Are our symptoms due to a chroic infection?

General Discussion
#181

We have data stored away somewhere showing around 5-10 current PFSers with low Gluathione levels. Of the # that had tested, 100% were VERY low. The th1/th2 ratio and Cytokine activity is of interest to me of late.

Cytokines released by immunological cells during viral infections or cancer therapy produce symptoms of sickness behavior, typically including decreased appetite, anorexia, fatigue and sleep disturbances, retardation of motor activity, reduced interest to physical and social environments, loss of libido, impaired cognitive abilities, dysphoria, anhedonia, and depressed mood

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15694227

Infections are associated with a specific behavioral pattern that includes hypomotility, hypophagia, increased sleep, decreased libido, and decreased exploration. … Because the secretion of these cytokines is induced by LPS and infections, it is possible that they mediate the behavioral responses to infection.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9629284

 -"TNF-alpha plays a detrimental role in erectile function"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19170842

 -" TNF causes a decrease in eNOS promoter activity"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14555463

Many of the things that people have had short-term inmprovements from are inhibitors of cytokines as a whole or specific - or help rebalance the th1/th2 ratio.

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#182

That is what I have been saying.

I have red dots in my pharynx, pretty obvious there is some kind of infection.

You have also tested high for antibodies for infections.

But people often say it is not the microbe it is the terrain. I think this is the case for me.

The question i believe we need to answer is why did we crash and others did not.

#183

update from me is I have been taking DMSA to remove heavy metals attempting to boost low glutathione.

I notice some improvements, less pain in my ribs, legs less tired and the acne on my back which started after fin crash is really clearing up. 80% better. So like everyone I must have some heavy metal load.

I have also found out that I have a ring in my heart and a wire on my chest bone. Had an infected wound on my leg when I was 9, the bacteria went to my heart valve.

I have bad pain in the left side of my head and the diagnosis is allergic sinisitus but allergist can not find any allergies. I believe the the red rash in my mouth, on my foot and the sinus symptoms are all related. They are caused by my high eosinophils which started i guess when I crashed.

Still getting small red dots in my throat. Not sure what this is

I am wondering if the gutathione depletion from fin caused an immune ssytem shift and now my body is attacking something foreign in my body.

I am still in a bad state, very bad muscle weakess, 0 libido, pale,all the same stuff.

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#184

So I have confirmed I have silicone in my heart. I believe this is the cause of my problem. Women with breast implant illness and problems from the silicone mirena IUD have all the same problems.

I had the ring put in in 2003, in 2006 when stressed at work I felt nausea in the morning without explanation. It pretty much went away. Took fin in 2008 body crashed. High eosinophils since then without explanation. Negative for parasites, negative for common allergens.

Eosinophils attacking my left side. Left side sinus pain, left side rash in mouth, left side rash on foot. The ring is in my heart which is on the left side.

Fin causes glutathione depletion which damages the immune system, I believe this caused my body to develop an IgE reaction to the silicone.

I believe this is causing immune dysfunction which is enabling chronic infections such as viruses to reactivate. This is why I get red dots in the throat etc.This is a common theme with people sick from breast implants. Candida of the tongue etc.

Will have to confirm with a skin patch test.

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#185

Had a skin test for chromium, nickel, cobalt and titanium. They were negative.

Steel also contains maganese and molybdenem. They do not seem to patch test for these.

I did get hives from the patch test, doc said could be from bandage.

I also have the silicone and plastic stitching in my body.

I also deveoped 2 more of the red dots in my throat and a lot of fungus on the tongue during the testing. I believe these are opportunistic infections caused by greater imblances.

#186

So I do not think I am allergic to the nickel as i put some stainless steel on my skin for some days and got no reaction.

So that leaves a couple things.

Silicone ring or plastic.

Mercury vaccines which I had in the same year of installing the ring.

I was given many vaccines before going on holidays. I know for sure 3 contained 100ug of thimerasol each. Others contained mercury or aluminum.

There is not much else I can think of that contributed to my PFS crash.

My brother has aspergers so I am probably hypersensitive to mercury:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3697751/

As for the chronic infections I thikn they are a product of a greater imbalance just like with AIDs etc. Sick people get candida on their tongue because of an immune system break down etc.

At this point it seems my only option is to try and clear any heavy metals in the body.

Taking DMSA is the only thing that helped me to some extent. I developed back acne weeks after PFS crash and taking 90 6mg DMSA pills fixed that. It also gave me some energy back. Far from recovery. Perhaps I will need like 10 grams of DMSA taken over a year or so to get to a lot better state.

You can see a poll on solvePFS that showed everyone has crimson crescents. These are caused by high cytokines. You will feel sick if you have high levels of cytokines.

#187

At this point I believe the problem was - Genetic sensitivity to mercury - Lots of vaccines in 2003 - Develop strange symptoms - 2008 Take finasteride and suddenly immune system crashes humeral immunity kicks in. Develop all pfs symptoms from immune system.

Time doesnt help because the predisposing factor does not get resolved. Fin was the straw that broke the cammels back.

Once you have the immune system malfunctionioning chronic infections like yeast and viruses thrive.

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#188

I am in the midst of both sickness and recovery peak. Not exactly a coincidence. Preceded by a bunch of sex (which might have made me sick) the day before. The link is definitely there or there in whatever subset of cases. Wouldn’t be surprised if I was fully recovered within 2-3 weeks.

#189

Evidence implicating a role for the proinflammatory cytokines in the etiology of depression has been provided by studies on the changes in IL-1, IL-6, and TNFα in depressed patients and also by the effects of IFNα on psychiatrically normal individuals being treated for hepatitis or a malignancy. Such studies have implicated these cytokines as causative factors in the symptoms of major depression. These symptoms include depressed mood, anxiety, cognitive impairment, lack of motivation, loss of libido, sleep disturbance, and deficits in short-term memory. Such symptoms usually disappear once the plasma cytokine concentrations return to normal.69 These changes appear to be a consequence of the neurotransmitter and endocrine changes induced by the cytokines, rather than the pathological condition for which the treatment has been administered.70,71 It is perhaps not surprising therefore to find that the symptoms of depression frequently occur in patients recovering from a chronic infection, those with multiple sclerosis,72 allergies,73 and rheumatoid arthritis.74 In all these situations, proinflammatory cytokines are known to be overexpressed75 The initial studies linking depression with an abnormality of the immune system,76 impaired mitogen-stimulated lymphocyte proliferation,77 and reduced NK cell activity78 in untreated depressed patients, showed changes that largely returned to normal once the patient recovered from the depressive episode. Recent research into the immune changes occurring in depression has concentrated on cytokines, soluble cytokine receptors, and plasma acute-phase proteins. For example, positive acute-phase proteins have been shown to increase while the negative acute-phase proteins decreased in depression, changes that are known to be a consequence of the action of IL-6 on liver function.79 In addition, complement proteins (C3,C4) and immunoglobulin M are increased in depressed patients. Such changes are evidence of immune activation involving both the inflammatory cytokines and B-cells that are activated by the proinflammatory cytokines. Further evidence of immune activation in depressed patients is provided by the studies showing that the plasma concentration of IL-1, IL-6, IFNg, soluble IL-6 and IL-2 receptors, and the IL-1 receptor antagonist, are raised. These changes are correlated with a rise in plasma acute-phase proteins.80 Effective antidepressant treatments largely attenuate such immune changes. In addition to the increases in proinflammatory cytokines, there is also evidence of an increased number of T-helper,T-memory, activated T-cells and B-cells that act as a source of the plasma cytokines.81-83 From these changes, it would appear that in depression there is an imbalance between the inflammatory and the anti-inflammatory arms of the immune system, the cytokines from the T1 pathway (such as IFNg) becoming predominant over those of the anti-inflammatory T2 (for example, IL-4) pathway. A recent study has shown that the T3 cytokine, transforming growth factor b1 (TGFβ1) whose function is to re-establish the balance between the T1 and T2 pathways, is increased in depressed patients following effective antidepressant treatment.84 Though TGFβ1 is reported as a regulatory cytokine that keeps the balance between Th1 and Th2 cytokines,85 precisely how the increases in the proinflammatory cytokines are attenuated by TGFβ1 in depressed patients is unclear.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181774/

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#190

Cephalexin (an antibiotic) made my penis go back to normal size when I took it.

#191

I do not seem to be allergic to nickel. I believe my body is still reacting to one of the materials in me. Hopefully it is the steel wire in my chest. Every kind of implant causes chronic inflamation and immune system activation. Propecia depletes glutathione which can initiate a th2 reaction. I think this is what has happened.

#192

It’s been 10 days since I removed 95% of the wire in my chest. My chest hurts from the trauma but seems to feel a lot better but all other symptoms remain. Perhaps my the pain was just because my body is super inflamed.

As every one here has low glutathione, the main issue seems to be to fix this. This will allow your body to fiight chronic infections and will balance the th1/th2 immune system. Many have tried herbs to boost it without much luck, others have tried improving methylation.

The big deplete is toxic metals so I am going to clear these out of my body using DMSA, ALA and DMPS chelation. I have tried this a little on and off and it seems DMSA was the only thing that helped me to some extent. i am going to continue this and use ALA to help mobilize intercellular mercury. So far on ALA and DMSA i ave had 0 red dots in my throat… Before i was sometimes getting 2 per day. ALA alone boosts the glutathione in immune cells leading to an improved immune system.

Fin was probably the final straw, the glutathione depletion from fin led a th2 dominance which = chronic sickness. This is what my blood tests show. Seems the only way to get out of this is to boost glutathione back to healthy levels.

I believe the chonic infections cannot be treated directly at this stage. THey must be treated by improving the immune system. I think the red dots in the throat might be EBV. Otheres here have high levels of EBV antibodies.

#193

Here are some of my indicators of heavy metal toxicity.

  1. 8-Hydroxyguanine over range.
  2. Pyrogutamate over range. - Glutathione depletion
  3. Very imbalanced hair minerals.
  4. Imabalnced urinary minerals.
  5. WHen I put my urine in the sun it turn to a more redish color which indicates high levels of porpharins.
  6. Elevated IGE can be seen in people previously exposed to mercury and also in autistic people.
  7. Some small but noticeable benefit when taking DMSA 6.25mg every 3 hours.

The symptoms of heavy metal toxicity can also been seen in many other conditions in which the immune system is engaged.

#194

Curr Med Chem. 2012;19(23):4000-5.
Glutathione-related factors and oxidative stress in autism, a review.
Ghanizadeh A1, Akhondzadeh S, Hormozi M, Makarem A, Abotorabi-Zarchi M, Firoozabadi A.
I believe we are seeing same glutathione results in PFS. Did we have low glutathone before PFS or did it crash when we crashed?

Author information
Abstract

Autism spectrum disorders are complex neuro-developmental disorders whose neurobiology is proposed to be associated with oxidative stress which is induced by reactive oxygen species. The process of oxidative stress can be a target for therapeutic interventions. In this study, we aimed to review the role of oxidative stress, plasma glutathione (GSH), and related factors as the potential sources of damage to the brain as well as the possible related factors which reduce the oxidative stress. Methylation capacity, sulfates level, and the total glutathione level are decreased in autism. On the other hand, both oxidized glutathione and the ratio of oxidized to reduced glutathione are increased in autism. In addition, the activity of glutathione peroxidase, superoxide dismutase, and catalase, as a part of the antioxidative stress system are decreased. The current literature suggests an imbalance of oxidative and anti-oxidative stress systems in autism. Glutathione is involved in neuro-protection against oxidative stress and neuro-inflammation in autism by improving the anti-oxidative stress system. Decreasing the oxidative stress might be a potential treatment for autism.

#195

Taking antibiotics rises the dht level!
Re Stress: take a look at systemic diseases like cfs:
docplayer.org/31212023-Die-theor … aeren.html

#196

I tested this and mine is over range —

Increased 8-hydroxy-deoxyguanosine, a marker of oxidative damage to DNA, in major depression and myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome.
Maes M1, Mihaylova I, Kubera M, Uytterhoeven M, Vrydags N, Bosmans E.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

There is now evidence that major depression and myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) are accompanied by partially overlapping pathophysiological mechanisms, i.e. activation of various inflammatory and oxidative & nitrosative (IO&NS) pathways.
OBJECTIVE:

The aim of the present study was to examine the urinary excretion of 8-hydroxy-deoxyguanosine (8-OhdG), a marker of oxidative damage to DNA, in depression; ME/CFS; and depression and ME/CFS.
METHODS:

Toward this end, morning urine was sampled for the assays of 8-OHdG and creatinine, in 44 patients with ME/CFS; 25 with major depression; 23 with depression and ME/CFS; and 17 normal controls. Severity of fatigue and somatic symptoms was measured by means of the Fibromyalgia and CFS Rating (FF) scale.
RESULTS:

We found that 49.0% of the variance in the urinary excretion of 8-OHdG was predicted by the regression on creatinine. Consequently, the urinary 8-OHdG excretion should be expressed as the residualized 8-OHdG values after partialling out the effects of creatinine and not by computing the 8-OHdG / creatinine ratio. We found that the residualized urinary excretion of 8-OHdG (adjusted for creatinine) was significantly higher in patients with depression and ME/CFS than in normal controls and all other patients. In the patient group, there were significant correlations between the urinary 8-OHdG and the total score on the FF scale and sadness and flu-like malaise.
CONCLUSIONS:

The findings show increased oxidatively generated DNA damage in patients with major depression and ME/CFS and, therefore, further extent the role played by IO&NS pathways in the pathophysiology of both disorders. Since oxidatively damage to DNA is a risk factor for atherosclerosis and neurodegeneration, our results also explain previous findings on increased cardiovascular morbidity in depression and ME/CFS, and neurodegenerative processes in depression.

#197

We had lower gluth.levels already on fin. So, what exactely was reducing it? Is it the reduction of 5ar 1 or 2 causing the reduction? The gluth.levels post fin seem to be lowered again. Very low.
You cannot detox properly and getting systemic issues by this.
And! Autism is caused also by Alu/Mercury. People getting Gluth.were getting better re symptoms.
A/M.depletes Gluth.levels.
If you want to get better, get Gluthation levels back by detoxing from Metals! First get G Infusions and/or NAC and B vits, some amino acids.

#198

I have been working on heavy metals with DMSA again.

The red dots in my throat are showing up a lot less. Before almost every day. Now maybe once a week.

I suspect they are EBV related. A number of guys here have indicated they have high levels of EBV antibodies.

#199

Is a sauna a good method of metals detox and if yes how often and how long would you have to use a sauna? Considering our weakened pfs state what temperature would you recommend?

#200

If you go to propeciahelp tou can filter users by join date, filter any pre 2010 users into those with over 50 posts and you will find that the majority either explicitly say they have recovered or stop posting. My view is that its very “persistent” as opposed to permanent. Average recovery times seem to range from 2 to 5 years… althought clearly there are a lot of pol who fall outside this too