@Ozeph as it turns out… Oxaloacetate made me feel really weird. I think that my theory about to much Glutamate is a bust. I believe that taking the Oxaloacetate actually lowered both Glutamate and GABA. I had a horrible feeling of low GABA. It also made drinking coffee feel almost toxic. I was like totally wired or something. I think that our issue is probably not an excess of Glutamate after all but something to do with the mechanism that converts Glutamate to GABA (the enzyme GAD) or something with how electrical signals are managed in neurons. I’m still researching the latter of the 2. I will tell you that 2 nights ago I tried 100mg of Gabapentin which does not agonize GABA receptors but does stimulate GAD to produce GABA from Glutamate. It also modulates and inhibits Glutamate. I fell asleep on the couch sitting up. Like someone flipped a light switch on my brain. I woke up about 6 hours later sitting up perfectly on the couch. It was really weird. I had a few beers earlier in the evening and I think it was “strong” mix to say the least. I will try Gabapentin again this evening to see if I can get a much more controlled transition to sleep. It would be a good tool to use a couple times a week to keep the Benzo / Ambien use to a minimum. I only too 100mg of Gabapentin which is the lowest dose.
Interesting results. A bit dangerous, be careful man.
Gabapentin. I wonder If I could find that. Gaba in the main neurotransmitter in the hypothalamus, and that’s where most of the body’s hormones, enzymes, neurotransmitters etc… are regulated.
You’ve got insomnia, worst than me, and something that stimulate GAD knocked you out.
Allopregnanolone is what usually regulates GABA, so presumably triggers or not the production of GAD. Although I’m speculating, I haven’t done research specific to GAD and Allopregnanolone. I just know that 5ari messed up the production of Allopregnanolone as it takes both 5ar and 3a-HSD to transform progesterone into Allopregnanolone. No Allo, no GAD, No GABA.
I also know that I messed myself up with collagen peptide, which is 30% Glycine, which converts in Allylglycine, a potent GAD inhibitor. So one mystery solved, that’s why Collagen is not good for us.
I’ll look Gabapentin up… Looks like I can buy generic copies of it from Canada (my country) and they would gladly smuggle it for me in Thailand. I think Canadian pharmaceutical companies are just as unethical as US ones. Suits me…Lol.
I’ll do my research before taking it. Presumably, if taken carefully (not too often, cycling it etc…), it could reboot GAD production. I will also look what is the elimination process of Allylglycine and see if I can boost that up.
I was talking to a doctor who I’m seeing (a psych just to help if I need it) and she specializes in sleep issues. Many of her patients when she practiced in a hospital were schizophrenic and experienced serious sleep issues as bad or if not worse than we do. She said that there is a theory that the body can create antibodies for GAD essentially attacking the enzyme that creates GABA. Testing with Gabapentin is a reasonable course of action. I agree… cycle it. As for my sleep… I went to sleep (while not great) last night on .5mg of Klonopin so I dont think my sleep situation is worse than yours going by what you take nightly.
I know we keep discussing Allopregnanolone but I dont think that is our issue. I think if it were, you and I would have serious depression. I think our Allo is probably OK but our issue lies downstream. I’ll let you know how my second trial of Gabapentin goes. Aslo… there is another more bio-available version of Gabapentin called Pregbalin which I think stays in your system longer. Gabapentin is cleared from your system in 6 hours. I’m guessing you would get longer sleep in Pregbalin.
Pregabalin has a lower tolerance than Gabapentin. I’ve read it has no withdrawal symptoms but other sources says it does, although less than Benzos. It is also used to treat benzodiazepine dependent insomniac like me.
It has a similar action to Gabapentin but seems superior in many ways. Also, it’s sold over the counter and very cheap in Thailand. I’ll give it a try.
I’ll be very interested to hear your experiences with Pregabalin. I tried Gabapentin last night and it did help me fall asleep but I had weird heart pounding. I have found that some meds cause me heart rythim issues. I wonder if Pregabalin would work better. I suspect that Gabapentin lowers blood pressure. I’m also in the middle of a 3 day water fast so that might have been an issue.
Go easy on the Pregabalin because I do know they potentiate anything else your taking… ie Klonopin. So its going to make the Klonopin seem more powerful.
Look what I found: Blunted's Story
By the way it’s dangerous with alcohol.
I will use Gabapentin to tapper off Klonopin in 5 days without withdrawal symptoms. I spent the whole days studying clinical data and protocole.
Then I will have to be on Gabapentin from then on, maybe using Pregabalin for the daytime and Gabapentin for bedtime. Apparently it makes you more sleepy.
But I’ll probably switch them around to see what’s best. They’re almost the same except 300 mg Gabapentin =75 mg Pregabalin.
It’s not ideal but it way better than Klonopin, which I took for a year already while it’s not meant for more than 3-4 weeks.
At least Gabapentin can be used for many years and withdrawn within 1-3 weeks.
Without meds, my doctor told me to tapper off Klonopin for 8 months…
I’ll tell you the result. I start the detox on Friday night.
@Ozeph I would be careful with your plan. I know you do tons of research but as I understand it, Klonopin has some type of “half life” if you want to call it that…where it stays in your fat cells. I have heard that it takes more than 5 days for 1 dose of Klonopin to clear from your fat cells and exit your system… The withdrawal takes a long time. I wish you the best of luck but please be careful.
How long does clonazepam 1 mg stay in your urine?
This means that it will take between one to two days for just 50% of Klonopin to leave your system. Based on the estimate of clonazepam’s 30 to 40-hour half-life, Klonopin is likely to stay in your system for approximately six to nine days after you’re your final dose.
Half life is 60 hours, it does stay in the fat, it does take 5 days to clear half of it and 9 to clear it all.
But that doesn’t matter. Gabapentin, 300 mg every 8 hours, keep the GABA receptors full of GABA and there’s no withdrawal symptoms from Benzodiazepine (alcohol, barbiturates and all hypnotic drugs)
I’ll have to take Gabapentin, 300 mg every 8 hours for at least 2 weeks. After that, if I don’t have anxiety, I can take it only at night for sleeping.
Maximum dosage 4800 mg per day, no precedents of overdose on it alone although combined with other drugs it’s another story.
I should do this in a hospital but what’s the point. Plus I can always take 0.25mg of Klonopin if the cravings are too strong.
What choice do I have ? Gabapentin (especially Pregabalin) have less side effects, are less addictive, less withdrawal symptoms if any and can be taken for years.
And if I can’t do it, I still have a bottle full of benzo to draw back to… That’d be too bad though.
I still thinking that the solution is to inject our fucking brain with neural stem cell to replace whatever fin screw.
What if it didn’t screw cells but only neurotransmitters, neurosteroids, hormones and enzymes ?
and what do you think that produce neurotransmitters, neurosteroids, hormones and enzymes ? if no cell.
I don’t want to take thread OT, but I’ve sometimes wondered if my PAS is actually just long term after effects of having taken clonazepam daily for 4 years.
My doctor had me on it in retrospect to cover his ass while he had me on Welbutrin (Welbutrin has a reputation for sometimes causing seizures). Took it twice a day for 4 years and my PAS symptoms did become most acute right around the time I finally discontinued it.
Sorry. I speak French as a first language and acronyms evade me. What is PAS ?
If there’s an hormone imbalance, a healthy cell will receive the signal to produce hormones that are not needed. The hormones are signals telling cells what to do. We have two systems doing that: the nervous system and the Hormone system (the endocrine system) and they work in tandem.
I think it’s more of an endocrine imbalance but we cannot rule out there is actual cell damage.
(actually there is an autoimmune response destroying healthy cells deemed to be unneeded in the new balance that was formed by fin or the withdrawal of it)
Post Accutane Syndrome. No one ever told me benzos are supposed to be short- term only. I found out myself on Wikipedia after taking them daily for 4 years.
@Ozeph - What do you mean “actually there is…”?? Is there proof there is an autoimmune issue that’s destroying healthy cells?
Well, unless I just don’t get it, guys whose genitals are shrinking massively are losing cells. I mean if you had balls big as eggs and now they’re the size of grapes, some cells must have been lost.
The immune system eating used up cells and sick ones is normal. When it attacks healthy ones, it’s an auto immune disease.
It doesn’t mean it happens to all of us. And it can also be reversible. New cells can be added and grape sized balls can become egg sized again. That’s what happens during puberty.
Yeah ! Doctors prescribe them long term like it’s nothing.
I’ve been on .5mg clonazepam for 3 years now. I start to notice withdrawal symptoms after not using it for 3-4 days at even this small of a dose.