Update: still completely recovered, raging libido for the last four years

Therapeutic Efforts
#329

Identification of a regulatory loop for the synthesis of neurosteroids: a steroidogenic acute regulatory protein-dependent mechanism involving hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis receptors

Another implication of our results is that the change in expression of brain hormone receptors as a result of peripheral changes in sex steroids and gonadotropins may lead to altered signaling by those receptors involved in functions other than the regulation of NSS production. For example, the E2 and P4 induced decrease in GnRHR expression may modulate neuronal transmission, as GnRH1 and analogues can enhance synaptic transmission via iono-tropic glutamate receptors (Lu et al. 1999). Similarly, P4 induced suppression of ERĪ± expression is consistent with previous findings in the rat uterus (Kraus and Katzenellenbogen 1993; Katzenellenbogen 2000), and indicate that crosstalk between these two sex steroids may play an important role in both the regulation of ERĪ± signaling and progesterone receptor signaling in the brain.

At the end of the day tribulus can help to the recovery after Triptorelin but seem that what probably make the difference was GnRH

2 Likes
#330

So just want to update some peeps.I have moved up to 3g a day of sportfood trib from amazon. Been waking up with consistent hard wood. This is a tremendous change. Iā€™m basically sold at this point to continue cycling.
One important note is that its common to not have libido on these cycles as 5ar and DHT are surging which would oppose estrogen (which is needed for libido, passion). This was discussed at some length on a fellow forum which some members here may know of.

I dont know, or canā€™t compare rather, sportfood to mediherb.

Separately, It is very important to exercise whilst doing these cycles, on an off.

3 Likes
#331

HPA Axis and Sleep

#332

Whatā€™s the verdict on VemoHerb? Iā€™ve been using it for a while but lately I feel like I plateauā€™d on the benefits, despite going up to 6 pills I donā€™t feel much more effect than from 3 pills, maybe even the opposite. I tend to lose my libido while on it though Iā€™ve read that is normal.

I think it contains a lot of herbal estrogens which kind of counter the protodioscin and may not contain as much protodioscin as advertised.

I have bought the Tribesterone brand so will compare with that, though MediHerb is still probably the best, just price wise, itā€™s out of reach for me at the moment.

#333

Just based on my reaction to it at the start, and having run both VemoHerb and Medi Herb Iā€™d personally rank the Vemo Herb at half the strength of the Medi Herb.

1 Like
#334

So given that the OP was using 8 and sometimes up to 12 pills weā€™d need to take 20+ pills of VemoHerb in a day which is asinine, I canā€™t imagine eating that many pills in a day, never mind all the filler which would be bad on your gut.

Pure protodioscin would probably be ideal, that IS assuming that it is ONLY the protodioscin in Tribulus that is helping.

#335

Iā€™m not an expert on tribulus, but I also plateau after a while, and I think that is normal.
I also lose my libido on tribulus, and it doesnā€™t return until I cycle off.

What I do gain though, while on cycle, is morning wood, which previously was non-existent.

Again, I theorize aromatization plays a part here but I donā€™t have any solid proof of that.

#336

Have any of you trialing this experienced changes in penile sensation/anorgasmia?

#337

Somewhat from Tribulus, but much more results on that front from Creatine. Unfortunately, Creatine is kinda risky if you use it before youā€™re ready.

#338

Now that you mention it, I am now confused, I was using a ton of tribulus like two weeks before I used creatine, like 3 to 4 days of been on creatine a big surge of libido and then I crashed.
Tribulus, creatine or combination?

#339

If you keep combining things youā€™ll never know unfortunately

#340

If we are theorizing that the mechanism of action of tribulus is the increasing of androgen receptor density. Wouldnā€™t it make sense to take all supplements and do all activities that increase androgen receptor density? For example, the following are all proven to increase androgen receptor density:

  • Intermittent fasting
  • Resistance training
  • L-Carnitine Tartrate
  • Mucuna Pruriens
  • Caffeine
  • Forskolin
  • Tribulus
1 Like
#341

You have just named a lot of things that have been used variously by many people who report improvements. The question is if any of these have also negative effects for (some) PFS sufferers that might make them less advisable, as in the case of caffeine, which releases cortisol.

Certainly fasting and heavy weights are already in extensive use among people reporting gains and many here (including myself) do advise them. They do not appear to carry any drawbacks, other than if you have a medical condition which precludes fasting, such as diabetes, or if your body responds horribly to exercise.

I would be interested to hear from others if l-carnitine or macuna pruriens have detrimental effects. They have also been recommended by users. Never seen Forskolin mentioned before.

1 Like
#342

What exactly did you mean by this ā€˜Estrogen is being recognizedā€™ ?

You may be more right than you believe. Something strange is happening in my body right now! Iā€™ve got a gyno flare up for no reason the past week. My nipples feel like I am on Finasteride again, out of nowhere. The last thing I took prior to that was some Mucuna Pruriens for 3 days or so.

Iā€™ve started using topical DHT and Androsterone because my nipples are now burning all day long. Despite not taking anything for over a week, the gyno continues, and the topical androgens only make it a little bit better.

It makes me think that my testosterone has suddenly increased, or my aromatase, and because my 5-AR is not yet up to scratch to balance it out, the estrogen-sensitive gyno tissue that I grew on Fin is flared up again. I hope I can stop/reverse this with topical androgens, this sh** sucks. If not I will have to hop on letro or something, but it definitely seems like something shifted in me hormonally. Itā€™s ironic because in every other aspect I feel better than beforeā€¦ WTF

#343

You seem very prone to gyno. I donā€™t know man. Seems like you have little DHT to counter the estrogen

#344

Describe how you feel better?

#345

So basically, the chronology is as follows:

  1. Done several VemoHerb tribulus cycles of up to 3 pills (Jan - May)
  2. Used Mucuna pruriens for a few days at 1g/ day (2-3 weeks ago)
  3. Suddenly, hormonal change: gyno symptoms - puffy nipples, itching, nipples feel and look like on Finasteride
  4. Did another tribulus cycle of up to 6 pills along with creatine up to 2g/day
  5. No bad reaction to creatine but stopped taking, gyno still not better
  6. Started using supplements to control the gyno - topical ANDROSTERONE, 11-keto DHT, and oral Vitamin K2 (estrogen antagonist)
  7. Gyno slowly getting better, but seems like there is a lot of old estrogen-sensitive tissue that suddenly flared up, meanwhile I am not feeling any crash or suppression from the androgens, in fact feeling better and better
  8. Today, I am feeling about 60-70% of PreFin mentally, compared to 30-40% as usual, also more energy and interest in things

I would expect to feel worse from the aromatase inhibition and all the androgens but the opposite is happening, something snapped in my body after using Mucuna (at least I think thatā€™s what triggered it) and now things seem to work differently. Overall I perceive it as the next step in recovery despite the gyno which I think I will be able to reverse with androgens. Seems like a bunch of old tissue that was left over from Finasteride usage but only NOW seemed to start to respond to estrogen again, which is strangeā€¦

My theory for what happened is that, due to AR being more sensitive after Trib, using Mucuna triggered a testosterone increase and T and E went up, but due to 5-AR still not being fully restored there is now increased aromatization which triggered the old estrogen-sensitive tissue to become sensitive again.

2 Likes
#346

J Iā€™ll get back to you

#347

I got gyno and stayed because a bad branch of tribulus

#348

Itā€™s not the Tribulus. Iā€™ve been using the same bottle for a few months now and only just now got these symptoms after using Mucuna.

Also you know that you can use letro or raloxifene to reverse it unless your growth is huge already.