I should get them tomorrow in the post.
Having a low sodium potassium ratio is a sign of copper tox.
I was told my sodium was low but nothing about my potassium so i presume it is normal. That would give me a low sodium potassium ratio straight of the bat?
I will post when i get them. Also check out that pubmed study i posted…its smack on the money
Yes I read it. It’s an awsome find. Who would have thought that copper is such a potent 5ar inhibitor? And type 2 no less! Add with that the estrogenic effects of copper and it’s the last thing I would want in my body in excess. In theory, copper could be more dangerous than finasteride itself?
Copper the new finasteride? 
What we really need to find out is what is actually in finasteride? What is it that makes it such a potent 5ar inhibitor and if it’s a synthetic copy of somthing else found in nature, then what is it? Dare I say copper?
A link to pyroluria if anyone is interested…its a genetically determined chemical imbalance which results in low zinc and b6.
Symptoms alot like ours
drkaslow.com/html/pyroluria.html
Was reading in another forum …
"What test did you have done to determine you had high copper levels? Did you test for Zinc? High copper could mean a zinc deficiency. There is a condition called pyroluria:
Pyroluria (originally known as malvaria) is a genetic abnormality in hemoglobin synthesis resulting in a deficiency of zinc and vitamin B6. People with pyroluria produce excess amounts of a byproduct from hemoglobin synthesis, called OHHPL (hydroxyhemoppyrrolin-2-one). In these people an excess amount of pyrrole is found in the urine. Associated changes in fatty acid metabolism lead to low levels of arachidonic acid (an omega-6 fatty acid). The presence of pyroluria can have a profound effect on mental and physical health and was first discovered in relation to schizophrenia.
Has anyone been tested for this?
Has anyone come to any conclusion to why most of us are defficent in vitamon d?
Possibly, our digestive tract is not digesting it…(Crohn’s disease, Colitis)
buzzle.com/articles/causes-o … iency.html
Also, when thyroid function is low along with below normal cortisol levels, you can suffer from Vit. D deficiency as well…
A CAUTIONARY NOTE: It is important to make sure your symptoms and blood work are not a result of adrenal insufficiency. Depressed thyroid and depressed adrenal symptoms are very similar. Cortisol, a primary adrenal hormone that is elevated under stress and depressed when the adrenal gland is exhausted, alters TSH and thereby T4 and T3. Alterations in adrenal function alter thyroid function but treating the thyroid will not make the underlying adrenal condition, if it exists, better and may make the situation much worse. A simple, and relatively inexpensive, 24 hour salivary cortisol and DHEA test can rule out (or in) adrenal involvement. Also consider this test if you are currently being treated for thyroid and the results are not what you expected. If you have thyroid disease and are treated with a good combination of T3 and T4 your symptoms should resolve rapidly. Your symptoms will remain, alter, or become worse if adrenal dysfunction is present. The cortisol/DHEA test is available from your physician. It is important that the health care professional you are working with understand this testing, how to interpret it, and how to treat the results, or the testing will be of no value to you.
When T4 or T3 are low the body is less able to convert vitamin D into the active hormone and also cannot convert beta-carotene into retinol, the active form of vitamin A. Frequently there is low production of hydrochloric acid which leads to malabsorption of B-12 and iron. Following diagnosis and treatment with thyroid hormones you can help restore body levels of nutrients by increasing the amounts of these nutrients in food or with supplements for about 2-3 months.
Instead of going to endos and expecting to get cured we should just get them to figure out this one
I found somewhere to get this test done…the symptoms are to close to mine to ignore for me. This condition appears it could be a symptom of high copper(not trying to sell it)which i have already had a high blood test for - 20.9 (12.3-17.3)…maybe someone can snuff out a pyroluria test in the states…might be free for you guys…at least rule it out.
Also just a reminder…ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7738354
Im also pissed off i didnt get my hair results today new zealand post is so slack! 
Maybe tomorrow.
[quoteHas anyone come to any conclusion to why most of us are defficent in vitamon d?
Instead of going to endos and expecting to get cured we should just get them to figure out this one
]
[/quote]
Yes,it is because we are hypo.Most people that are hypo have low vit d because of problems absorbing it.get ur thyroid working properly and ur vit d will go up.
Here is a study that shows coppers effect on estrogen and progesterone receptors in female rabbits(bit different from human males i know but…)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/181276
"Copper
Copper can act on FSH receptors, interfering in spermatogenesis 57. In animals, the main endocrine alterations are in testosterone, LH 70, and FSH secretion 71." Another snipit i saw
Progesterone in men?
“What is the role of progesterone in men?
In men, progesterone is produced in adrenal, testicular tissue and brain. It is the precursor to cortisol, testosterone, estrogen and other hormones. All hormone levels drop with age and so does the level of progesterone. This in turn causes additional depletion of other hormones. Prolonged stress further depletes progesterone because it increases the demand for cortisol.”
-Increases core body temp.
-Reduces spasm and relaxes smooth muscle of the bronchi
-Aids prevention of osteopororsis
-Acts as a neuroprotectant by aiding synaptic functioning and myelinization
-Reduceses gall bladder activity by relaxing smooth muscle along the biliary tree
-Regulates vital sperm function such as capacitation and mobillity
Golf my friend here is one for you…im still just joining dots i know
"The sebaceous glands are microscopic glands in the skin which secrete an oily/waxy matter, called sebum, to lubricate the skin and hair of mammals.[1] In humans, they are found in greatest abundance on the face and scalp, though they are distributed throughout all skin sites except the palms and soles.[2] In the eyelids, meibomian sebaceous glands secrete a special type of sebum into tears. There are several related medical conditions, including: acne, sebaceous cysts, hyperplasia, sebaceous adenoma and sebaceous gland carcinoma "
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebaceous_gland
“SEBACEOUS GLANDS
The sebaceous glands lie just below the skin adjacent to the hair follicles and connected by a short duct. They secretes sebum into the hair follicles, providing a lubricant for the hair and skin. Sebum is a semifluid substance composed of waxes, fatty acids, cholesterol, and debris from skin cells. By coating the hair and the dead keratin cells of the stratum corneum, sebum sequesters moisture, keeping hair glossy and skin pliable. Sebum is important for many other reasons. It contains a precursor to vitamin D that produces the mature vitamin when struck by the ultraviolet rays of the sun. It also kills certain forms of harmful bacteria”
Dry skin, hair and low vitamin d anyone? Or better yet is anyone having random hair loss or growth on any part of the body?
Now if i didnt know better(which i may not)i would say that something is inhibiting both the 5ar1 and 2 expression in our body. What kind of filthy dirty substance would do that… 
my old favourite ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7738354
HAIR TEST RESULTS
Im not going to write them all just things of note
-Na/K ratio 1.33/1 should be around 2.5/1
-Calcium 73.7 anything above 70 can show hidden copper. Also high calcium hair and low calcium blood is an indication(blood 2.2 (2.2-2.6))
-Zinc copper ratio 8.5 which seems normal
Things flagged
HIGH Tin, Nickel, Uranium, Strontium
LOW Boron, Sodium, Lithium
And the only other thing to be flagged was copper…as false normal. Said with the way some of my results come back a normal reading means nothing. They said get blood, urine and liver biop done. - Go figure
OK so there are signs of hidden copper toxicity. You have high copper in your blood also. Did they give you any recomendation of supplements to take? When they said get blood, urine and liver biop done, what are they looking for by doing this? Is it a toxic metal or are they tyring to guage liver function or liver health?
Looking for how much copper is in the liver. Has anyone on here had a liver biop that you know of?
No comment about supplements, these are just guys who asses it.
So did they come up with the idea that you may be copper excess or did you suggest it to them and now they are trying to find it?
I find it absurd that they would want to do a liver biopsy to diagnose hidden copper toxicity. That is a very dangerous call as the risk of a bleed in liver biopsy is very high in comparison to other surgery.
Ususally they dont just test, they give an interpretation of what it all means and how to treat it. Who did you go through for the test? Was it ARL or someon else?
I would now find someone who is good at interpreting them. Perhaps call them back and ask who to contact or ring ARL and ask them to interpret it perhaps for a fee? You could also try and get in contact with Letsconveiniences naturapath.
This is a big ask, but could you list all of the abnormalities that match up with copper toxicity to the ones listed in Letsconveineinces thread regarding hair miner results?
These ones:
Ø Most slow oxidizers and all very slow oxidizers.
Ø Calcium level greater than about 70 mg%.
Ø Magnesium greater than about 10 mg%.
Ø Potassium level less than about 4 mg%.
Ø Zinc less than about 13 mg%.
Ø Zinc greater than about 20 mg% is often, but not always is a hidden copper indicator.
Ø Mercury level greater than 0.03 mg%. (see below)
Ø Slow oxidation with a copper level less than 1.0 mg%
Ø Copper greater than about 2.5 mg% on any chart indicates excess and usually biounavailability.
Ø Calcium /potassium ratio greater than 10:1.
Ø Sodium/potassium ratio less than about 2:1.
Ø Phosphorus less than about 12 mg%. This is a newer indicator with less research behind it.
Ø Four low electrolytes.
Ø Four high electrolytes.
Ø Sympathetic dominance pattern.
Ø Calcium shell.
Ø Step down pattern.
Ø Step up pattern.
Ø Double low ratio pattern.
Ø Bowl pattern.
Ø Passive-aggressive pattern.
I said nothing about copper.
I really dont understand it well enough to answer all those. I will find someone to explain it to me then post
Well thats a positive sign. If experts also think you have copper toxicity, you may well be on the right track. Some of those above I dont understand either, but most of them are simply are you higher or lower than a certain figure. Please keep us posted as im sure you will and good luck!
"Methylation and The Mind
Numerous studies have shown that about one half to two-thirds of schizophrenics have high levels of copper along with low levels of zinc and manganese especially during acute phases. Carl Pfeiffer, Ph.D., M.D. studied over 20,000 schizophrenic and mentally ill patients over many years and found that high copper patients are also low in histamine.
The copper-containing enzymes, histaminase and ceruloplasmin, regulate histamine. Elevated copper increases the levels of these enzymes, promoting histamine breakdown. The low histamine levels, allow copper to continue to rise. Histamine is an essential protein metabolite (a product of metabolism) found in all body tissues. In the brain, it acts as a neurotransmitter. Low histamine is a marker for high copper.
Histamine and Methyl
Histamine levels are also related to the methylation cycle, a metabolic pathway that is essential for detoxification and for controlling free radical activity. Methyl and histamine compete with each other.
When histamine is high, it is a sign of under-methylation, and when histamine is low, there is over-methylation. With too much methyl, the body will overproduce dopamine, norepinephine and serotonin (the activating neurotransmitters), with too little methyl, the neurotransmitter levels are too low."
I jacked up a histamine test today, its 24hour urine…i dont know if its the best or not. Maybe blood is better…unfortantly all i can get in n.z is urine, and that has to be sent to australia to be processed. 1-6 week turn around 
I just want to rule this out at the least.
Does anyone know if a urine histamine test is any good? Please i need some informed advice on this one