Ways to Rebuild and Reconnect

General Discussion
#21

For those of you struggling to emotionally connect with the world, there’s some encouraging news. In his book Mindsight: The New Science of Personal Transformation, author and Harvard-trained physician Dr. Dan Siegel focuses on interpersonal neurobiology. For example, he points out how “damaged” brains retrain themselves after trauma. After being shot point blank, Gabrielle Giffords recovered her verbal capacity by singing. Music helped build a bridge; at first, she couldn’t speak, but she could connect lyrically to music. Turns out songs trigger a different part of our brains than speech.

Like many here, I see the world in ways I didn’t before. While I don’t feel as emotionally engaged as I once did, I almost feel like I can see through people now. I pick up on their thought processes, insecurities, egos, etc. in a powerful way. I suppose it’s a consequence of stripping sexual attraction away. Erotic desire is so powerful, it often blinds you. The exotic foreign exchange student you can’t stop thinking about turns out to be a neurotic, controlling manipulator. Once the veil of sexuality is lifted, you see other human beings in the raw.

I suspect as many of us heal, our brains forge new connections to compensate for ways fin changed them. While most of us would prefer our old perceptions, I’m intrigued by the new ways in which I perceive the world. These new insights may not keep me warm at night, but I see myself looking at world with fresh eyes.

#22

Please tell us more of your background

#23

Beautifully written and i know exactly where you are coming from. It’s just hard to appreciate all of this when your faced with the horrible sexual side effects.

You should post more TX optimist i love reading your posts, you sound like a very wise man.

#24

Txoptimist, please post your member story

#25

TXOptimist,
The thread is great, and your view is awesome. But i have to disagree with the quote above. The way you re able to see through people now is a consequence of being more mature, of having to grow fast due to a traumatic episode. Many men are able to see these characteristics, yet they are perfectly healthy as far as feeling desire (which we are not anymore). If it weren’t that way, men would be eternal teenagers, having sex with anyone, never getting married or stablishing long term relationships. And many men are able of making wise decisions on who to date, besides having a strong sexual desire. To control desire, it is not necessary to destroy it. And that is not wise eihter. Many times, it is quite the opposite. You control desire by living it in moderation, even if it is with masturbation. The complete withdrawal is unhealthy.
That controlling, neurotic exchange student could have been great sex… No commitment. Sometimes, not being in control is good for us, we all need that. It is relaxing and gives you more energy. Part of the beauty of sex is allowing yourself not to be in control all the time.
“Once the veil of sexuality is lifted, you see other human beings in the raw.”
Even if you need to abstein from sex to achieve that, which i disagree, simply masturbating when having a urge would solve your problem, and your sex-free mind would emerge again.

#26

This thread is dribble. Finasteride made me retarded. Period.

#27

oh please…! yes i see that we need to be positive and everything…but this SUCKS. and not in a good way…
i have no shame to say i hate this…and i see NO positive side of being in a position like ours. i would rather lose a finger than have to go thru this…and im already 80 % recovered…but it sucks still.

#28

I am 0% recovered and cant really face people due to my brain fog, just getting by is a struggle.

#29

TXOptimist that was a great thread i just read, it resonated with me completely, i’m early 30’s, took propecia 7 years ago and it’s been one hell of a journey ever since. But like you i’m beginning to find peace in the new me, everything happens for a reason and all that. I agree with every word you wrote and got a shiver down my spine cause it felt like i was reading my thoughts. Your words have inspired me and i’m sure they will inspire others. Don’t let some of the other comments get you down. Everyones at a different stage in their journey, it’s 7 years ago now for me. I just wanted to say thanks for your post, It made me feel good. By the way me and the missus picked up a puppy last week, i really wasn’t looking forward to it as it was really all her idea but i’ve gotta tell you…and anyone else listening…it was the best thing we have done in a long long while, i love the little thing. She’s called *&^%$ and she lights me up! Peace.

#30

@tim1911 & brazilliandude

I’m not suggesting fin made anyone’s life better. By all measures, it may our lives worse. Much of the time it seems I’m in some sort of Nietzschean battle for survival. Ever read Will to Power?
I’m reminded of Christoper Hitchen’s last article in Vanity Fair. Just before he died of cancer, he declared that which did not kill him DID NOT make him stronger. He just physically deteriorated. Yet he still sat down and cranked out beautiful writing as he was dying. Amazing!

All I’m suggesting is fin clarified things. People organize their lives around sex, marriage, family, work, etc. It’s an illusion in some sense, because no one can hang on to whatever life they create. In our case, we’re learning this in our 20’s and 30’s, while most men are in denial until late middle age. This poses an existential crisis: if we we’re going to lose everything in the end, what matters now? What’s worth fighting for?

I was listening to an 80-year old poet on NPR this week. He explained how his poetry was connected to erotic desire. Words and images would naturally bubble up. As he got older, that desire slipped away. Now he only writes prose.

It’s unfortunate I empathize with a man 50 years my senior. What keeps me going is that, for all practical purposes, I can still carry on. I still feel like there’s a story to tell. I’m independent. I’m financially back on my feet. Although I’ve had to take less taxing jobs, my career prospects look promising. My goals really aren’t that different than they were before fin, and they’re still within reach.

I’m not here to lecture anyone how to live their life. Everyone has to decide what matters, what’s still possible. But I hate to see folks check out when they’ve still got a fighting chance.

1 Like
#31

TXoptimist, I think what Tim’s trying to say is that he’s not capable of doing the things you’re suggesting. Brain fog can be debilitating in a social situation in the same way not getting an erection or numbness in your penis can be debilitating when you’re in a sexual situation. It simply doesn’t work. Glad to hear you’ve come away from this so well but this is not possible for everyone with diminished sexual function, bodily function, and cognitive function.

I didn’t see your member story to review. Please post your story in the member stories section and a link to it in this thread.

Finasteride did not clarify things. It may have removed reasons to live, breathe, and enjoy life, but brain fog, impotence, absent libido, future unknown health problems, etc. are not clarifications, they are impediments to living a natural and normal life. Given that many of the symptoms reported on this board mimic those of old age, it’s disingenuous to allude that, I’m paraphrasing your previous post here, “ambition can fuel recovery.” The natural biological processes have been disturbed on different levels from person to person and men experiencing hypogonadal symptoms are generally not overabundant in either category of ambition or libido, in fact it’s the opposite.

Agreed 100%. However it can be very frustrating to see a level of optimism that doesn’t match the difficulty of the obstacle to be overcome. Reading Tim’s frustration with this thread is kind of like reading about vincentv 's frustration in his experience with a doctor who refused to listen to his symptoms:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6162

#32

If you found some way to be happy with the way you are in this condition then consider yourself blessed.

As for me, I feel old and sick all the time. I’m 28 years old and feel like a tired old man all the time. I do get sick much more than before as well. Catching colds and the flu every few months. I wake up feeling aches and pain in my back and legs I didn’t have before.

I dont feel any wiser or stronger because of this, in fact I feel weaker in all areas. My resolve isn’t what it used to be, I have 1/50 the motivation to do things I used to have.

There are guys on here who only got hit with sexual side effects who are in-fact much better off then the people who got hit with the whole slew of side effects and some of you guys don’t seem to realize that. There are guys I was talking to on facebook who just had a little penile numbness and occasional ED. I deleted my facebook account cause I didn’t want to hear anymore about it when myself and others on here are going through way way more then that. I’m not saying I’m the worst off cause I’m not, I dont have muscle wastage and some other sides.

What I am saying is that this condition is a hell of a lot more then just losing your libido and having some ED issues. And for those guys it’s a completely different ball game.

#33

Don’t get me wrong, Propecia has fucked me up good and proper. To be honest i don’t really know how i have got to where i am today although saying that, where i am today is nowhere special…it’s just kinda normal in the grand scheme of things. I have to force myself to do everything in life, everyday i just can’t really be assed to do anything but i get my ass out of bed and get to work, luckily i’m on the road alot and i don’t answer to a boss as such so i get away with being my half arsed self or skiving off here and there.

I fucking hate propecia, some of the more recent problems i’ve been having, say in the last 12 months are severe panic attacks, blood sugar issues… i nearly fainted whilst driving (it turns out these two are down to me burning my adrenal glands out, i realised i had severe adrenal fatigue last year when i had a bit of a nervous breakdown. I used to get by on a lot of coffee, it really helped me, i used it like an anti depressant, it made me feel kinda normal, i would get through a lot of caffeine (3 coffeeshop coffees) everyday cause it kept me ‘up’ and positive…but eventually my adrenal glands just could not take anymore and i’ve ended up with adrenal fatigue. Funnily enough this is another condition not currently recognised by the mainstream medical profession.)

So now i am stimulant free to be honest, which pretty much sucks balls! I miss all the vices i used to have and the endless mental and nervous energy i used in pursuing them. Anyway back to my more recent effects i’ve noticed…

Mental fog, i can be thinking about something, something i need to do, literally 1 second later it’s gone. A few weeks ago i was in a half asleep / awake state and i was trying to think of this person that i was thinking about and i couldn’t work out who this person was i was trying to think about for 5-10 seconds which is a long time inside your mind. That person was my girlfriend who i’ve been with for a few years. How could i possibly forget who this person is…even if only for a few seconds…scary stuff. Few days later i’m looking for a loaf of bread i’ve just bought, i find it half an hour later on top of a cupboard in the kitchen, how the fuck did it get up there!

Flutternig prostate, for the last few months my prostate flutters at various times of the day. i’ve always suffered prostate problems for the last 6-7 yrs since quitting propecia but now on top of that it flutters. Lke literally now whilst i am writing this it keeps fluttering, it’s a bizarre feeling and i can only describe it as fluttering.

Pain in my hip joint, when i do manage to drag my ass out for a run these days i have like a rhumatic pain in my hip. Right in the joint, when i open my hip joint up it clicks like crazy and i suppose this is the beginning of rhumatism/arthritis in my hip joint at 33…WTFuckingFuck.

Another thing i’ve had for years now since quitting is hair growth in all the wrong places, i tell you, if i didn’t shave i would have eyebrows like Brian Blessard, Nose hair and hairy ears like some sort of wolf man. I pulled an eyebrow out today which was over an inch long. wtfoookinfuck.

Life fucking sucks compared to life before propecia but i am one determined fucka. Tomorrow after doing fuck all exercise for a couple of months i will start on a new exercise plan, 20-30minutes per day, nothing too hectic, just toning and increasing fitness for a bit. I’ve just ordered some Vitamin D and Carlsons finest fish oil which i’m going to give a crack. I drink organic raw milk and eat as much organic food as possible, nothing in life can be 100% permanent, even if you only change something 1% in 12 months, it’s still changing for the better.

I refuse to give up. I’m trying to pick myself up and get cracking looking for a new job, something which uses my degree and at least puts me on a more prosperous path, but to be honest i just can’t be fucking arsed, i can’t be fucking arsed to do anything in life. Everydays a struggle… but not a struggle to live and breath just a struggle to do all the things that are expected of a 33year old who hasn’t won the lottery. I just want to fucking chill out and convalesce, get better slowly with diet, rest and exercise, live a life of leisure and personal hobbies and interests… but this fuckhole of a rat race gets in the way. It’s relentless and if i stopped working, i couldn’t afford the rent on our flat, and then what… I genuinely know what it feel like to be a man in his late 60’s and 70’s cause that’s how i feel in my 30’s.

So i will carry on working, and i will get that new job and keep trying to plod along in the right direction, tone up a bit and get in shape, go on holiday in the summer for 2 weeks in the sun, watch my dog grow up, love my girlfriend and look after her, do right by my family, keep trying to win poker tournaments, keep buying lottery tickets, keep on that positive path, keep fucking believing.

The world is finally catching up with what we’ve all known for years about Propecia. We’re not ‘mental’ and none of this is in our heads. This can only be a good thing. Things wil get better for us all, it’s just gonna take time, time is one thing we’ve all got a lot of.

Can’t wait for my next life though…and to feel the thirst again for a woman. Goodnight.

1 Like
#34

I know EXACTLY what you mean. Meeting women for me is a lot easier than in the time before propecia.
Granted, I’ve read alot of book on psychology but I think the drug changes your brain somehow to help this.

for example i have no approach anxiety talking to a beautifull girl sober anywhere. I can flirt etc. Before propecia I had huge approach anxiety and could not dream of talking to a girl daytime for example in a grocery store.

Now I feel like I read people, especially women, so much better.

And guys, dont get me wrong. I have no libido, my penis has shrunken by ~30% and I have ed so eventho I’d have multiple women in my life I do not have the desire to have sex with them… the term used on the forum “asexual zombie” describes me quite accurately. But I find it extremely interesting how the drug has altered the brain.

#35

I swear to god this is a dopamine problem based on just this thread alone.

But I digress.

What has helped me? Help other people who need it. Do something good for a sick kid. Make your time here worth it.

You might be surprised how good it makes you feel.

#36

Interesting is not exactly how I would put it.

#37

I wanted to pass on some big gains I’ve had in the past month. I went to a health/fitness conference and have implemented some of what I learned.

1.) Consider a paleo/primal diet. If you’re unfamiliar, you derive most of your energy/calories from healthy fats (avocados, nuts) and protein (fish, lean meats) with limited non-grain, non-processed carbs (berries, sweet potatoes). I’ve been on this for several months now, and I’ve seen some major changes. My cholesterol dropped to 180 (from a high three years ago of 280). My digestive system is humming along much better. Joints are less creaky. I eat lots of protein and feel much better afterword. After all, your body converts the protein into amino acids, and the aminos into neurotransmitters. So it helps clear up the “brain fog.”

2.) Speaking of neurotransmitters…5-HTP/Tyrosine/DLPA. I’ve added two supplements: 5-HTP (serotonin precursor) and DLPA (tyrosine/dopamine precursor). I felt much calmer and relaxed almost immediately after taking a low dose of 5-HTP. My gut quieted down too (since most of your serotonin receptors are in your intestines). A couple caveats: Do your homework before taking either. They’re not without some risk, especially if you’re on SSRI’s or certain antidepressants. Unlike SSRIs, 5-HTP is not a targeted serotonin booster; it floods your whole body which could affect heart tissue. So I wouldn’t take it for very long–just to get things going. Second, if you’re going to boost your serotonin levels, you need to balance it out with dopamine. The ratio is typically: 1:10 (50 mg 5HTP to 500 mg Tyrosine). Personally, I’ve found DLPA to be more effective than Tyrosine.

Acetyl-l-carnitine is another good one if you need a little lift. Stimulating. Not sure what it boosts, but it’s been a staple for years. I feel much more clear headed within minutes. Start with a low dose (250-500 mg) to see what you can tolerate.

  1. Take cold showers. Don’t laugh! I thought it was bunk too, but I’m starting to become a believer. After I got passed the initial shock, I noticed my mind started to shut off under the cold water. My brain felt like it was cooling off. I fell asleep quickly afterword. What little belly fat I had has started to fall off. You can read more about the benefits–ranging from depression relief, fat loss, and higher testosterone here: http://artofmanliness.com/2010/01/18/the-james-bond-shower-a-shot-of-cold-water-for-health-and-vitality/

I’m not an expert on the mechanics, but from what I gather, the cold water signals your brain and body to go into a different state, sort of like a bear going into hibernation. I started cold water therapy about the same time I started supplementing with 5HTP, so it’s hard to say what’s doing what. At any rate, there appears to be some synergy going on.

My blood pressure has dropped a bit. Also, while my sex drive isn’t revved up, I’ve felt more “pangs.” I’m getting more comments about my appearance and connecting with new people easier. I must be giving off better vibes (and looking healthier too).

#38

Thanks for sharing your insights with us TXOptimist. All of your posts in this thread have been wonderful and thought provoking.

Cheers,

#39

Update: Be really careful if you take 5-HTP. I had big gains taking it on and off for about 3 weeks, then started having heart flutters. I stopped supplementing. I’ll just focus on eating foods high in tryptophan now.

While I’m far from pessimistic, I think I’ve hit another health plateau. It’s settling in–after more than 10 years–this is my life. I’m so much better now than then, but to think how effortless my life was before I took this stuff! Some things will never be the same.

I’m trying to get more info on the lawsuit. Personal recovery is important, but it’s time for action. I sense our moment is coming. PM me if you’ve dealt with any reputable lawyers, especially the ones filing the consolidated New Jersey suits. The internet is full of Propecia spam (a good sign, I guess, when lawyers smell a settlement around the corner!)

#40

Has anyone had their religious faith shaken by this? For example, I was brought up to believe your sexuality was a gift from God. But it’s blatantly apparent sex is just another biological-chemical reaction. Which a pharmaceutical company can turn off like a switch. Along with most of your emotions.

On that note, does anyone else think sex seems like an odd way to unite people? I never thought that before I took Propecia. But now it seems like a crude means to bring two people into a relationship. I mean, you have be horned up and having hot, passionate sex to want to spend your life with someone? I know there are exceptions (as people age, get disabled, take a poorly conceived hair-loss remedy). But in most those cases the couple had a sex life for years before the incident stopped it. So they had a foundation in place.

Not trying to turn this into a believer vs. atheist kinda deal. Just curious to get others’ thoughts.