Voice - back from Dr Shippen, updates

in my case he told me that my hormones pretty much look normal. He also told me that does not mean that there is not a problem. He then told me about 10 different types of treatment he could try. He first gave me clomiphene citrate to be 3 times a week at just 10 grams a pill. Im getting tested tomarrow to see if the pill is raiseing my T levels. Im at about 500 dhl but shippen told me my body might need to run on higher level. If this has no effect then i will be trying dophimine along with maca-3 and vitamen D.

Shippen told me that there is about a 75 to 80 percent chance that he can get me back to normal. He also told me it could take a couple years.

He said hes hopeful in my case because my hormones are not way out of wack. He told me that he had some patients that had low t levels and nothing seem to work in healing them he said this was only about 20 to 25 percent. So wish me luck on my healing and i hope im not part of the 20 percent.

I think though that it is a good investement on my part to go and see him it cost me probally 1000 total with travel and appointment cost. but now i am one of his patients and i can do phone appointments from now on they cost about 120 dollars a pop and are half an hour.

dr. shippen also told me it would be very hard to sue merk. because everyone that he has seen has something different then the next patient. some have to low of t levels and some have fine but have other hormonal problems. It would be hard to blame it on propecia even though it seems obvious to me. Either way we should at least try to get money for our hospital cost. It really is bull shit though and if i dont get better i might just start a fire at merk head quarters by accident of course :smiling_imp:

Nice to see you back Voice, I was wondering how your appointment went!!
Did he mention any ideas as to why Finasteride caused these issues?

How do you feel since starting the clomid, any changes, improvements? Any side effects?

Did he mention trying hCG?

Did you mean to say “dopamine” or “yohimbine”?

And Maca and Vitamin D are just natural supplements which you can purchase in any health food store… why would he go from clomid to some weakm natural supplements? I’m very surprised by this… please clarify…

What are your T and more importantly I believe it should be Free T levels ?

Did he take a full panel of his own tests, from his own familiar labs?

And did he talk much about estrogens, and do a variety of different types of estrogen testing?

Crisler does a lot of looking at estrogens. I believe he believes this the source of many of our problems, and prostate problems.

So I’m wondering if he’s concerned about Free T.

ALso, any other hormones he’s talked about?

His bloodwork is here:


first i had to do all new test i mean like 1400 dollars worth of hormonal tests, and all my hormones were in a normal range. He said that made it a little harder and that he would just try different things. He told me hormonal replacement is the last step i want to take. He says he recommend vitamen D for all his patients and that maca3 could help rasie libido naturally. Bascially he gave me some herbal treatments as well because he wants to try everything he can with out useing hormonal replacement. Even the clominde im takeing is very weak amount. If the pill form doesnt work then i will have too inject it. If that does not work then he said that i could try dophimine. I know i spelt that wrong but i dont know that much about that treatment because thats not first on the agenda. If i end up taking that drug shippen will give me more details. He also recomended taking ropes, as well as bee pollen just some more naturally things that have worked for people.

What, like taking ropes and then tying them around your neck!!? :smiling_imp: …that sounds like a good idea!!

Sounds like he is very reluctant to try much at all.

Why, you still haven’t told us about your FREE T or much about estrogens…
Did you even have a conversation with him at all about anything estrogen??

I would be concerned that maybe he is overlooking things as maybe the all too common “everything seems to be within range” diagnosis. :unamused:

Did he write these things down,

because I would be concerned with hearing all about precisely what this is. I would like to hear about how this


goes. :confused:

I’d say he’s just being conservative about what he puts Voice on, since his hormone levels don’t appear to have any significant abnormalities. Jumping off the deep end is what got us all into this mess to begin with.

Thanks for the info Voice, please keep us in the loop.

my estrogens are in normal range compared to my T levels. He said if this clominde raises my T-levels but i dont feel better he going to check my estrogen. A comon problem when raising T levels is that estrogen grows higher as well a lot higher. Im sorry my comments have been disorganized but i can assure you he knows what he talking about and that he views propecia as a terrible drug that should never have bee put on the market. The reason my treatment is light is because he does not want to screw me up even further with extreme measures.

voice how are you sleeping if you don’t mind me asking?

my sleeping habits our not that great. For a while they were but now i have been slacking. I have no sleeping problems though i fall right to sleep when ever i want to. I should get to bed earlier seeing as how i am wrighting this at 5:40am.

Why do you ask

i am currently on naltrexone and selegine for three weeks hopefully i will see some change.

Voice, can you elaborate on why he put you on both these treatments? Did you have high Prolactin (hence the Selegiline)?

As for Naltrexone, seems its an opiod receptor antagonist often used to help people get off alcohol. According to Wikipedia – en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naltrexone

Also, this:

sciencedirect.com/science?_o … 6904d0baf8

My guess is Shippen is trying to boost your Dopamine to stimulate libido/erections by both lowering prolactin and using Naltrexone. Have you seen ANY progress so far since trying either the Clomid or these new treatments?

Voice, if you go to the “Recoveries” section of this forum you will find some “secon hand info” about Shippen´protocol. That post mentions that Shippen has had a 50 to 75% success rate by prescribing CLOMID or HCG. My question is if HCG is still being prescribed y Shippen with some good success rate. I took Clomid for a very long time and it definitely helped but I´n not recovered yet. Is taking HCG some sort of hormonal recplacement??? I´m very interested in his since I´m seriously thinking about getting into HCG. For the other guys n the fourm, what you think about getting into HCG???

Finally, I want to know what were your symptoms in your worst days, what symptoms have subsided and for how long did you take that damn poison. Thanks for your answers.

Voice wrote:

Very interesting. I talked to Dr. Shippen’s assistant last year and she said

She said this in response to my plans for flying over to the States from Europe to see the Dr.

HCG is a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog that will stimulate your leydig cells to produce more testosterone. So yes, it’s a weaker form of trt.

Depending on how bad you are affected I can hardly believe that Clomid/HCG will do much good if even hard core trt/hrt won’t get the job done (as in my case). Having said that, it won’t do much harm to try either, keeping HCG at dosis <500IU per day. Don’t experiment with either without professional supervision if you don’t have previous experience with these things. HCG will stimulate testicular aromatase though, which - under normal circumstances - would not be a big problem. If your body is reacting normally to estrogens but has lost it’s ability to react normally to androgens, then you’ve got a problem with anything that increases estrogen. This will include Testogel/Androgel and HCG. I have packs of HCG at home and currently won’t touch the stuff for exactly that reason.

Hi I’m still new to all this can someone tell me what that Dr. Shippen does that a normal doctor can do.

Dr. Shippen is an authority in the field of male hormone replacement and author of the book “The Testosterone Syndrome”. He also has experience in treating finasteride cases. But if he had the answer to our problem then we would all go and see Dr. Shippen and go home.

You will find a list of other options in the “Doctors and Lawyers” section.

Oh OK Thanks for the reply

dr. shippen is a family practice doctor so he is not a specialist in the field he even told me he does not why so many people have sought him out. The reason i went is because the doctors i was going to would not perscribe me anything, and i think when you have been in this state for over a year you better start looking for some answers. I have not seen to much progress with my treatment so far besides the fact that my libido is stronger. The numbness is still present. I have a hunch that the clomiphene will help me i was off it for a little while while i tried some different drugs but i am back on it with a double dose now. I have always had a hunch that it could be my testosterione since my t levels have been declining. When i was on the low dose of clomiphene it got me up to like 600 hundred our 700 i would be suprised if i was a guy that ran off of 900 our more, and it is true that they have not had to much look treating this. The reason Dr. shippen said it was about an 75-85 percent chance for me is because my hormones our not out of wack, and i had my hormones tested and they our responeing to drugs. thats were the problems come in for majority is that they have low T levels and no treatments will raise them.

This is very encouraging voice… libido is one of the things almost everyone here wishes they could get back.

  1. Can you estimate how much stronger your libido is now that you’re on clomid? ie, 50% of what you used to be before Fin? Do you feel “horny” at all, get turned on looking at porn?

  2. Have you seen any change in penis/scrotum size?

  3. Are you getting morning/nocturnal/spontaneous erections?

  4. Any effect from the naltrexone?