A closer look at Neurotransmitters for possible therapeutic benefits

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#14

So yes I’m still at it

I found a way for it to only cost $99.00 USD for the urine Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol test. So that’s like absolute best case scenario price wise for getting this test done through ZRT lab. Anyone of the providers on ZRT’s website is going to charge some type of mark up on the urine hormone test so getting that for $99.00 is great. But the catch 22 is that ZRT does not let any of their resellers sell the hormone test solo. You need to get it with ZRT’s urine neurotransmitter test. So it still ends up being $370. But no doctors order and no functional health doctors appointment required. So it’s still substantially less then going through a doctor to get the tests ordered for you. And obviously as I’m sure you already know from reading my posts you can’t buy the urine neurotransmitter and the urine hormone test add on through ZRT directly off of their website. You have to go through one of their resellers most of which our functional health doctors who don’t just want to sell you a test kit. They want to “treat you” with out it going through insurance. So my option is the cheapest option for obtaining ZRT’s urine hormone test.

Then there is ZRT’s Saliva pregnenolone test

This test is even more difficult to obtain. Like ZRT’s urine hormone test you have to go through a ZRT reseller by using the find a provider link on ZRT’s website. But I found another ZRT lab reseller company that will sell ZRT’s Saliva pregnenolone sulfate test without a doctors appointment. But it’s not cheep. It’s $389. This is the company:

https://letourneaus.net

aliciap@letourneaus.net

So here are the options with the way things stand:

Go through Ronnie’s company and get their urine hormone metabolite test which will include the urine Allopregnanolone and
3a-diol. We need to wait until Ronnie tells us how much this costs to know if this is the better option

Or use my option and get ZRT’s urine Allopregnanolone and urine
3a-diol test which is only $99 but requires the $271 urine neurotransmitter test totaling $370.
Again we need ronnies price he paid before we know if this is the better option.

Then for the pregnenolone sulfate test ZRT is the only lab that currently offers this test. So we have to go through them for it. And we as patients can’t buy it directly from ZRT. We have to go through a provider contracted with ZRT and the https://letourneaus.net](https://letourneaus.net/) provider is the only provider I can find that will sell it to us with out a BS expansive doctors appointment. I paid $500 for my initial appointment with the ZRT provider who ordered me this test which I paid $600 for. So what I have come up with although not as cheep as I wanted it’s still much cheeper then what I had to pay. By the time I had ZRT’s saliva test and ZRT’s urine hormone test done I had paid upwards to about $2800. So I don’t know i hope someone makes the investment and does this so we can see if I’m into anything that could further our understanding of WTF happened to us

Between my recent experience playing around with neurotransmitters by taking amino acids, thisisarealbummers recent recovery thread and silentpains sexual sides getting worse after taking an NMDA receptor antagonist this seems like the most promising path. I hope we can replicate abnormal pregnenolone sulfate In someone else especially in Ronnie seeing that like me we already know he has high urine 3a-diol

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#15

Ronnie got his urine hormone metabolite test from this Nutripath company in Australia . Nutria path is a ZRT lab reseller and they use ZRT lab to do the test. So Ronnie’s urine hormone metabolite test is the same one I had. Both are ZRT lab.

https://www.nutripath.com.au

@Ronnie99 how much did the ZRT lab urine hormone metabolite test cost you through Nutripath? Did you need to get a doctors order ? Or were you able to simply order the test off of Nutripath’s website with out seeing a doctor? Are you from Australia? How much did the test cost you? Sorry for all the questions. I’m trying to figure out if the Nutripath company is the best option …

#16

Hi @5-alpha-victim

I noticed you haven’t completed the patient survey. When you have 30 minutes, could you please do so via the link at the top of the forum? It would be deeply appreciated and helpful for our research efforts.

Thank you!

3 Likes
#17

I plan on getting it done soon

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#18

Ok. so anyone who is willing to test my theory by checking their urine allopregnanolone and
3a-diol can order the ZRT’s urine hormone test that tests for both of these. Click on test specialities, optional urine hormone ADD-ons and it’s the urine hormone ADD-on that tests for E2, Pregnanediol, Allopregnanolone, Androstenedione, Testosterone, Epitestosterone, DHT, DHEA & 5a, 3a-Androstanediol for $99.00 USD. Note that 5a, 3a-Androstanediol is what I mean when I say “3a-diol”.

https://totalfunctionalhealthdiagnostics.com/

As I previously mentioned any ZRT provider/reseller can only order this test for you though ZRT lab if you also purchase the urine neurotransmitter test. This is ZRT labs policy. ZRT lab will not run a dried urine sample for just the hormone metabolites because of their costs associated with running the sample. So the total cost is $371 plus shipping for both the urine hormone metabolites test and the urine neurotransmitter test. ZRT lab will use the same dried urine samples (4 through out the course of the day) to test both your urine hormone metabolites and your urine neurotransmitter levels.

Coordinating all of this was more or less a full time job but at least I successfully brought it to life. The opportunity to have ZRT’s urine hormone metabolite test without a doctors order, without completely breaking the bank and by simply placing an order on line. If anyone wishes to do this please keep this thread updated so that we can talk through supplying the urine sample per the kits instructions. It comes with detailed instructions but the instructions need to be followed to the T before, during and after supplying the dried urine sample so that we can trust the results.

@betweenjobs @Sugarhouse @UKContributor @Pff @Ronnie99 @Dontgiveup

It is my theory that if we could establish that peeing out high amounts of these things is common among PFS patients it could possibly change the way PFS is looked at and researched. Maybe it’s not the case that we just lack production of these things. Maybe we get rid of higher amounts of these things in our urine compared to non PFS patients for a reason. So for now I am not focusing on how to correct this if it’s true. I am focusing on finding out if it is true. We know it’s true in my own case and in Ronnie99’s case. Myself and Ronnie both pee out flagged high amounts of testosterone and epitestosterone. Generally speaking if testosterone is high in the urine or in the blood epitestosterone is also high. We know that Ronnie pee’s out flagged high 3a-diol. We know that I pee out top of the range 3a-diol and allopregnenolone. Ronnie’s urine allopregnenolone is normal but everything else I am focusing in on is matching up with my own and Ronnie’s.

@Ronnie99 seeing that we know your urine hormone metabolite levels already to fully test my theory we would need to know your pregnenolone sulfate level. The pregnenolone sulfate test is only available through ZRT lab in the form of a salvia test. Generally speaking saliva hormones levels are believed to show the amount of a free hormone not bound. So in this case I would rather have a blood pregenolone sulfate reading but no such test is available that I can find. I had ZRT’s salvia pregenenolone sulfate test done and I am flagged low in it. If you are also flagged low in pregnenolone sulfate this would be very interesting and may be proof of a GABA/NMDA receptor imbalance.

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#19

So its $99 for each test or total for the tests you listed?

Im interested in doing this

PFS caused by Neurosteroid pathway interruption?
#20

It’s $99.00 for ZRT labs urine hormone metabolite test that tests for the following urine hormone metabolites that Ronnie99 and I were tested for:

E2

Pregnanediol

Allopregnanolone

Androstenedione

Testosterone

Epitestosterone

DHT

DHEA

5a,3a-Androstanediol

It’s $99 USD. The bad news is that you are required to purchase a $271 urine neurotransmitter test with it per ZRT labs policy. ZRT lab is the company/lab that actually receives the dried urine sample from you that you supply packaged up per the instructions, tests it and sends you your results. It would be nice to only need to spend $99.00 for what we mainly need to test this theory and to see if Ronnie and my own results can be replicated in someone else. But ZRT lab won’t allow it and they require this urine metabolite test to be purchased as an “add-on” to their urine neurotransmitter test. So it’s $99.00 for ZRT’s urine hormone metabolite test and $271 for ZRT’s urine neurotransmitter test totaling $370. It’s a pay pal transaction so you are protected from fraud.

https://totalfunctionalhealthdiagnostics.com

Ronnie99 did purchase ZRT’s urine metabolite test through another company called “Nutri Path” which is a company that based on their website appears to be from Australia. So maybe wait to see if Ronnie99 responds telling us how much he paid to get the ZRT lab urine metabolite test through Nutria Path and If you need a doctors order to purchase it through Nutria Path. Or just simply order it with the neurotransmitter test for $370 plus shipping. If you are in the US it’s like 8 dollars for shipping and the box will include a pre paid shipping label to send your completed kit to ZRT lab

#21

Hey @5-alpha-victim

Thank you so much for getting the survey done, it’s very helpful for our research efforts.

I also just want to note I can’t participate in any self-experimentation as I recently had a major downturn I’ve just bounced back from.

I also note the total cost for this is $370. I’ll never tell fellow patients what to do - ultimately it is your money - but I would encourage you all to please read this thread first. It’s hard for any patient to fix something that we have little understanding of.

Best,
Mitch

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#22

Yes I understand the financial aspect ty. Im pretty desperate at this point and am willing to try everything. Getting levels tested seems to be harmless enough besides the financial hit and can provide some valuable information.

So why get these tests and not a spinal tap especially if you spent so much on your own personal tests. Im sure even without insurance a spinal tap would be around the same price? Would that be the best possible test? Im pretty ignorant so bare with me

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#23

Yes I like where your going with this, hopefully a few more guys jump in and we can establish a pattern, once the pattern is there stage 2 would be how do correct it.

I will do the test as im interested as I do not think our levels were coincidence, it would be like a say 1/1000 chance, nevertheless I will order the test in the next day or two and as soon as I get the results will post them up. I live in Sydney Australia, is that still ok regarding shipping logistics etc ?

Thanks for your time in this alpha I can see it was alot of digging. Hopefully at least few of the guys follow through and we can either dismiss the theory or can really establish something here.thanks again.

Just a side note have you tested cortisol daily and Cortisol Awakening Response ?

Speak soon.

Ronnie

1 Like
#24

@Ronnie99

Thank you for responding

To clarify we have already had the same urine hormone metabolite test tested by ZRT lab. ZRT lab is in the United States. The company
“Nutri Path” apparently located in Australia is the company that is listed on your test results that you posted above. But this company “Nutri Path” sent your dried urine sample to ZRT lab in the United States and ZRT lab tested your sample and provided the results. The only difference between your ZRT lab urine hormone metabolite test and my ZRT lab urine hormone metabolite test is that yours tested even more urine hormone metabolites compared to mine. ZRT lab has the urine hormone metabolite test that I had done and the one that you had done. I’m suggesting to anyone who is willing to see if they can replicate our urine hormone metabolite test results to go with the ZRT lab urine hormone metabolite test that I had done because I’m assuming it’s cheaper then the one you had done. Cost is the biggest obstacle with this…

How much did you pay through “Nutri Path“ to purchase the ZRT lab urine hormone metabolite test that you posted above ? and did you need a doctors order ? If you provide answers to these specific questions we will have the information required to know if ordering from the total functional health diagnostics website is the best option.

The further clarify the other test I was asking if you would be willing to get is the ZRT lab test that tests for pregnenolone sulfate… this would be a Saliva test and I can resend you the link for it if you are interested. We already have your urine hormone metabolite test results required to test my theory. If we had your saliva pregnenolone sulfate levels we could further test my theory . In other words I want to know if your saliva pregnenolone sulfate levels match mine. I’m flagged low in it.

I’ll answer your question about the cortisol awakening test in a follow up response in other to help address these specific points in this reply.

#25

@dragonslayer123

Yea I went into this knowing that the cost is the biggest obstacle involved in getting it done. That’s why I went about it the way I did. To find the cheapest way to get this done. It’s true that getting the test has zero risks because we are not putting anything in our bodies.

In response to the spinal tap question:

First off, what’s in the urine is what our bodies want to get rid of because it’s waste. My logic is as follows:

Are our bodies getting rid of/wasting higher levels of these hormone metabolites. That’s what I want to know. The answer to this specific question.

Also, we don’t have access to spinal fluid testing. It’s a significant challenge to get others to supply a urine sample haha …imagine getting someone else to figure out how to supply spinal fluid. User thisisarealbummer is the only user I’m familiar with who went to the doctors and got “an order” to get a spinal tap out side of being a participant in a scientific study. Thisisarealbummer never responded telling us how he managed this… so we don’t know if he’s even telling the truth

Lastly, we have Melchangi’s study that tested CNS levels of the same metabolites that I’m looking into in our bodies urine/waste product.

So yea maybe we can say that what I paid to accomplish the difficult task of having my urine hormone metabolites tested is the same as possibly getting a spinal tap outside of insurance. But I would still need a doctor to order it and I’m good but not that good. We would need Thisisarealbummer to explain to us what doctor he went to that ordered his spinal tap. But I found a much cheeper way for others to get the same urine hormone metabolites test that I got. In fact I found a way for someone else to do it for $370 plus shipping.

The trick is to not need to go through a doctor to get it. That’s what substantially reduces the cost. Not needing to go through a doctor. No one here is going to do that.

Maybe Ronnie99 paid less. Hopefully he tells us

#26
  • The test I done cost about $400 AUD.
  • I didnt need to see a doctor and I was a self referred patient.

I will do the test regarding the pregnenalone sulphate. I can email you the test directory they have which shows all the list of tests Nutripath provides

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#27

Yes I plan on doing these tests sometime this week. As well as trying to convince my doctor to go through with a spinal tap which I doubt they will even give me a referral to a neurologist at this point.
PFS has to be either an endocrine problem or a neurosteroid problem.
Derek moreplatesmoredates would thrive in this environment I feel like. Last I heard from him he has acknowledged PFS and thinks that us suffering have been left with gaps in our neurosteroids. At first he thought TRT was the solution but I think he has changed his mind over the years.

2 Likes
#28

Ok nice,

So $400 Australian dollars is equal to $305.68 in United States Dollar. So you had ZRT labs hormone metabolite test done for $305.68 USD purchased through “Nutri Path” compared to the $370 that I came up with. My way you do get the urine neurotransmitter data for that extra $65 United States dollar which is worth keeping in mind. But your way you beat my price by $65 United States dollars.

I’m going to need to send “Nutri Path” an email and ask if guys from the US can purchase ZRT labs urine hormone metabolite test from them and have it mailed to them in the US. If the answer is yes then people could save $65.00… Did you order your ZRT urine hormone metabolite test directly off “Nuri Path’s website ? Here is the website again that you ordered yours through.

https://www.nutripath.com.au

In order to help keep us organized here is the link again for ZRT labs test that tests for pregnenolone sulfate

Here is the company again that told me that you guys could order it from. They said that you can text or email them and ask to buy the test through them

https://letourneaus.net

978-475-7779

aliciap@letourneaus.net

1 Like
#29

Nice that’s awesome

So it’s $370 USD for ZRT labs urine hormone metabolite test. That’s the urine hormone metabolite needed to test the theory and to see if Ronnie and my own results can be replicated by a 3rd person.

https://totalfunctionalhealthdiagnostics.com

For $305.68 USD Ronnie99 got his through this website:

https://www.nutripath.com.au

I don’t know if you can get it through this website or not though because It’s an Australian company.

Then there is ZRT labs saliva hormone test that includes pregnenolone sulfate which is even harder to get and is the most expensive.

Here is the company that told me that you guys could order it from. They said that you can text, call or email them and ask to get the test through them.

https://letourneaus.net

978-475-7779

aliciap@letourneaus.net

In a perfect world you guys have low pregnenolone sulfate in the saliva and high 3a-diol on the urine. Then we would have three of us with this pattern. Which absolutely would implicate neurotransmitter imbalance.

If you could get CNS fluid tested that would be impressive. It would be interesting to see if thisisarealbummers GABA levels/receptor findings could be replicated. You would need to really dig into thisisarealbummers thread to see what he had his CNS levels tested for so you could ask your doctor. Highly doubt your doctor would agree though to do it

Who is moreplatesmoredates?

#30

Hes a problematic youtuber when it comes to PFS but has since made somewhat of a turn of understanding PFS. Hes similar to Kevin Mann but way better in comparison. Hes someone I listened to prior to taking finasteride.

Also I dont want to sound combative, Im ignorant trying to learn, but why would Ronnie be considered in these test results? He took a different drug than @5-alpha-victim and I did. Is accutane a 5aR inhibitor or something? I took accutane back when I was a teenager and it left me with seborrheic dermatitis on my face which I still have to this day. But what finasteride did to me was life altering. So again im ignorant but you and I took finasteride and dutsteride which are very similar. Why would accutane be considered in this? This is something I have been confused about since joing this site. Theres finasteride, antidepressants, and accutane. Which I personally have taken all 3 separately. But finasteride is the one that really messed me up. Are those 3 drugs related in some way? Im just confused on relating to someone that didnt take the same drug as me. Again sorry Ronnie Im just asking questions.

Im going to order the $370 test this week. Have an appointment with my PCP tomorrow going to ask for a referral to a neurologist and try to make progress towards a spinal tap is my ultimate goal

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#31

Well if we get the neurotransmitter levels for the $65 then I would rather pay the little extra and see if we find a pattern in there aswell and go through your way ? As i beleive also we have a or least I have a dopamjine D2 deficency or dysregulation.

Whats your thoughts ?

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#32

Lab exams seem like spending money on a casino. The casino always wins. Keep an eye out for financial scams.

#33

I think we are on the same page. But just to further confirm that we are on the same page you and I had the same urine hormone metabolite test done already through ZRT lab . Because ZRT lab does not sell these tests directly to patients we both went through different providers that sell them on behalf of ZRT lab. So for you If you have the same urine hormone steroid metabolite test done that you already had you would be probably wasting your money so you probable should not pay to retest your urine hormone metabolites. For you if you can afford it and if you want to try to find additional patterns with my results it’s the ZRT lab saliva hormone test that includes pregnenolone sulfate among other things that would probable be the better buy for you seeing that you already previously paid for ZRT’s urine hormone metabolite test

In my own opinion based on my own experience I think neurotransmitters are imbalanced in some way. Like you I’m trying to figure it out. I do know that when I increase the amount of serotonin I’m peeing out in my urine I see substantial improvements in my Saw P induced constipation. I have now discontinued and reintroduced the specific amino acids that in theory should increase serotonin production three times. Each time adding them back in my constipation is practically reversed to pre PFS level. I’m assuming if I see an increase in the amount of serotonin in my urine by comparing before and after urine neurotransmitter tests that this means I’m producing more in response to taking the amino acids that convert to serotonin in the body

I read that serotonin and dopamine need to be balanced and that when taking amino acids to increase one you should also be taking amino acids to take the other. I read that serotonin stimulates intestinal contractions and dopamine does the opposite. The last thing I can add is that when I crashed on all the amino acids recently I was taking amino acids for both serotonin and dopamine production. So I don’t know I’m trying to figure it out.