Thissucks' tests results (UPDATED: 24-hour urine/4th blood test/Crisler visit details)

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#21

Hey guys, sorry about the lack of response on my end. I’ve been really busy with school and with all these health problems it makes it just that much harder to get through each day.

Yes, I met with him in Michigan. He did not act optimistic, in fact, he said that he warns Propecia users that he “has no idea what to do for them.” While an alarming and sobering point, I guess you could say you appreciate his honesty.

Hey Quint, while I agree that it’s good that I sucked it up and drove out to see Dr. Crisler, I’m getting less and less optimistic about this whole situation. I felt nothing for the first 2 weeks of the tamox treatment, and then in the third week I started to get extremely uncomfortable testicular pain that has now forced me off the drug. I’ve been off the drug for the past week now just hoping the pain goes away.

Now I’m somewhat scared that something is wrong with my testes themselves. I just don’t know whats going on inside of me. Sexually, I’m dead. I’m talking with Dr. Crisler on Thursday, so hopefully he’ll have some insight on what to do next…

#22

Could you try to find out if the “testicular pain” could be a good sign?
Such as your testes responding to the treatment. Increasing size, and testosterone production. Because didn’t most of us go through pain in our testes when we all came down with this problem, maybe we must experience some getting back to point A.

Does anyone else see where I’m getting at here, and agree.

I think, personally, that my testes aren’t quite doing their job. I think T:E ratio is probably off, and this is why I’m having light prostate problems, testes are bit shrunken, T levels are still probably quite low, and there is still some sexual dysfunction.

#23

Sorry to hear that the Tamox caused pain and that it hasn’t been smooth. However, try not and get to discouraged – what might work for one may not for another, obviously. The Tamox wasn’t the long-term solution for me either. Also, don’t forget that my T levels were actually very healthy at the time I began taking it, and so that is likely a very good reason for why I felt good so soon after taking it. It’s really too bad something couldn’t be done about the testicular pain to see the treatment through (like some tylenol 3, or whatever? I don’t know).

Another thing is, don’t give up on getting better. The main objective is feeling good, not necessarily having good labs, and not even necessarily having our bodies kick back into gear and resolve the issue on their own. I basically decided a while ago that, if I have to go on TRT, then so be it. And I’ve actually seen my T levels go up to fine levels, but I’m just so anxious to feel good, that, you know what? If it takes some routine injections or whatever, then, fuck it. Gimme the shit.

I think a lot of people in here think that this is like surrendering or giving up. I felt the same way for ages actually. Since your T levels have been traditionally on the low side, there’s no reason to think that an influx of Testosterone (even if it isn’t yours) won’t have you swinging again. At least, if nothing else, seeing if you can get on a trial type TRT thing maybe to just test out the gear, and give you something positive to chew on for a while instead of dwelling on the finality of all of this.

i’m very interested to hear any update! Did you speak to Crisler yet? Still waiting?

#24

Also, as boston mentioned, I also have wondered when I hear you or others speak of testicle pain if it couldn’t possibly be a positive sign. I have no idea, obviously, but I think it’s reasonable to speculate that growing testicles might not feel so great. I’ve never seen anyone theorize anything about that convincingly, one way or another.

#25

if that was a ‘positive sign’ then there should have been an improvement in overall condition if the body was indeed bringing itself back to equilibrium

i was under the impression that he did not improve , it was a wise choice to get off the drug imo

#26

I hear what you’re saying, but what are you basing that on? Libido, erections (morning and night versus daytime), and all of the other crap that goes along with this finastride condition can come and go at different times for some. For instance, someone’s testes might start producing testosterone but might be delayed in reacting to its very own signal to start ramping up semen/sperm, especially if there are other factors interfering with that signal chain (like estrogens).

I have absolutely ZERO medical training, so again this is not informed theory, but just because he was feeling no positive effect does not rule out that the meds were effective at their job, and it does not prove that testicle pain can only be bad if no positive effects are felt, IMO. Tamoxifen’s objective (under these circumstances) is to elevate endogenous Testosterone production. It does nothing to address the presence of estrogens. Of course, theoretically, I think, since it does temporarily block E2 from binding, it is common to feel better during a treatment of Tamox provided, I think, that there’s enough T circulating to feel the benefit. I felt better while taking it after only about five or six days, but my T levels were already decent. In thissucks’s case, his T levels have been sort of borderline bottom range, give or take, so IF the Tamox was going to work it’s possible that it could have taken several more weeks or the full eight-week cycle even, because they were in a deeper “sleep.”

Anyway, again, I’d certainly like to hear the latest.

#27

Well I talked to Dr. Crisler before Halloween, and he didn’t mention anything about the pain being a good thing. He said he’s never heard of Tamox causing testicular pain, so he doesn’t think it’s the cause. He suggested I restart the tamoxifen, and go see a doctor if the pain comes back.

Once I went off the drug however, the testicular pain decreased to a fraction of what it was before. It didn’t go away completely, but it went down to about 20% of what it used to be. Could it be a coincidence?

So of course I listened to the doc and got back on the Tamoxifen. I’ve been on it for another 2 and half weeks now. The testicular pain has NOT intensified like last time (at least so far), so that whole thing is still a mystery to me (though my balls still hurt some).

How I feel on the Tamoxifen is not very encouraging. If anything, I feel even less horny on the tamox then I do off of it. My sexual side feels completely shut off, I feel like a robot.

One interesting thing though is that I get erections very easily. Its kinda weird because many times they are non-horny erections. I get some spontaneous and morning erections now. I have a girlfriend and I get erect very easily around her, however I have very very little sexual urge.

So I guess it is possible that the tamoxifen might be working somehow. Maybe something is changing inside of me but the hormones are still out of wack, I don’t know. I do know that I currently feel worse than ever before. But maybe it will get worse before it gets better. We’ll see how these next 5 weeks play out on the tamox and see if anything positive happens.

#28

I have been there too. These erections on tamoxifen are absolutely flowless. I was hoping for something good but realized it was a total disapointment very soon, when everything started getting worse. I was recovering from the doctor based experiment with steroids for many months then.

#29

When I was one the tamox I really found it was a mixed bag, but overall good. But yeah, there frequently seems to be not a whole lot of a connection between erections and libido. I asked Dr Crisler recently why in the world, for instance, I could have good testosterone levels, and therefore my testes are alive, and yet they do not produce ordinary anounts of semen, but he said that different things come with time more than others. I seem to get quite a few “soft head” erections, as though blood hasn’t even made it all the way to the tip.

I can’t recall, thissucks, have you had any blood tests since the tamox? It would be interesting to see at least if it boosted you T levels at all.

#30

This is exactly why my endo knows the problem is not hromonal. Hormons are ok. He knows that the problem is neurological, but he does not know what can could be blocking neural pathways, because everything is fine from the hormonal point of view. He told me recently that endos who try to treat this condition even if hormons are ok, they simply like money more then their patients. I can honestly say after my devastating experience with steroids therapy, that he is propably right.

#31

How can u say that?

Hormones are not fine for alot of ppl in here. Have u studied the Bloodtest section?

Beeing in range may be considered normal but let me tell you that the normal value in statisctics are made from huge quantites of men aged 18-70 or similar.

How come in our group that is probably alot younger than ranges-group in general barely scrape the bottom 1/3 of the value that the rangegroup provide with the exception of a few.

Now take e2 our group would easily hit the top 1/3 of the ranges if not higher with the exception of a few.

Also consider that many of us have thyriod issues and adrenel issues.

Or progesterone issues like myself, i have more than x2 the top value.

the list goes on…

You not miracly feeling better from steroids do not mean that you or this group dont have hormonal issues. Then i could argue that since i got all my libido back and more when on TRT it has to be a hormonal issue only. No offense.

#32

It is great that you feel ok on TRT. It did not work in my case in any way. It was a total disaster. Something about ranges: . I was working for the multicorp in Budapest and I had a free medical assistance. I had hormonal tests many times in my life. My libido was something subnatural that each of my girlfriends could barely understand. I also asked myself many times what else I am designed for except for “fuck”. At the same time my testosteron levels were always in 1/3, when we looked into the range.

Now my testosteron is up the roof and my libido is of the 70 years old male (I am 28).

#33

I agree its great i was doing good sexually on trt, i think it brings hope to all of us.

Im sorry your exp was not a good one.

If hormone replacing was as easy as getting T into the top range and everything was okay we would obviously not be in the situtation we are in. Nore would their be crowded support forums for ppl with hypogonadism.

Join yahoo hypogonadism group (if not allrdy) for some insite in how tricky HRT really is. Its about balance.

I feel our hormones are screwed, no doubt. Getting them right is so hard cause when u correct one thing the other falls etc and they need to be balanced and we all have a different balance.

Ex of normal.

Lets say a normal hight of a male is 160-195cm.
A normal arm lenght would be 75-100cm
A normal leg lenght would be 80cm-110cm

im thinking we look like a 163cm tall guy with legs up to are nipples and
arms that reach our ankles.

Yet by the ranges we are considered normal.
That is how i truly feel our situation looks like.

And the most likely way i c a cure coming our way is for ppl to try stuff.
Thats why i dont want to c posts such as MY doc knows this isent about hormones etc cause it brakes us down it makes us scared it keep us in check living on in fear of trying what could be only way out of this hellhole for some! Now i understand you have tried something wich i think is exellent so all credit to that.

I can understand ppl are scared of hormones after all we been through and rather eat broccolli for the rest of their lives. But that aint gonna be what gets ppl out of this mess in my humble opinion.

#34

My hormonal profile is actually better than it ever was. My testosteron level is much higher than it was before I got into trouble. I tried hormonal replacement therapy designed to adress things from every possible angle. Steriods made me feel much worse. Long time after I stopped my hairloss treatment I get plenty of new issues that get me into feeling that something is going wrong with my body but honestly, I never really had most of these issues or they were not as much intense on Propecia or Dutasteride as they are now.

#35

Well your profile do look good but theres not alof of ppl with your profile in here, if u would look around u will find this.

However your profile is missing dht just like mine.

The fact that u returned to normal and then felt really bad when using a topical hairloss solution and only then started feeling bad is also a factor that makes it even harder to say what u r suffering from. You could be experiencing something completely different than many here.

How long were u off propecia b4 u started that topical solution and started feeling bad?

I felt good for 2-3 weeks b4 i started feeling really bad when coming off propecia.

who put u on steroids? Why did he put you on steroids? what kind of steroids where u on?

#36

I will write a privat message to you because it seems it is another persons thread.

#37

Yeah my erections are actually about 90% of what they used to be, so no real complaints there, but the problem is I don’t feel compelled to use them. Which defies everything about what being a man is all about. :open_mouth:

I haven’t done the blood tests yet, we’re waiting until after I’m through with the tamox. How long did Dr. Crisler have you wait after your tamox cycle before getting the tests? I would like to get the tests first without paying for a consultation, and then talked to Dr. Crisler once the results are in.

#38

He requested I get them no sooner than a month after the tamox. It was more like six weeks by the time some stuff settled down and I was able to get around to it. Unfortunately they were the worst T results I posted. I didn’t rebound well from the treatment. My T levels about three weeks after stopping arimidex were better (midrange).

I guess then the hydrocortisone hasn’t helped at all? That could be where I’m headed, treatment-wise, with my recent high DHEA results. Like you, I also have bad trouble sleeping, and getting that wakeful, energetic feeling. I’ve believed for ages that if I could get normal sleep again it might be half the battle won, but who knows. I do wake up feeling positive and happy, and frequently with a hard-on, when I’ve had a good (but rare) comatose slumber. Actually, though, sleep has improved recently, I don’t know why. Has your sleep been better at all?

#39

I haven’t noticed any improvement from the hydrocortisone, unfortunately. I’m in the same boat as you with the awful sleep, and that hasn’t changed since I’ve started taking it. Maybe the hydrocortisone will work better for you.

Sleep really does seem like a key thing to this all. Occasionally I’ll have one of those rare nights of decent sleep, but 99% of the time I wake up feel exhausted and awful. I wonder how it all ties in, and what we can do about it? It really seems reasonable to believe that if we can get our bodies the proper reparation and rest at night, our symptoms will improve.

One thing that has faded for the most part is the nausea I used to get over the summer. I don’t really get that anymore, so I guess that’s a one improvement, but I’m still really tired all the time. And it affects my mood too. I’m rarely in a good mood. I feel lethargic and emotionally-sterile all the time, and my mood reflects that.

I used to be happy a lot - sadly, those days are long gone.

#40

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