Are we fighting a lost cause?

Dont give up hope we have the same name and i’m recovering very well now

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I had that same feeling and its because testosterone has no effect in your body cuz something is kicking it out of your androgen receptors

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After years or researching, I contacted a doctor through instagram who deals with adrenal fatigue. After he talked to me said can I ask you one thing?!

He said “Why are you looking only at hormones?! Why are you not looking at basic blood tests as well?”

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please pm about how you believe you got this? your list of symptoms? how long you had it for, and how you are improving?

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Did i pm you the right way i think i can help you

OP claims that he was originally very androgenic:

Suddenly at around this age Is when I would say I reached my peak! I felt like super man. I put on muscle mass, My muscles felt full, great libido, confidence, yelling on the field etc… I had the mindset of Mike Tyson. I was going to be successful and I don’t give a fck who or what is against me I will make my dreams a reality.

which supports the theory I outlined in this thread:

I dont know anymore than anybody else here, but I do think its possible that @joey10 had a high density of androgen receptors (hence high androgenization) and then taking the anti-fungal cream may have suddenly dropped his hormone levels, spiked his androgen receptors and then caused his body to freak out and silence the receptors. That being said, all of this is conjecture since I dont know the exact chronology of his symptoms and when he used the anti-fungal cream, as well as not even knowing what kind of anti-fungal cream he used and if it was anti-androgenic or not. Anyways my only point is that I think that his prior high level of androgenization is interesting in the context of him acquiring a PFS like syndrome.

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Yes u r


One thing I have wondered if we have a hypersensitivity to testosterone rising too much too fast. Or DHT rising too much too fast

Taking DHT inhibitor both of these things can happen. Endocrine system can raise Testosterone attempting to correct what it perceives as an issue when not enough T converting to DHT.

You can come off DHT inhibitor and DHT can rise fast

Maybe when this happens it sets off events that leads to our receptors adjusting in a way that leaves us unable to respond to our hormones.

Maybe if you are prone to this sort of thing and are young, in good shape, working out, taking your non hormone basic body builder Supps like you mentioned your higher than average natural Testosterone and or DHT levels surge resulting in the same thing that happened to us.

There would be some underlining mechanism that makes us prone to this happening and the only way the theory could be tested is if we had labs prior to your crash

In my opinion if we all had pre PFS hormone labs to review we would have found patterns in us that would have sent us in new directions looking for the answer

Just a theory

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Hey @MasterofPuppets, please elaborate on this. What research is leading you to this conclusion?

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What part of it do you need me to clarify?

Can you help elaborate on something ‘kicking testosterone out of the androgen receptors’? What exactly does this mean and what research is showing this?

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If your theres enough estradiol in your system what the estrogen does it kick dht and t out of dominance and then estradiol binds to the androgen receptors and upregulates them for itself and downregulates the male androgen receptors. Estradiol also converts testosterone to more estradiol so once your system starts making testosterone again because your receptors are so filled with estrogens your test just keeps converting and this is why the condition worsens. All it is is a form of estrogen dominance that for some reason your body cant reverse in its current state. Estrogen dominance also usually doesnt show up on a bloodtests and most endocrinologists treat for it based on your symptoms because they know your system was probably flooded with estrogen and created this effect after blocking dht. I can probably find some information on this if you’d like i’ll put a link here.


This theory seems simple enough and definitely seen estrogen dominance mentioned on these forums for a while now. If you have any specific research that might unravel this a little more, it would sure be appreciated. I’ve been Googling as well.

Couple questions:

  1. There must be a way to test for Estrogen dominance. How can one prove they are estrogen dominant, are there any tests other than the presence of symptoms? This seems far fetched.
  2. How does this not show up in blood tests? If your testosterone keeps getting converted into estradiol, then this increase in estradiol would show up on blood tests, no?
  3. When taking an AI such as Arimidex, would this not kill estrogen dominance? When taking an AI, this doesn’t seem to do much for most users, including myself.
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I think it is very strange…

I have low e2 levels in the blood. As well as all the low e2 symptoms, numb genitals, dry tired eyes, lack of emotions … not depressed but not ecstastic…
Thing is my body odor smells very estrogenic. Its almost as if the body is trying to excrete Estrogen at an alarming rate and it is not exiting the body through the sweat glands or something?

So, estrogen has a higher affinity for the androgen receptor than androgens?

Yo! Long long long lurker on this forum. @joey10 Your post made me create an account. Dude I have the same exact labs and symptoms.

Savage athlete in college (multiple awards and pro tryout), now in PA school. Classic story of high high libido, passion, etc. I took accutane when I was younger, noticed side effects and stopped and recovered. However I went on a huge weight cut two years ago AND took astaxanthin and my multi has 25 mg of saw (I know not a lot) and I crashed same symptoms and same labs. Damn man you aren’t alone


Do you also leak urine? (stress incontinence) I also feel like I have a blockage in my right testicle, seminal vesicle groin. Its like if I were to have something vibrate in my lap it wouldnt vibrate in the right side??

Do you have dry tired eyes?
Do you have to wash your penis anymore? I do not have discharge like before from my penis…

I used to have that incontinence feeling. Dry eyes, don’t sweat.

I went to derm cause I sweated so much and now I can’t lol fuck me.

how old are you?
How long have you been dealing with these issues??

I also had severe restless leg syndrome for about 5-6 months but it went away about a 1.5 years ago…

  1. Yeah I had restless legs too that subsided. Before I knew this shit, I saw the top endo in the world at Mayo Clinic (William young) and he was fucking useless