Translation from french needed. Urinary Tract Hypertension

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Some time ago I came across this website
hmseurope.com/hair%20loss.htm
it is apparently the website of an antiaging medical group. Georges Debled is the director, MD, PhD of the University of Bruxelles.
The above webpage warns of the dangers of Finasteride. Debled described over 30 years ago a medical condition that incredibly reflects many of our symptoms. This syndrome is described in this study (French).
hmseurope.com/Hyperoestrog%C … ostate.pdf
I can understand it decently. I will make my best to translate it soon if none can help me in this (none?). Treatment (33 Years ago), consisted of long term Nolvadex, eventually androgen administration). After 1 year, if the sexual potency didn’t return–>penis implant, hopefully not.
In short:

In the absence of dihydrotestosterone sexual potency is reduced and prostate muscle is replaced by fibrous tissue causing prostatitis and a premature medicinal andropause disease

You are taking finasteride? WARNING : atrophy of the prostate !

A B C

Patients who have fibrosis © or abnormal prostate musculature are often young. Disorders of micturition which they complain are skilled in the medical literature of “prostatism without prostate”, which obviously has no meaning. Many of them are accused of mind and live a real physical and psychological martyrdom. This situation is all the more deplorable it is possible to treat this condition. In reality, these men have a prostate atrophy.

Most cases of atrophy of the prostate does not present gynecomastia: the syndrome is then caused by insufficient secretion of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone.
With ageing the prostate become fibrous.

Prostate atrophy produces urinary tract hypertension. How to know? hmseurope.com/urinary_tract_ … _tests.htm
-Intravenous urography
-Isotopic nephrogram
-Use of scintiscanner

Prostate atrophy constitutes an obstacle for urine elimination ( Bladder musculature doesn’t open well)

So it is much possible that our prostate had fibrosis. And this might be consistent with the difficulty on treating pfs prostatitis and sexual dysfunction. Not everything is sound, but this is interesting. Now if this is the case, how do you eliminate fibrosis from the prostate and regrow your prostate normally? I only have one possible answer to this and it doesn’t consider drugs.

Apologize to hmseurope for pasting their material.

[Finatruth]

Not fibrosis, not fibrosis in the penis either, not peyronies. Also doesnt explain how some people take this drug for 15 years with no problems until the final pill or how some people take 1 pill.

[Second_Amendment]

Okay Finatruth, we get your theory of PFS.

[Finatruth]

Not a theory SA, went to two urologist, absolutely no fibrosis nor peyronies

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Wait wait fibrosis or abnormal prostate (and penis) tissue/muscle doesn’t necessarily need to show up on the ultrasound. As you can see, in the website hsmeurope, they did’t post an ultrasound, those are biopsies or something similar and they analyzed at the microscope. Exactly as they did in the study on rats: their penis was cut off, sliced and then analyzed at the microscope. Honestly, seeing the resolution of the ultrasounds they did to me, I can hardly think of what they can see with that resolution, other than acute prostatitis, enlargement and reduction of the size. in fact in the above quotes you can read “Many of them are accused of mind” and this means ultrasound of their prostates do not show up nothing irregular much probably.

You know one thing doesn’t exclude the other, and they might be interrelated too. Also, as we are all different, one thing can be true for one, and false for the others. This is no mistery.
Surely in my case I have prostate and slight urination issues. If that can also be the cause of my moderate ED, I don’t know. But I know that my worst ED ever arised when my uro fingered my prostate, no pain no nothing but tremendous ED and penis shrinkage.

OT - Mew or Awor, I found this 2013 study on Finasteride if you want to post it.
ibj.pasteur.ac.ir/browse.php?a_c … sw=Hormone
Exogenous Testosterone, Finasteride and Castration Effects on Testosterone, Insulin, Zinc and Chromium in Adult Male Rats

Background: Although effects of trace elements on secretion of sex steroids and insulin have been studied, the effects of these Hormones on serum level of trace elements have been rarely investigated. The aim of the present study was to evaluate the effect of testosterone and finasteride administration and castration on serum levels of testosterone, insulin, zinc and chromium. Methods: Male adult rats (n = 32) were divided into 4 groups (n = 8). Group 1, control; Group 2, castration, castration was done at the first day of the study; Group 3, finasteride (20 mg/kg/day, dissolved in drinking water) and Group 4, testosterone (5 mg/kg/day, i.p.). At the end of the period of the study (35 days), serum testosterone, insulin, zinc and chromium levels were determined in the blood samples collected directly from the right atrium of the heart of the animals. Results: The data indicated that the serum levels of testosterone, insulin and zinc were significantly increased (P<0.01) in testosterone-administrated and finasteride groups, but the level of chromium was decreased in both groups (P<0.01). Castrated group had the lowest serum levels of testosterone, insulin and zinc (P<0.05). Also, the levels of serum chromium in this group were increased. Conclusion: The study demonstrates that testosterone and finasteride increases insulin and zinc levels and decreases chromium levels in the serum of male adult rats. According to these data, it seems that testosterone may affect glucose cycle through effect on serum insulin levels and trace elements such as zinc and chromium.

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Did anyone other than brazialiandude have got an MRI of the prostate? because his turned out positive with a cyst and swollen (I already searched on the forum but with no avail).

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Prostatic fibrosis is associated with lower urinary tract symptoms.
PURPOSE:
Current therapies for male lower urinary tract symptoms secondary to prostate enlargement prevent hormonal effects on prostate growth and inhibit smooth muscle contraction to ease bladder neck and urethral pressure. However, lower urinary tract symptoms can be refractory to these therapies, suggesting that additional biological processes not addressed by them may also contribute to lower urinary tract symptoms. Aging associated fibrotic changes in tissue architecture contribute to dysfunction in multiple organ systems. Thus, we tested whether such changes potentially have a role in impaired urethral function and perhaps in male lower urinary tract symptoms.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:
Periurethral tissues were obtained from a whole prostate ex vivo and from 28 consecutive men treated with radical prostatectomy. Lower urinary tract symptoms were assessed using the American Urological Association symptom index. Prostate tissues were subjected to mechanical testing to assess rigidity and stiffness. Fixed sections of these tissues were evaluated for collagen and elastin content, and glandularity to assess fibrosis. Statistical analysis included the Student t test and calculation of Pearson correlation coefficients to compare groups.
RESULTS:
Periurethral prostate tissues demonstrated nonlinear viscoelastic mechanical behavior. Tissue from men with lower urinary tract symptoms was significantly stiffer (p = 0.0016) with significantly higher collagen content (p = 0.0038) and lower glandularity than that from men without lower urinary tract symptoms (American Urological Association symptom index 8 or greater vs 7 or less).
CONCLUSIONS:
Findings show that extracellular matrix deposition and fibrosis characterize the periurethral prostate tissue of some men with lower urinary tract symptoms. They point to fibrosis as a factor contributing to lower urinary tract symptom etiology.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22906651

Do we have the same situation?
As I said in another post, this might be ONE OF the problems we have. After all Fin reduces the androgenic effect and rises the estrogenic one. Isn’t this about the same process that ageing men go through?
My question is: is there some evidence that fibrosis like this can reabsorb under normal hormonal values? after all, in this study too, the researchers didn’t have this evidence from the prostate ultrasounds (like the ones we all had). They had to get their hands directly on the prostate tissues to proove this.

[MeStupid]

One strange thing is that on fin (after 5 years) I had no problems (strong stream). The problems came only 2 monts after quitting. Can we get fibrosis after only 2 monts? Or maybe we already had it but masked by fin?

If this is the case, maybe prostate fibrosis could not only be the consequence but also a cause of hormonal imbalances.

It’s commonly said that fasting can make people younger. Once again I think that’s the only weapon we can use to revert this issue.

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I think it is possible that Fin eased the symptoms of a problem with the prostate, because it thins the epithelium if I remember correct. It is known that fin and Saw Palmetto are given to chronic prostatitis patiens to ease their symptoms. Then also when you withdraw it, hormonal changes do play an important role.

I don’t know exactly how the prostate affects the sexual function and hormonal balance. It might be possible that it plays a role. But honestly I don’t know.

I too think fasting can help us to the point of a healing. However, we need to keep track of what behavior helped and which didn’t. I just met another sufferer who tried fasting (19 days I think) some year ago, and he claimed no effects. He surely was disappointed. It doesn’t please me too, however I asked him to report his experience here on PH, it’s necessary.

[tab]

I think it is possible that Fin eased the symptoms of a problem with the prostate

It should be clear I meant that fin is the cause of the problem with prostate, but it may mask it to some extent, as long as you stay on fin itself.

[Sibelio]

Wow, the info in this thread about prostate atrophy is so depressing.

[Scott.H]

There’s a few threads like this that don’t lead anywhere. The idea that Finasteride shrunk and atrophied our prostate makes so much clear sense; we are all experiencing the side effects of what would happen if something like this occurred. Shrunken prostate leads to pinching and suppression of normal nerve function, leaves you with the feeling of a ‘numb’ penis or as if the ‘line’ between your head and penis has been cut off. We are barely able to ejaculate with the normal force as we we’re pre-FIN (for me it just drizzles out). A tremendous amount of hormones get regulation from the prostate as well, and if the prostate has atrophied/weakened, it can affect their production and secretion as well. This can lead to changes in our mood (dopamine receptors), regulation of our sleep, etc.

I know we focus a lot on the neurosteroid issue, overexpression of androgen receptor, damaged/mal-expressed androgens, damaged 5a reductace, but what if we really focused our efforts on the prostate itself. If we could re-generate the prostate to a normal healthy state, would this not help create downstream effects?

Has anyone done any prostate physical therapy or pelvic floor therapy? How can we get the prostate to re-grow itself? Remember, FIN (Proscar) was originally designed to shrink the prostate to help prevent prostate cancer. I have to imagine this effect is causing a large host of our issues.

Should we also go to Urologists and have them start measuring the atrophy of our prostate (it’s size, tissue density, etc)? Feel like this might get us somewhere.

[zodiacs]

I have been to an Urologist. He told me my prostate has the size from a man around 19y, i have 40y.Volume 23gr. I took propecia for about 20y. He told me this is very good…

[sunny11]

I think we have problems with our brains,
I get wierd muscle twitches, I don’t think that is prostate related, some time after ejaculation my hands get a little numb and starts to tingle, I don’t have diabetes,
So it must be CNS related. These muscle twitching get worse after ejaculation.
And get better if I don’t ejaculate.

Also I experience perennial, testicle and penile Pain after ejaculation with emerged veins, this pain is worse when standing less worse when sitting almost non-existent when laying, which point toward muscle related problem. Which again is related to CNS.

I took finastride for only a month or two a total of 30 mg.
So I don’t think that is enough to shrink my prostate

[Greek]

Does the doctor think your prostate was held at the size it was when you began using propecia 20 years ago? It might be helpful to have it tested again in a year to see if it has lost/maintained/gained size since then.

[zodiacs]

Hi @Greek,

Yes, he told me that this is from my Propecia usage since i was 20y old. This where also my thoughts to test it again later to check how it is evolving.

[joey10]

this makes sense, I also leak after urinating, never took fin, propecia, accutane. Either caused by crash diet for 6 months or from steroid antifungal cream. Took me a year of searching the internet to find I have many symptoms in common with you all. Got my DHT tested and it came back at 220 (300-850)

I have numb genitals, no morning wood/ spontaneous wood, leaking urine, feeling of urine stuck in urethra, genitals feel detached from body/brain, 0 libido, cold feeling down there, discomfort in right testicle, groin, vas deferens, no feeling in ejaculation, its like the whole tract is frozen out. I also have dry tired eyes, very low semen volume that just oozes out 2-3 drops 80% of the time.

I have seen neurologist, endocrinologist, neuro surgeon, and urlogists and for the last 18 months and nobody has a fucking clue what is going on. Im only 24 and this all started when I was 21 and is depressing the living hell out of me. These were supposed to be the best years of my life, instead they are the worse!

[joey10]

urologist just prescribed me some medicine for prostate irritation. Im scared to even try out, especially when he mentioned it was plant based medicine. Immediately thought of saw palmetto. It feels like the whole pelvis needs liquid to function. Thats why I have the pain on the right side. The prostate for whatever reason is not working how it should thats why I have low sperm volume that just oozes out. Numb genitals etc?

[Sibelio]

I’m so sorry, mate! I have many of the same urinary problems. Can you check the ingredients of the plant based medicine the urologist prescribed you?

[joey10]

he prescribed me it, I didn’t go pick it up , so I would not know the ingredients. The name of the medicine is here in Croatia is called PROSTAMOL. What are your urinary symptoms?