Update: still completely recovered, raging libido for the last four years

Therapeutic Efforts
#573

Wetaka- I also had muscle twiches and light sensitivity and cognative problems and trouble sleeping and panic attacks. People with just androgen problems should not have muscle twitches for example, those are caused by the fact that 5 alpha reductase creates an entire cascade of hormones, not only the androgens, for example it creates dihydrocortisol which is responsible for building the aqueous humor of the eye, which is what causes the light sensitivity, the same problem must occur with the receptors of these other non-androgen hormones, which is why the body responds as if they are not present, although tribulus has only been investigated for its upgrade of androgen receptors, its mechanism of action must take place at the enzyme level and act upon 5 alpha reductase directly, like saw palmetto except with the opposite effect, which is why it cured me of those symptoms as well.

I cant understand why we have light sensivity and less brilliant eyes… (dead eyes)

#574

Almost finished my 2 weeks low does cycle, good sensations, my poor libido was probably caused by low dopamine action (could b for taking 2 much coofee maybe not related 2 tribulus). Im going to be off it for 1 week and then come back to a higher dose 1 week cycle… lets see…So far good

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#575

This hypothesis was presented also in RayPeat Forums, but fortunaly protodioscin seem to improve receptors inside brain right? Lets see

#576

If your body creates a lot of DHT from the trib, it can oppose estrogen and you won’t have libido.
This is why estrogen + dht worked for pssd. It was a rat study but I think it applies

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#577

So if the oversaturated receptors lead to decrease in 5AR, why are our serum DHT levels normal?

#578

Decrease in 5AR in the central nervous system. DHT in serum can appear normal, but looking at neurosteroids in the brain reveals that 5AR1 activity in the CNS is significantly suppressed:

Basically what is happening is that for whatever reason, normal serum levels of testosterone and DHT are causing suppression of 5AR enzyme in the brain. The brain likely has some way of sensing levels in serum, through a combination of peripheral and local androgen receptors. If something is wrong with those receptors (under/overexpressed?) then it will ‘sense’ too high androgen levels, and since androgens NEGATIVELY regulate 5AR1 in the brain, this leads to suppression:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10635616_Differential_regulation_of_steroid_5alpha-reductase_isozymes_expression_by_androgens_in_the_adult_rat_brain

The gene expression of 5alpha-R type 2 is under the positive control of T and DHT. The gene that codes for 5alpha-R type 1 is not constitutive, because its expression is negatively regulated by T and DHT.

There is in all likelihood something wrong with the receptors and the way the brain ‘reads’ androgen levels leading it to believe there is way too much of them causing it to shutdown its local 5AR1.

3 Likes
#579

Fenugreek-Testofen (a special branch of fenugreek that as lots of protodioscin on it) has 5arinhibitor propierties and I felt good on it.

#580

That former study is about not at the time some time after finasteride, but during finasteride, or under the effect of finasteride.

#581

Why would tribulus cause a lot of dht production? Also it seems very far fetched that too much dht would crash estrogen to the point of having no libido, if anything the increased dht would increase your libido.

#582

Tribulus can cause an increase in DHT. People respond differently to it. For me, my DHT skyrockets on Trib. My beard grows like a weed.

Subsequently, if I go too high on Tribulus, my estrogen reduces, I experience fatigue and loss of libido. It is a deduction that the increased DHT is opposing the estrogen to a significant degree.

#583

After 2 ish cycles, I notice a sweet spot at about 2 capsules a day. Perhaps 1.5 a day, actually.

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#584

Does anyone know one that can be deliverd to Japan?
I wasn’t able to find it. What should I do?

#585

Tribulus does seem to be anti-estrogenic but I believe it is more to do with the saponins in the plant which compete for the estrogen receptor thus displacing estradiol. As I’ve noticed this anti-estrogenic effect even in low quality trib which had none of the classic benefits of protodioscin.

My libido on Trib is fine while I’m on 1 capsule but becomes nonexistent as I go higher.

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#586

Hello good news. Yesterday I took as ending dose for 2 week cycle, half a pill of Mediherb Tibulus. Yesterday I had more libido with some old feelings rediscovered. But mostly important today I woke up without any anxiety at all. I have been a long term suffering anxiety since PFS. Im going to stay without any tribulus 5 days, and make a 1 week cycle after that.

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#587

If lack of dht were the problem then taking dht or even proviron would reliably lead to improvement, but this is not the case.

#588

I’m not even remotely sure how you came to that conclusion from reading my post. Can you point out the part where I concluded or even suggested that ‘lack of DHT’ is the problem?

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#589

You said 5ar was shut down, implying that lack of 5ar reduced substances (including dht) is the problem.

#590

I tried a triptorelin shot and it didn’t do anything. The link @Apr1989 mentioned has been out of stock for a while now. Anyone here know other sites which do offer the real deal?

#591

Took my last trib yesterday morning. Feel better off it today, but no morning wood today. Libido is high however.
Gonna wait a bit again and see how things work out. Gotta feeling i need a solid break between these cycles.

1 Like
#592

Maybe triptorelin (GnRH) should be used in a pulsatile wat.