Warning about *dark* chocolate/cocoa/cacao (or foods containing high amounts of 5ar inhibiting flavonols)!

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#61

Just want to throw out a quick warning.

I took saw palmetto (320mg) for a year (June 2014 to June 2015) + a small amount of stinging nettle and beta sitosterol from the evil Adam’s men’s multivitamin (which accounted for half of my saw intake). They actually changed the formula on the Adam’s multivitamin by significantly cutting the amount of 5ari’s in it. I bet many others who took this multi which had 160mg of the saw extract (now down to 80mg of the weak berry) have sides and have not connected the dots. I believe GNC has a multivitamin pack with 320mg of saw extract. Unreal…

For the next 1.5 years I took all this plus pumpkin seed oil which I think put me over the edge because in 6 months after adding pumpkin I started to notice sides, mostly depression, insomnia, and brain fog.

Sexual sides started to appear in 2016 starting with nuked libido then no morning wood. It took me until early 2018 to connect the dots because I was doing NoFap as well and thought for a year that I was just in the flatline which has almost identical symptoms. I believe some of my suffering is psychogenic (in a negative neurotic loop) because I had a gf in 2017 and while I had sides, it wasn’t until after we broke up and I found out about this condition that the severe suffering started.

Don’t take:

-Pumpkin seed oil
-Beta sitosterol
-Stinging nettle

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#62

Does this apply to milk chocolate too or is it only darker chocolate we must avoid? Can anyone share their experiences with milk chocolate?

#63

I think it’s unlikely that people would develop insomnia from eating nuts. People with raised sensitivity as a result of using a powerful 5ar inhibitor could find their symptoms worsen by eating foods that inhibit 5ar. I am not aware of that’s what nuts do, I just know some people have problems with them.

#64

No problem with chocolate here as far as I know.

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#65

For the most part, chocolate is fine in moderation. But others have also said that chocolate have hurt them, likely from darker varieties, ymmv. So be careful with eating darker and higher quality chocolate in large amounts or pure cocoa powder or cocoa beans. Milk chocolate as commonly found in stores is fine as it has been even further diluted with milk or cream so it hasn’t much polyphenols at all.

What I took was pure cocoa solids (cocoa beans) from a brand near the top of the list of cocoa products by polyphenol content and a lot of it. The higher quality and darker the chocolate, the more polyphenols it has. It’s all about the source of the cocoa and how accurate the labelling of % of cocoa solids on the packaging is. The only way to determine polyphenol content of a chocolate product is through a third party lab test.

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#66

I was looking through some of my old posts here and I remember actually eating pretty large amounts of cacao nibs and dark chocolate bars and it coincided with some regrowth in my genitals.

I don’t know if it was because of the food because I had another period of regrowth and I don’t remember eating cacao at that time. I’ve been kinda tempted to eat more cacao nibs to see if I can keep regrowing. I think my body can handle eating large amounts because I had no problems last time, but I think experimenting again would be foolish.

#67

Mercked, do you live a balanced life?

#68

I’ve noticed that dark chocolate sets me back as well. Don’t listen to these turds try to tell you its in your head or common foods can’t cause you to feel worse. Check out this list of some foods to avoid…dark chocolate, nuts (especially pistaccios and almonds), canola, corn, and avocados especially…

Reishi Mushrooms majorly set me back too, they don’t have beta-sitosterol, but they are heavy 5ari’s.

I use cortef, rhodiola during the day, and sometime ashwaghadia at night to combat these “setbacks” when they happen.

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#69

Thank you. I havent updated in a while and I’ll confirm what you said about nuts.

38 days later:

I had a few nights that were glimpses of improvement. I had one night where I slept for almost 6 hours straight. Then throughout the next two days I ate like a whole bag of macadamia nuts which seemed to set me back almost to day 1 when this insomnia started. Could only sleep for around 3 hours at a time last night again.

Shit is fucking crazy. I thought macadamia nuts were safe as far as nuts are concerned as they’re lower in polyphenols and polyunsaturated fats.

#70

I know I posted somewhere that other nuts raise estrogen but I think I remember reading that macademia nuts block DHT. I was gonna order macademia nut butter and it eat regularly instead of peanut butter but I remember coming across that macademia nuts inhibit DHT a little bit and opted not to eat it.

I think you should stop experimenting and stop consuming large quantities of any type of food.

Did you eat macademia nuts because of my post? I’m sorry.

#71

I believe peanuts are a problem food for some here too. Of course if you’re not noticing anything, if might be that you don’t have whatever sensitivity that peanuts would interact with.

#72

Turns out macadamia nuts are high in oleic acid and it’s a super fatty nut. It also has moderate amounts of beta sitosterol: https://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-012077000000000000000.html?maxCount=22

I guess the takeaway here is that nuts (and seeds) are like the eggs of plants. They’re packed full of everything a plant needs to grow including plant oils and plant sterols, both of which inhibit 5ar.

I’m not sure if it was you. It might’ve been a combination of a post here and something I read on the first page of a some bro sci blog after searching for macadamia nuts + DHT. I wasn’t experimenting. I love nuts and I was actually trying to find a ‘safe’ nut to eat and avoid eating other nuts that I was afraid were anti-androgenic as mentioned here, i.e. pistachios and almonds. Nuts are so healthful. It truly sucks. After what happened to me with taking large amounts of cocoa, I wouldn’t want to return the favor by suggesting you to try eating cacao nibs if you think it might regrow your penis. At least not in the amounts that I did.

What’s maddening about all this is having to limit intake of plant sterols and polyphenols and all the antioxidant and cancer-fighting goodness of plants and fruits. Pulling out my phone to google every time I’m in the produce section of the grocery store! Oh, and also you shouldn’t be eating grilled or barbecued meats because of on top of avoiding healthy plant foods, we have lowered 3a-HSD which turns out to be a powerful antioxidant against carcinogenic things like polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons which is found in meat cooked with an open flame or charred meat. Anyway, I am going to slowly add back those foods that I miss once this blows over for me, maybe in a month or so. Just have to remind myself not to eat anything in too large amounts as you’ve said.

#73

Well in either case I’m sorry again for posting misinformation, I really thought macademia nuts were safe at first. Like I said I went to some lengths to find macademia nut butter because it wasn’t available in regular stores and I planned on getting it to eat until I found out about the DHT. I should’ve posted about my findings later on cause there’s a lot of misinformation on this forum and I don’t wanna contribute to that.

This is the same reason I stopped eating brocolli every day, I read some negative things about plants in general that might not have been safe. But I’m still unsure cause I eat eggs literally every day with no problems. And is oatmeal safe cause I read that it increases testosterone. I boil and eat that every day too. If it isn’t safe then I’m immune to food 5AR activity cause I’ve eaten large amounts of dark chocolate, cacao nibs, and avocados. I guess it’s only a powerful 5AR inhibitor like finasteride that can cause me problems.

#74

So after those two days of eating macadamia nuts and two nights of early awakenings, I am back to sleeping up to 5h30min. Go figure.

No problem. That’s great news then. I would just try to eat a healthful balanced diet and focus on maintaining a healthy life style/avoid bad stress. What’s different between us is that I’ve a history of insomnia due in part to my life style/solitude:

Also that I took finasteride later than you did, in August 2018. When did you take fin?

I personally try to eat a plant-based diet. Apparently for the time being that might work against me if I’m not careful, i.e., eat too many healthy things at once. I eat organic oatmeal every day too. What’s wrong with broccoli? I eat that every day with some mustard powder for the sulforaphane. It also has diindolymethane (DIM).

#75

Back to 3 hours of sleep now. I ate some blue berries, black grapes, and red peppers in a salad last night. I can’t believe this. Imagine me trying to explain this shit to my doctor lol

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#76

I don’t remember what’s wrong with brocolli lol, but I bet it impacts 5AR in some way.

Blue berries do inhibit 5AR but you ate a few, not a lot, and it did that? Your sensitivity is crazy.

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#77

I remember eating a lot of clementines as well on the days leading to and including this one. I think that was a huge mistake too. Been only able to stay sleep for 2.5 hours last two days. Losing hope.

#78

Hope is important. That you’ve slept for longer so recently means you can do it again.

It’s frustrating when we can’t work out why things resolve or get worse. I feel it too.

If you feel that your diet contributes to this, perhaps you should consider what you can do to eliminate problem foods and find out what doesn’t cause you trouble.

Sorry if you’re already doing this, I may have missed the posts.

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#79

Hesperidin e Diosmin suppresses AR and testosterone.
Goodluck :unamused::unamused::unamused:

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#80

I’ve been taking pictures of everything that I eat. I accidentally ate fermented soy.

I woke up today with blurry, snowy vision. Now I have a headache on the right side of my head and bad nausea. I’m heaving and can barely sit upright.

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