Why are probiotics benefiting me?

By nature, I’m a sceptical kind of guy. I am usually very hesitant to try anything which I feel has no scientific basis. Despite this, I have tried a variety of substances over my 3+ years with PFS. None have provided me with any benefit with the exception of my most recent experiment - taking a probiotic intended to be used by women for ‘flora balance’. It contains Lactobacillus rhamnosus and Lactobacillus reuteri in equal proportions.

The benefits it provides are absolutely material, and certainly not a placebo effect. My brain fog completely subsides, my emotions return, as does a zest for life. Libido soars, and my erections are rock solid - perhaps even better than those which I routinely achieved pre-PFS.

I have been hesitant to write this post, lest the effects wear off and it turns out to not be of much use long-term. This has proven to not be the case.

When I take a half-capsule of the powder (I dispose of half of it to bring down the count to 650 million of each kind of bacteria), within three hours I notice a benefit. The benefit persists for two days.

If I take them daily for a week, it causes my digestion to get unsettled, and four days to return to normal upon cessation.

I don’t understand the mechanism behind this. I have heard that l. reuteri may boost T levels.
I was hoping those with a strong biological background regarding our condition, such as @awor or @axolotl, could provide some insight as to why I am experiencing such profound benefit from something which seems so innocuous and pedestrian.

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Can you please share which brand / formula probiotics are you taking?

This product:

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Thanks, mate!

In my case, it’s not as dramatic as you are, but it’s definitely better than when I didn’t eat.

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Id say there are plenty of possibilities when looking at probiotics, but again the market and knowledge is still very limited atm as to how to go about things. Whats helpful to some could be harmful to others. Ive looked at and trialed most of the majority of whats available on a individual basis including these strains.
There’s still alot of interest here looking at some major neurological diseases,

Microbiome-altering Alzheimer’s drug unexpectedly approved in China

November 05, 2019

In a surprise to many researchers around the world, Chinese authorities recently approved a novel
drug claimed to improve cognitive function in patients with Alzheimer’s disease. The drug, derived from a marine algae, is the first new Alzheimer’s drug to reach the market anywhere in the world in almost 20 years, and is suggested to reduce neuroinflammation by modulating a person’s gut microbiome.

“I have been doing research on Alzheimer’s disease for 50 years, participated in multiple global multi-center studies of multiple drugs, and have never found a satisfactory treatment for Alzheimer’s disease,” says Zhang Zhenxin, MD, a principal investigator on the latest trial. “The result of the 9-month trial of Oligomannate is exciting. We finally see hope and dawn. I am sincerely happy for the patients and their families.”

Parkinson’s symptoms ‘could be improved’ by gut bacteria found in some over-the-counter supplements

## Researchers said the study’s results 'show a link between bacteria in the gut and the protein at the heart of Parkinson’s’
The probiotic, bacillus subtilis, not only prevented the build-up of a protein associated with the disease that results in tremors but even reversed it, scientists said.
The bacteria is already available in over-the-counter products but scientists behind the research said more work was needed to establish the quantity and frequency required to make a difference.

Gut germs play role in multiple sclerosis, studies show. Are probiotics for MS next?
scientists have found the strongest evidence yet that intestinal bacteria play a role in multiple sclerosis, an incurable disease in which the body’s immune system attacks the myelin coating on neurons, causing tremors, fatigue, cognitive problems, and more.

Although it might seem crazy that gut bacteria could affect neurons, evidence for that has been steadily accumulating, so much so that an international consortium is devoted to understanding which microbes protect against or promote MS.

Id also say just because you cant fix this at this point, doesnt mean its not a possibility.

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@orthog, have you had severe sexual dysfunction after PFS? Like a lifeless dick hanging.

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Dr. Martina McBride I believe is her name. She claims that all diseases can be healed by treating the gut, and when our body has excessive bad bacteria’s that leads to a whole lot of health problems. I think that theory has been tried by many here who have seen improvements treating their gut.

She also said that Alzheimer was caused by an excessive amount of bad bacteria that enters the brain and you need to cleanse your body of the bad bacteria, by letting it starve that means no sugars and no carbs for a prolonged period of time and re-introduce good bacteria back into your body.

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Yes.

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How long is your “recovery” lasting?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3879365/

Abstract

The decline of circulating testosterone levels in aging men is associated with adverse health effects. During studies of probiotic bacteria and obesity, we discovered that male mice routinely consuming purified lactic acid bacteria originally isolated from human milk had larger testicles and increased serum testosterone levels compared to their age-matched controls. Further investigation using microscopy-assisted histomorphometry of testicular tissue showed that mice consuming Lactobacillus reuteri in their drinking water had significantly increased seminiferous tubule cross-sectional profiles and increased spermatogenesis and Leydig cell numbers per testis when compared with matched diet counterparts This showed that criteria of gonadal aging were reduced after routinely consuming a purified microbe such as L. reuteri . We tested whether these features typical of sustained reproductive fitness may be due to anti-inflammatory properties of L. reuteri , and found that testicular mass and other indicators typical of old age were similarly restored to youthful levels using systemic administration of antibodies blocking pro-inflammatory cytokine interleukin-17A. This indicated that uncontrolled host inflammatory responses contributed to the testicular atrophy phenotype in aged mice. Reduced circulating testosterone levels have been implicated in many adverse effects; dietary L. reuteri or other probiotic supplementation may provide a viable natural approach to prevention of male hypogonadism, absent the controversy and side-effects of traditional therapies, and yield practical options for management of disorders typically associated with normal aging. These novel findings suggest a potential high impact for microbe therapy in public health by imparting hormonal and gonad features of reproductive fitness typical of much younger healthy individuals.

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I just ordered Nature’s Way Reuteri. Will report when results are in.

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Hope the benefits last every time you take them @orthogs

Good luck. This is interesting

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There is something about those two strains. I get much greater benefits from those two than eating yogurt.

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Hey @orthogs,

I’m very glad to hear that’s providing such a profound benefit to your symptoms. How long has this been going on?

I can’t provide anything concrete I’m afraid. If we assume for the purposes of brief discussion that, speaking high-level, an epigenetic alteration has occurred in response to use of finasteride coherent with site-specific epigenetic differences in patients vs controls (Di Loreto et al., 2014; Basaria et al., 2016; Melcangi et al., 2019), certain alterations in the serum milieu could be creating a more functionally ‘optimal’ level for cells adapted to the DHT-deprived environment for a time, before washout.

It’s very difficult to infer precisely why, but there’s a few things that are potentially of interest. Obviously, influence upon remote tissues are due to the formation of bioactive metabolites. Different strains of L Reuteri are associated with several outcomes that could that could feasibly modulate the condition, including testosterone, TNF-alpha suppression and even ethanol production as a direct metabolite. I think @Sibelio has linked a study above I have seen before regarding a seemingly significant increase in serum testosterone. Given your stated symptomatic situation, it’s plausible this pro-testosterone effect may be of benefit. Have you tried a low dose of testosterone before? Likewise, knowing how you felt in comparison to taking TNF-a inteference drugs such as Adalimumab or Certolizumab pegol would be of interest, but to be clear, I have no idea of safety, and this would be an enormous risk with this condition. Side effects can be quite serious outside of it, so I’m only talking hypothetically what might potentially give a clue, mechanistically.

The fact that you state this is wearing off is interesting, and that it’s quite quick to notice the effect. Are there other ingredients in these capsules listed beyond what they deem the active ingredient? Such supplements have poor regulatory oversight, but it’s worth ruling out as far as you are able by trusting the label.

Whatever the case, I hope it keeps working for you. Personally, I took L reuteri (different brand and potentially different strands, though quite a few more strands) for the duration of a bottle a few years ago and never felt a slight difference. Functional problems are far the least of my worries as I have had substantial physical damage and am in constant severe penile/perineal/prostate pain since my crash, but these were not affected. I did not feel any difference whatsoever in terms of my severe cognitive symptoms, or any other symptoms either.

Best and good luck,

axo

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How about a week on antibiotics and fecal transplant afterwards to reset gut biome?

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@axolotl, thanks for the considered reply.

I started it on Christmas Eve. There have been periods where I haven’t taken it (if I take it for too many consecutive days it gives me endless flatulence and burping). I’m now on a once every two days schedule, taken with breakfast.

No, I haven’t. I have considered it in the past, but due to so many stories of failure I have hesitated to go down this route.
Of course you or nobody else can say with certainty, but do you think it’s reasonable to assume that the T-boosting effect could warrant me trying to take low does Testosterone, given that I may be responding to this attribute in particular? Do you think it’s a relatively risk-free undertaking?

As you stress, I would be unwilling to try any of those fangled TNF-a influencing drugs due to the high risk associated with taking them.

There doesn’t seem to be any other ingredients listed. Yes, the rapidity of onset of relief is surprising to me and hard to explain given one would assume that it would take a considerable time for the bacteria to reach the gut and begin exerting their effect.

Blackmores in a highly respected brand in Australia, and in the Asia-Pacific region at large. In fact its not uncommon to be unable to specifically find their products at pharmacies, as many Chinese residents as well as visitors clean them off the shelf and post them to China to sell at a marked up price.

I’m certainly sorry to hear that you tried this without any positive effect. It really does seem there is significant variance in severity amongst PFS sufferers, with you seemingly at the severe end of things.

I hope we can soon identify some kind of unifying mechanism which can explain what brings this on and how we can hopefully provide effective relief for as many members as possible. The variance in efficacy of different ‘off-the-shelf’ treatment modalities does concern me, but I hold out hope that we’ll get there in the end.

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Looking at this topic from top to bottom, I think everytime l. reuteri is mentioned its of a different kind or different strain. Starting from what Orthogs is taking to whats in the study, to what Sibelio just bought, they are all different.
If trying to repeat any reported positive results, it might be best looking at identical strains if possible, or at least what makes them similar.
The 6475 strain thats in the study produces histamine and reuterin (a antibiotic type metabolite)
I believe what Orthogs is taking does not, although It might produce hydrogen peroxide.
Ones isolated from breast milk, one is a vaginal commensal.
Also if you start combining too many different strains, they can have opposing effects.
My thought here would be to basically plug something in that might be missing, whether thats the type of bacteria itself or what might make it unique.
A bacterial type deficiency that causes chronic dysbiosis and inflammation maybe. Also having a similar thought with the wrong type of bacteria that could become dominant.

I looked at histamine producing 6475 alot and idk,
I took 10 billion a day for months on end.
I started to experience a type of cold similar to skin being exposed to cold air without the warming phase coming back. I could make excuses for this but it concerned me enough to stop. With this coldness also came numbness. So idk, I could talk more on this, but im done for now.

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So just a theory. But don’t most women’s probiotics focus on balancing yeast? Could this be why the OP had such profound benefits?

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@BP86

There was some guy here before with a pretty strong dose of Diflucan. I remember he treated it aggressively as a gut issue and was able to fix his issues, it’s a shame he doesn’t post anymore.