Blunted, I am glad you are improving. Your story gives us hope.
Do you think you could provide some information regarding what you did? Did you keep exercising throughout your crash and up to now? Or did you start heavy weight lifting some time after your crash? How often a week?
How are you in terms of sides? Brain fog, erections, sleep, weight?
We would appreciate any additional details.
Also, did you lose penile sensitivity and have it return?
I’ve had multiple people ask me about my regimen so I decided to post it here so it’s accessible for everyone aiming to live a more healthy life and work out. Living like this has a very positive effect on a lot of things finasteride appears to have thrown out of whack in our systems. Heavy weightlifting boosts testosterone, cardio exercises burn fat and helps you get rid of excess estrogen. Exercising also boosts thyroid functioning.
[i]The first thing you want to keep in mind before even starting training is understanding making progress is the sum of A. Working out B. Eating and C. Resting. I can’t stress how important this is if you want to make progress. Work out without properly feeding yourself and you’ll just be wasting your time.
Here’s a good schedule to start out with:
A. Working out.
You’ll be wanting to do a mix of heavy weightlifting and cardio exercises, so you’ll need to join a gym. With heavy weightlifting I don’t mean you need to lift a certain amount weight for it to be successful. Just lift as heavy as you can handle while executing the exercises properly. Push your own limits and you’ll do just fine. As for cardio training (running, biking, crosstraining or swimming etc.), you don’t want to do that more than 3 times a week with half an hour max each time.
Weightlifting:
I’d suggest to hit the gym 4 times a week, each workout you will target 2 muscle groups. This way you’ll give your entire body a work out and give 2 muscles group an extra second each week. Do 4 exercises per muscle group and go with 4 sets consisting of 12, 10, 8 and 6 rep. Gradually build up the weight and go for your max with the last set of 6 reps. This is good for starters. Follow this schedule for 8 weeks and you’re good to go. PM me around the that time if you want to continue and get a new weight lifting schedule, I’ll help out.
Workout 1 -> Chest and triceps
Chest:
Exercise 1: Dumbell fly incline (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/pectorals/incline-dumbell-fly/)
Exercise 2: Peck deck machine (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/pectorals/pec-deck/)
Exercise 3: Barbell Incline bench press (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/pectorals/incline-bench-press/)
Exercise 4: Cable crossover (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/pectorals/cable-cross-over/)
Triceps:
Exercise 1:Dumbell single arm extension (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/triceps/dumbell-single-arm-tricep-extension/)
Exercise 2:Barbel skull crusher (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/triceps/skull-crusher/)
Exercise 3: Push up close grip (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/triceps/close-grip-press-up/)
Exercise 4: Smith machine close grip press (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/triceps/close-grip-smith/)
Workout 2 -> Shoulders and legs
Shoulders:
Exercise 1: Lateral raise seated (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/deltoids/seated-lateral-raise/)
Exercise 2: Machine shoulder press (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/deltoids/machine-shoulder-press/)
Exercise 3: Dumbell upright row (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/deltoids/dumbell-upright-row/)
Exercise 4: Machine seated row wide grip (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/lats/machine-wide-grip-seated-row/)
Legs:
Exercise 1: Leg extension (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/vastus-medialis/leg-extension/)
Exercise 2:Upright leg press (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/hamstrings/upright-leg-press/)
Exercise 3: Leg curl (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/hamstrings/seated-leg-curl/)
Exercise 4: Calf raise (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/calves/standing-calf-raise/)
Workout 3 -> Back and biceps
Back:
Exercise 1: Single arm row (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/lats/dumbell-single-arm-row/)
Exercise 2: Cable lat pull down (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/lats/lat-pull-down/)
Exercise 3: Cable close grip seated row (neutral spine) (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/lats/close-grip-seated-row-neutral-spine/)
Exercise 4: Dumbell pullover (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/pectorals/dumbell-pullover/)
Biceps:
Exercise 1: Dumbell curl seated (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/biceps/seated-curl/)
Exercise 2: Barbell preacher curl (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/biceps/preacher-curl/)
Exercise 3: Barbell standing EZ curl (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/biceps/standing-ez-curl/)
Exercise 4: Cable curl (coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/biceps/cable-curl/)
Schedule:
Monday (Workout 1)
Tuesday (Workout 2)
Wednesday (Workout 3)
Thursday (Rest)
Friday (Workout 1)
Saturday (Rest)
Sunday (Rest)
The second week of course you’ll start monday with workout 2 and for the third week you’ll start with workout 3 etc etc.
As for the abs, I prefer to do those at home when I wake up and before I go to bed. Just regular crunches.
Cardio:
Keep that to 3 times a week max half an hour each time. Interval sprinting is great, you can also go biking, swimming, you name it. Just push yourself while doing it each, no pussy cardio training. I like to mountainbike myself every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I live near a hilly forest which gives me a challenging cardio training. You decide for yourself what is best.
B. Eating
This is very important, if you are working out to gain muscle you’ll also need to properly feed yourself in order to fuel your body for being able to do so. Without eating properly you’ll just be wasting you’re time at the gym. You will want to stick to a 6 times a day diet which provides you with enough calories consisting of the right carbohydrate/protein and fat ratio.
Here are some useful links:
gain-weight-muscle-fast.com/six-meals-a-day.html
stronglifts.com/20-super-foods-you-need-to-build-muscle-lose-fat/
Google is your friend for more information.
I am also staying away from alcohol. Drinking gave me pain in the balls last time I tried it. And besides that, alcohol is bad anyway if you intend to build muscle.
C. Resting
This is also very important. You need to give your body time to recover from the work out so you’re gonna be building more muscle. What you’re basically doing is breaking down your body with the work out, when you are resting and properly feeding your body your body will be recovering and become stronger. So don’t be doing doing any strength training on the resting days or anything. Also try to sleep around 10 pm every day and get around 8 hours of sleep. I know this part sucks for everyone, my sleep still is bad too but it hasn’t prevented me from becoming bigger and stronger. Just take what you can get.
Stick to this regimen and you will make progress, progress comes with time, commitment and perseverance.[/i]
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.
I was already working out prior to taking finasteride as well as when I was taking it. After I crashed though I lost a lot of muscle and got really depressed, I basically didn’t do shit for about 2 months. I really had to get my act back together and started working out again early june, it really felt like starting over from scratch. From that point on though I kept following the regimen as posted in my last message and became more dedicated than I had ever been before.
Brain fog: Gone
Erections: Strong and have no problem keeping it up. I still don’t pop em spontaneously like I used to though, which used to be all the time and everywhere.
Sleep: Though improved, it still sucks. I still keep waking up at least 3 times each night. Good thing is though that I feel a lot more rested when I do get up to start my day. Initially after crashing I’d feel like a trainwreck after getting up to start my day.
Weight: Currently weighing 205 pounds. At my worst after crashing and losing muscle I weighed 168 pounds, so I’ve gained a lot of weight. No fat though, pure muscle gain. Had my body fat percentage measured last week, mine is 12%, that’s a normal fat percentage for athletes.
Umm I’m not really sure. I’ve read how people stated they could pinch their dick and not feel a thing, it’s never been like that for me. I do remember though in the early days after crashing waking up with an occasional morning erection but not noticing it until touching my dick because I just didn’t feel it was there. I guess you could say I lost sensitivity and it has returned.
thanks for the info 
How is shrinkage for you now?
Have you researched your shbg level? Its at the high end of the range.
It’s been around 2 months since my last post, I figured I’d post an update on how things have been so far and share some thoughts with you people.
Since my last post I paid a visit to an urologist. I told him all my symptoms in full detail, he listened to my story and then concluded what I was saying is not possible at all and I am best off visiting a sexologist. He checked my testicles anyway with an echo test and he concluded my balls were perfectly healthy. That’s about all the help I got from that stuck-up asshole.
I also had another bloodtest done via my GP to check all my thyroid hormones. It turns out one month prior to taking finasteride I had my thyroid hormones checked. The recently taken blood test came back though with results pretty much identical to the one taken one month prior to taking finasteride.
I’ve had a sport’s doctor look at my body and do some tests. According to him I’m a perfectly fine strong young man. He did some research on finasteride concluded there is no way I could have ever been damaged by this drug, especially not with my short term use. He does think however my body reacted very heavily to it and has thrown my system out of whack which takes a lot of time for it to recover. I also discussed the possibility of hormonal imbalances or androgen insensitivity/inactivity. He said that’s in no way possible, if it was I wouldn’t be lifting weights as heavy as I do and in no way would have the big amount of muscle mass I have.
To this day I’m still visiting a physiotherapist for my knee problems. His treatment is really helping me with this. Turns out I have the typical “soccer legs” which is giving me my knee pains. I also discussed my finasteride use with him in relation to my problems and he is 100% sure it is caused by finasteride, no doubt on his mind. I can’t really write down what he said has happened since I have no knowledge about this. But he went in detail though about the chemical reaction it has had on my body and why I am experiencing the problems I’m having. But this right here though explains the joint pains and popping which everybody is experiencing I’m sure. As for the knee pain the correct term is “patella femoral syndrome”. The same thing is happening for all the other joints as well. The tension on the tendons is way too high which makes it pop and grind over the joint as I make certain movements.
This man has really been of big help and support. He also shares the belief it is my system that is out of whack which is causing all my problems. He told me he knows about cases from people who take cholesterol lowering medication and end up with similar problems because their system being out of whack. He says recovering is gonna take time though, expect at least a year. What we’ve been discussing a lot from all the symptoms I have is the sleep though. I’ve explained to him how I can only sleep 3 hours max and wake up constantly throughout the night. This part is crucial and he thinks without getting proper sleep I’m stuck in this vicious circle which prevents me from recovering. The bad sleep also explains the muscle tremors/twitching I am still experiencing to this.
So as time goes on, I’m every day becoming more convinced fixing the bad sleep might be the key here. Ever since taking this crap propecia I haven’t slept properly a single night. Never have I slept more than 3 hours ever since. Never did I wake up feeling refreshed either, quite the opposite actually, I feel more tired waking up than I did when falling asleep. Hell, it’s not as bad as it initially was, but I still wake up feeling completely broken sometime, my sleep still fucking sucks.
Anyone has any thoughts on the part sleep is playing in the big picture of PFS?
But yea, what I’ve seen improving over time:
No shrinkage. Only thing I notice to this day is how it can be unusually large and soft in flaccid state.
That should indicate possible thyroid hormonal imbalances right? If so then that’s out of the question, no lead there.
Hey Blunted,
I’m thinking the same thing as you regarding sleep being a huge part of the problem. I remember the first time I took cod liver oil (liquid) and vit d3, I slept the best I ever have in my entire life it felt like. I woke up the next day and everything seemed to have cleared up… but at that time I masturbated 2 days in a row and then I crashed again, only to have the cod liver oil +vit d3 to never have the same effect. But… I do have dreams now on a consistent basis every night from taking cod liver oil, so that could really help you.
I have read other people’s accounts and the lack of sleep does seem like it has a huge impact. I think it’s pretty interesting that your doc said that withotu the sleep, you won’t get better… that’s crazy.
It’s funny I read this now because only 2 hours ago, my mom showed me her sleep apnea machine which I’m going to give a try. sleep apnea is basically this problem where when my mom goes to sleep, she literally isn’t sleeping at all and she wakes up exhausted and is always tired all the time. a lot of her problems are similar to people with bad body fatigue as when i described what i had to her, she said it was similar to wht she has… so this is why i wanted to try her machine she has
anyway, the machine i don’t know how it works, but i think it lets you sleep better by forcign more air into your body… i have to buy a mask for it because it is missing, but it might help on the sleep.
let us know if you find any more info on how to sleep better… another big thing that seems like it could hold some air that people talk about on here is GHB ,since it basically knocks you the hell out… but not sure about it because i haven’t done research on it
From Wiki:
Basically SHBG binds to free testosterone making it biologically inactive, thus lowering the amount of free testosterone that’s available for your body to use. There are some supplements and possibly other things associated with lowering SHBG though I cannot speak to the efficacy or risks to taking them.
Hmm that’s interesting, I used to take vit d3 myself as well as fish oil but it didn’t do anything at all for my sleep. Only thing I’ve tried so far for my sleep is melatonin at 3 mg but that doesn’t do anything either.
What I’m guessing the problem is fucked up sleep phases and disrupted sleep/wake cycles due to finasteride messing around with GABA and NO. This might also be prolonging or even preventing us to recover from the sides caused by finasteride. After months of living with this PFS condition that would be my best bet, judging from my personal experience.
My thyroid hormone levels both pre- and post- fin are identical, my testosterone levels are within the upper third of the range and my testicles are perfectly healthy. To me it seems to point in another direction than this being a hormonal imbalance or something like that.
It was my physiotherapist though who said fixing the sleep problem is of great importance in this ordeal. Though my GP as well as a good friend of mine who is a medicine student both surely agree.
My GP didn’t believe my story at first but he has since come around and is helping me out to fix this shit. He also recently filled in an official complaint about my side effects due to finasteride, I was pretty pleased with that. It feels good to finally be taken seriously. But anyway, I discussed my sleeping issues with him, I’m now getting an appointment at a sleep center. I hope they can do a sleep study for me there because I’m 100% sure that will bring something to light. I’m also hoping they can prescribe me GHB like you said:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1286&start=0
Reading this thread surely makes it worthwhile to look into it. I will keep you posted on it.
As for the sleep apnea machine, I’m really hoping it will help you man.
I don’t think this is the issue for me. My testosterone levels are in the upper third of the range. If anything related to low or biologically inactive testosterone was going on it would be physically impossible to have the huge muscle mass I do or lift weights as heavy as I do. Never in my life, not even pre- fin, have I ever been this muscled and strong. This also makes me think finding a solution to the our PFS condition lies not in treatments for hormone levels but somewhere else.
When are you going for the sleep study? i am very interested in any results. GHB/ Xyrem is absolutely worth a try.
antiaging-systems.com/articles/140-discover-the-regenerative-effects-of-ghb-the-elixir-of-life
Now that my life is relatively stress free i am sleeping throughout the night but only if i go to bed very late, for example 4 am. If i go to bed at say, 10 pm then i wake up a number of times or at least once.
Do you dream much?
Yeah, I’m going to get a sleep study too once I get on this insurance program cuz I can’t afford… might be a few months…
I just want to make clear though that what I took was LIQUID cod liver oil, not fish oil capsules that most people take… there’s a big difference in them, liquid is much more potent… not sure if yuo took that or not
Yeah, the NO things makes sense too and is something I’m actively looking at… but having trouble finding natural sources that are said to increase it, best bet i can find so far is flavonoids that help increase it, exercise as well…
I’m still waiting to hear back from that sleeping center so I can’t say yet. The first appointment is going to be an intake however, I will only get a sleep study done if they find it necessary. But if my sleeping problems don’t apply, I do not know what would. I will surely keep you guys posted if I have anything to report.
That’s interesting, ever since crashing I’ve consistently been going to bed around 10 to 12 pm. The best sleep I had ever since crashing however, was after a night of going out when I went to sleep around 3 or 4 am as well. I’ve been trying to make sense of why I slept so well that night, but it only adds up to me now because you are telling this. There might be something to this. I remember back in august my blood test showed a high level of cortisol, perhaps it’s related.
Yes, I am regularly having really bizarre, frighting dreams. I sometimes wake up feeling really bad and weird because of what I dreamed. Other odd things I notice about my sleep is how I can only sleep for 3 hours max, I never wake up feeling refreshed. When I wake up after sleeping less than an hour I usually have a boner, when I sleep for 3 hours I don’t. And I feel like I am never reaching a deep state of sleep, I always sleep very light.
I think out of all the varying symptoms people with PFS are experiencing, the sleeping issues are pretty universal. I think when more people with PFS get a sleep study done we might have solid indisputable evidence to back up our claims. It would certainly be very valuable for finding a cure as well as the legal actions against Merck.
Yea I took fish oil tabs, they were liquid though and dissolve. I’ll give the liver oil a try though and see if it does me any good.
That certainly could explain the progress I’ve made. I don’t know what the exact cause of my improvements are with exercising, but it could be the raise of testosterone as well as NO, who knows.
I also read a lot of people are doing better on raw food/non-processed food diets, this could also have a positive effect on NO as you say:
ehow.com/info_7870075_foods-rich-nitric-oxide.html
Definitely worth looking into, leave no stone unturned.
Curious if any of you had the sleep study? Did it show any abnormalities?
I had one, they noted my REM time was shorter than normal but they brushed it off. They said my short REM was prob due to me sleeping somewhere unusual. I kinda doubt that.
Do you mean sleeping at irregular times? No matter what they say to brush it off though, it’s all bs I’m 100%.
As I can tell for myself, before taking finasteride I slept like a baby every night no exception, no matter what stress I was going through. I take finasteride, ever since that day I haven’t had a proper night of sleep nor have I been able to sleep for a period longer than 3 hours absolute max.
I’m curious, could you describe your sleep?
Sry, I need to change my settings to let me know if a reply is made or something. I keep missing these
They said my shortened REM sleep was probably due to me sleeping @ a sleep study and not my own bed (not a change in time). I call BS. I assume they have no explanation for shortened REM sleep phases so they blow it off.
Describe my sleep:
I go to bed the same time (9:30pm) and wake @ 6:30am 98% of days
I seem to sleep great the first half of the night, not waking up at all. I get up to pee usually around 3am. I can go back to sleep but I wake up about 5-8 times. I usually always have vivid dreams in-between and every time I wake up I feel the need to turn to a new position, but I fall back asleep usually.
My sleep was getting a lot better over the summer. Was sleeping pretty good about 5 days a week. Maybe due to sun and a lot of outside exercise (running). Now that its winter, my sleep has been going to crap again. I assume from lack of sun and less exercise.
Has anyone else on here had a sleep study? Anyone consistently use something that helps there sleep?
Same same
I fall off asleep no problems nowadays (for 9 months i had to take sleeping tablets (melatonin, 5HTP etc.)). However, now I always wake about 3am to pee, then wrestle with sleep for the rest of the morning. So i’d say i’m getting about 4 hours quality sleep per night, 4 hours pretty shit.
How’s your penis curvature? Did it improve?
1 more thing I should have mentioned. I took ambien during my sleep study. I took it before bed and @ 3am or so and I told the doctor that I took it. If I did it over again I would like to have a sleep study without medication of any kind.
Have you had any improvement?
Hey guys, it’s been a while since I last posted, november 29 2011 was the last time. I can’t say I’ve had any major improvements since then. Progress comes slow and steady, but when I look at how much I’ve improved already ever since my crash I can say I’m pretty pleased with how far I’ve come already. There’s still a tough road ahead but nothing is going to stop me, I’ll get there.
Since my last post I’ve seen one thing progressing more than the rest, which is my sleep. Though I still have nights where I sleep as bad as before I now also have nights where I’m sleeping 6 to 7 hours straight. I’m guessing progress with this symptom goes like it did with all other symptoms, a lot of fluctuating between good and bad which over time starts fluctuating more in favor of the good until I see the symptom completely fade away.
Regarding the sleep, it’s taken from my last posts, up until upcoming Tuesday to get an appointment at a sleeping center. Took a whole lot of time but finally I’m gonna go see a sleep specialist. In the meantime, I’ve seen my general practitioner multiple times discussing my situation. He actually agreed to prescribe me xyrem (ghb), but when I went to get it, it turned out you can only get it with a prescription from a specialized sleeping doctor. So I had to wait a couple of months more, until now basically, to try and get a prescription for it at the sleeping center, with my GP supporting the decision.
I’m having pretty high hopes of the positive effects xyrem will have. I’ve been reading a lot on this forum of the possible neurological damage finasteride has caused and the potency xyrem has to repair such shit. And not to mention the recoveries/progress reported by using xyrem. When I look at how far I’ve come already I feel this might actually be the final push in the right direction for full recovery. At first I figured it would just be the sleep that might do the trick in getting to recovery, but there’s so much things this stuff does good to your body which we PFS sufferers could desperately need.
steroid.com/GHB.phtml
I’ll just leave it at that with the bro science I’m presenting here. But yea, I really feel this stuff will be hugely beneficial to me.
I’ve also been reading a lot on this forum about the possibility of androgen resistance being at play. I can’t speak for anyone but myself of course so that’s what I’ll do. But my particular case makes this seem very unlikely. I’ve discussed this possibility with a sport’s doctor who I’ve informed of PFS and the ongoing study. He says if that were the case I would be in no way shape or form working out the way I do so he thinks that would be very unlikely. I’ve grown from 168 pounds at my worst after crashing to now weighing 215 pounds. According to him such progress in building muscle with my time frame is extremely rare, even if you were to be taking steroids. Funny thing is I’ve had so many people come up to me asking me if I am taking steroids seeing as how I am putting muscle on so fast. My labwork from back in august last year also showed pretty high testosterone levels while blood wasn’t even taken in the morning, which it should have for getting the best testosterone levels. Taking this in consideration, one could say there is nothing wrong with me hormonally. In fact, my story would fit the profile of a high testosterone level guy more than anything. And despite all this, I’m still suffering from PFS. How does my story fit in the picture of the androgen resistance theory? (I don’t mean this as an attack of any sort, just keeping the discussion open. There’s no way I could ever thank you guys enough for all the work you put into this. There’s actually studies taking place, that’s just beautiful).
To give a visual of the progress I’m making, here’s a picture of myself I took using a webcam, the quality is pretty poor and the lighting doesn’t exactly show a whole lot definition but at the moment it’s the best I can show you guys =P:
I’ll be looking to cut down my fat percentage to around 8 or 9% later on to get a more ripped look. Last time I checked was back in august, I was at 12% back then. After months of bulking up I’m guessing I may have put on a little more body fat, but that’s pretty common for anyone that’s bulking up, PFS or not.
I’m hoping this may serve as motivation and hope for those who are feeling really down an depressed. I too had major muscle loss after crashing and look what I’ve achieved. PFS is not the end of the road, it’s just a very bad bump, I’m a 100% certain full recovery is possible. Hang in there people, and God bless you all, good things will come with time.