7)
  • Testosterone 13,2 (10/55)

What do you guys think of these numbers?

My gp told me the results were all in range and he thinks those levels are perfectly fine for me. But even though the numbers are within range, I’m 100% sure these are not my levels of my body in pre-fin state. There are only so many things that indicate my testosterone level has dropped, I guess I won’t have to list them all again.

One thing I’ve finally got some clarity about is the painful and popping joints I’ve been experiencing ever since crashing. As mentioned before I have been diagnosed with damaged cartilage in the knees. I went to see a physiotherapist for this problem and he told me my condition was caused by the muscles in the legs being too weak, especially the ones in the inner thighs. This is what is putting way too much pressure on the joints and thus resulting in cartilage damage. It now makes so much sense to me:
Low Testosterone -> Muscle wastage -> Joint pain

At first I thought the popping and grinding feeling was the meniscus, but it actually is the irritated tendons that’s causing this. I guess this explains the “popping joints” we’ve all been experiencing throughout our entire body.

The only thing I can see is that your T is ridiculously low. You haven’t tested thyroid hormones (FT3, FT4, and RT3) and cortisol-line-production hormones: pregnenolone, progesterone, and cortisol (cortisol has to be tested via salivary panel). You also haven’t tested other sex hormones such as E2 and SHBG, but, in your case, they do not matter much because you have bottom low T. For next tests, I think you don’t need FSH or LH; insist with your dr to check the important ones.

Yea I’ve been meaning to get those tested but my gp keeps being an ass-hat about the whole situation. He also had a whole bunch of other irrelevant (imo) stuff like trombocytes, leukocytes, mean corpuscular volume and other things in that area tested. I would post those results too if it would have any relevance, but I don’t think it has (besides the numbers were just fine).

Next tuesday I’ll be seeing an endocrinologist for the first time though. I’m hoping he’ll be more understanding about this and have the right shit tested to see if that brings anything to light.

On a positive note though, it’s been a month since my last post and I’ve been improving a whole lot since that time.

  • I don’t have shrunken, saggy low hanging balls anymore. They actually appear to be normal again.
  • ED is improving. Though it’s still nowhere near pre-fin in terms of popping them spontaneously (which doesn’t happen a whole lot). With some stimulation it at least gets back to being fully erect like it used to be pre-fin. I’m taking that as a huge positive sign.
  • Stronger ejaculations, I would go as far as to say it’s almost back to pre-fin level again. I’m firing huge pre-fin like loads again too with ever improving consistency. When at first after crashing my sperm would be very very thick and extremely sticky, it seems to slowly be returning to normal form again. It’s gotten a lot more ‘mobile’ again too (dunno if it’s the right word for it but I think you can understand what I mean).
  • No more brainfog, thank God for that.
  • Building muscle again. Before taking finasteride, I was a strong, athletically built 185 pounder. After taking propecia and crashing I dropped down to somewhere around 168 pounds at the worst point and got very weak. The muscle wastage was very clear, all of a sudden I had chicken legs, small forarms and a very thin neck to just name a few things. I’m happy to report I have now managed to put a lot of muscle on and I’m getting bigger again. I now weigh 188 pounds and feel strong again.
  • Sleep seems to be improving. I still don’t get proper sleep though as I still wake up a lot throughout the night but its not as bad as it used to be.
  • Regaining body hair on chest and my beard growth appears to be going back to normal. I still have fluffy leg and armpit hair though. And I still have white scrotal hair.

I’m hoping I might be making a natural recovery. I’ve now been off propecia for 4 months, is that a normal time frame to be recovering from sides?

I’ve been doing very heavy weightlifting lately and keeping myself to a strict 6 meal a day diet. I’m also taking multi-vitamins and extra vitamine c. Could this cause improvements in sides?

The strength exercise could potentially be helping massively. If you have only been off four months it’s best to not think about it too much and just keep doing what is working for you.

Good luck.

I guess it is the working out that is helping me a whole lot. I’m not an expert when it comes to this by any means but I’d say the healthy living and working out plays a major role in kick starting my system for it to start functioning normally again.

It hasn’t been too long since my last post but I feel the need to post another update on my situation since I’ve been improving a lot since:

  • ED -> This keeps improving more and more. Though improvement has been slow, it’s certainly going into the right direction. My erections now are stronger than they were my last post. It’s only now that my erections are this strong again that I realize I had lost a lot of girth up to the last time posting. I never realized this because I hadn’t had a normal erection for so long I forgot what my dick used to look like when being pre-fin erected.
    Ever since my last post I’ve been popping spontaneous boners on various occasions.
  • Improvement in libido. Though I am nowhere near the hyper sexual horny goat I was before finasteride I’m also seeing slow improvement in libido. This goes hand in hand with the return of occasional spontaneous boner popping I guess. I can actually remember 2 occasions past week where I woke up in the morning feeling horny and thinking about sex.
  • My dick feels different, almost like normal again. I don’t think I ever really mentioned this in my topic. But ever since crashing I had this weird flaccid, rubber like dick that was cold most the time. It was also really stretchy without much feeling. As of late I am not having this anymore either. It now actually feels… normal… and warm.
    It started with my saggy cold scrotum returning to normal a while back. Now my dick appears to be doing the same thing too.
  • Less frequent urination. Ever since taking finasteride I’ve had really bad problems with urinating, I am not exaggerating when I say I used to have to piss at least 30 times a day. I don’t have to go an awful lot anymore and neither do I have to go nearly right away after drinking something.

I’ve recently started taking supplements to help me in my training and I can recommend it to anyone trying to battle muscle loss and fatigue. I’m taking creatine and a workout booster. As of today I’ve also started taking zink and fishoil, I’m hoping that will help me out as well.

Had my first appointment with an endo this week. She confirmed from previous blood test done via my gp that my T indeed was low even though it was within range, but we need a full hormonal profile to see what’s causing this since what I’ve had tested before really is of no use. I’m having my next appointment in 3 weeks so let’s see what that brings to light.

It sounds like you are making very good progress that is sustaining. You may well be lucky and recover within the year timeframe, or at least keep your improvements. Just wait and see.

Your crash and symptoms afterwards sounded exactly like mine. I saw improvements within the first year and thought i was totally out of the woods on a few occasions but never made slow sustained progress. I believe when you improve a little bit, and alittle bit more it’s a good sign. I just make very short near full recoveries and come crashing back down.

Went to the endocrinologist yesterday, she told me all my test results came back fine and there’s nothing she can do for me. I did get an appointment with an urologist though to further investigate what could possibly be causing my problems.

Here’s the results which are in the recommended list for testing on the propeciahelp site. I’ll leave the rest out because yet again I have also been tested for a shitload of stuff I feel is pretty unimportant.

My blood was taken around 4 pm (16:00).
Testosterone 22.6 (8.6 - 29)
Free T4 12 (9.8 - 18.8)
LH 6 (1.7 - 8.6)
FSH 2.3 (1.5 - 12.4)
SHBG 49 (17 - 56)
Cortisol 145 (7 - 10h: 62 - 194)
(16-20h: 23 - 119)
Vitamin D 28 (30 - 100)

I read somewhere blood tests should be taken early in the morning because levels of for example testosterone are highest at that moment. Seeing as how my blood was taken in late afternoon with my testosterone level still being well within range should be considered a good thing right? Especially since my last blood test was taken early in the morning with my T being way down the lowest third of range. It would make sense though seeing as how much better I’ve been feeling lately.
Another thing I forgot to mention in my post 2 months back concerning my previous blood test is my DHT level. Even though my testosterone was low I still had pretty high within range DHT. I can only suspect that with my testosterone rising the last months my DHT has also been increasing so I’m not concerned about that.
The last month or so I’ve noticed how I am going bald on the head again, never thought I’d be so happy to see this happening. I think my balding was halted by finasteride, I’ll take the fact I am starting to lose hair again as a good sign. My beard has recently started coming in thicker as well, good signs I’m thinking.

Only thing bad I can see about this blood test is I have high cortisol and low vitamin D. I’m kind of surprised my cortisol level wasen’t mentioned by my endocrinologist. I didn’t notice it myself after the appointment while looking the whole thing over again carefully. I guess the lab wasn’t aware of the time my blood test was taken, it wasn’t mentioned as something that stands out with the results that came back. I think my cortisol level could play a big part in my fucked up sleeping I’m still experiencing every night (though it’s not as bad as it used to be).

Does anyone have any thoughts concerning my bloodtest? Or have any advice for me?

You seem to be one of the very rare guys that suffer a full on crash and recover naturally. Your testosterone improving so much bears this out.

From reading a lot on here I think many guys suffer from low T immediately post fin but this improves back to normal, and their symptoms aren’t so bad. You seem quite unusual in that you had full on muscle wastage, no libido, slower facial hair growth etc and seemed to have bounced back. I think pretty much the only side you didn’t get was shrinkage.

I think you got out of jail. Given that you were wary of the stuff in the first place and dropped it as soon as you heard about PFS without getting any sides yourself, you deserve your luck.

My sleep was haywire and has also improved. It could be cortisol but may well also be the drug interfering with GABA.

If you are still feeling good and things are constantly improving i think you should just leave things as they are. You could try and boost your vitamin D by getting out into the sun as often as possible, using a sunbed occasionally taking a vitamin D supplement.

Good luck.

I actually did have shrinkage, as mentioned in my opening post. After crashing I had shrunken balls. Sides that seem common for PFS sufferers which I never had though are male breasts and getting fat.

Read my opening post again man, I did have sides while being on finasteride. I never quit upon finding out about PFS either. I quit upon reading a small article in the newspaper about persistent erectile dysfunction even after quitting. I quit because I didn’t want to risk playing around with my health just to keep my hair. Never in a million years did I expect to end up crashing after quitting the way I did. It wasn’t until this had already happened and I started to search online for finding info on what the fuck had happened to me that I found this site.

And no I’m not out of jail yet. I see things slowly improving but I’m not recovered.
To this day I haven’t had a good night of sleep, 9 out of 10 times I still wake up with a limp dick. And except for the very, VERY few rare occasions of being somewhat horny, I still have no libido whatsoever.

Yea I guess keep doing what I’m doing is a good thing seeing as how far it has already got me. Taking sunbaths is a very good idea, I’ll start doing that. I’ve also recently started taking vitamine d3 in hope it will aid me in recovering. Thx for the tips.

Blunted, how are your erections? Are you able to have pleasurable sex whenever you are in such a situation? Is it just that your libido is low so you don’t desire it as much?

And you have been off this drug for 7 months now correct?

I’m guessing that’s pretty much it. My erections are fine and pretty much like they were pre-fin. Still needs a little manual stimulation though and I don’t pop boners spontaneously like I used to. As time passes by I’ve seen my orgasms grow increasingly pleasurable so yes I can. Still have little to no libido though.

I quit taking this poison march 20, so that’s like about 5 1/2 months off.