The weirdest thing has been happening

Member Stories
#1

I quit Propecia around 8 months ago - even though Propecia is not even accurate as I took 2.5mg every day.

Anyways, I crashed and my sides were mostly:

  • horrible sleep patterns (constantly woke up), no deep sleep phase only REM
  • sexual - complete loss of libido, hard to get and almost impossible to maintain solid erections, no nocturnal or morning wood

I have lost all of my hair that I gained on Fin and continue to lose ground (no problem with that) which to me is a sign that 5AR2 is active in my body.

I have first crashed my system with test and deca injections for 12 weeks and added Tamoxifen to inhibit estradiol - NO change for the better at all, it actually got worse.
After that I have started taking 25mg Clomid, 0.5mg Arimidex, 25mg Proviron and some Maca and Sativa right before sleep every day.

I’ve been taking those pills now for weeks and weeks (probably 2 months?) and initially at least got some morning wood (maybe 30-40% that would get soft again right away) but not more. Then the last few nights I have been waking up with raging erections (can’t possibly get harder).

Now I have no idea whether that’s going to last and stabilize and get better …or just crash again. But what it gives me, and why I post it here, is HOPE. That my body hasn’t stopped working, that things are in motion and there is no status quo, good or bad, that’s here to stay.

#2

Please keep us posted in regular intervals. This gives me (and others?) hope too.

#3

Will do! The past two nights have been the same as the nights before - strong nocturnal erections (that would last around 30 minutes even after waking up!), mediocre morning wood. to be continued :slight_smile:

#4

What was your lab tests prior? I’m about to start taking Proviron to reduce elevated SHBG.

#5

I don’t have any prior lab tests unfortunately and getting new ones later this week. Will keep you posted on those.
The last (very basic) tests I had are from right after quitting Fin:

Total T 188 (348-1197) - very low
Free T 7.8 (9.3-26.5) - low
SHGB 8.4 (16.5-55.9)
Cortisol 16.3 (2.3 - 19.4) - high normal
Estradiol 52.1 (7.6 - 42.4) - very high
Total Estrogen 20 (40-115) - very low

The weird part are the estrogens. While total E is low (as it should be given the very low T), E2 is way too high. So I think my problems are at least partially related to E2 dominance.

#6

Quick update, because I am going to beat this bitch:

I have always had a decent way of living with a few binges here and there but I am drastically changing my lifestyle starting this week:

Diet:
No grains, no dairy, only cooked chicken, everything else is raw and where possible organic, lots of fruits, veggies, eggs, nuts. Will start juicing as soon as my juicer arrives with a strong focus on beets, spinach, and kale. Quitting all caffeine, processed foods and most meets aside from chicken and certain fish.

Supplements:
I have also added 3g L-Acetyl Carnetine for androgen receptor sensitivity daily as well as 1,500 IUs Vitamin D2/3, 500mg transdermal Magnesium, 3-5g Potassium, 100mg Pregnenolone, Vitamin B17 via apricot seeds (which is shown to repair cells and is even studied for use in cancer patient).

Fast:
Starting next week I am going on a 8 day fast using “Nature’s Secret Ultimate Fasting Cleanse” for the first 5 days, the last 3 days will be water only along with a light fiber supplement and a green powder drink mix for gut bacteria and anti-inflammattory properties. Several people and family members I know have recovered or drastically improved from serious illnesses and chronic diseases with that fast. It puts stress on the body…maybe the exact stress it needs to get a kick in the ass :wink:

Exercise:
I have always worked out regularly (5 times a week weights) and have always been in good shape with decent muscles even with PFS (acyually my muscle mass increased dramatically after stopping Fin). Will continue the 5 day work out and add a 10k run on Sundays. I am also planning to start with Bikram Yoga.

Medications:
I have ordered Seligiline and Dostinex to boost Dopamine and reduce Prolactin. many of our symptoms (low sex drive, fatigue) are typical symptoms for high levels of prolactin. My blood tests show them “in range” but even people without PFS who have everything “in range” often have issues because the balance is not right or their individual body composition requires different levels. WIthout baseline data any test quickly becomes quite pointless and not meaningful. Will continue to use Clomid (50mg a day with a one week break every 2 weeks) and Arimidex (1mg EOD with a one week break every 2 weeks). Might start using Primobolan to better evaluate E2 dominance.

Sleep:
I have a stack of Ambien and Xanax (just in case) but will use only my Allopregnanolone nasal spray every night (one week break after every 2 weeks).

Let the games begin… I have made nice progress and hope this will help me go further down that road back:…

I couldn’t be more excited and more committed. There is not a doubt in my mind that it is all solvable for all of us, we just gotta find the trigger that flips the switch again, to switch on what suddenly got turned off. We are all fully developed men and there’s no reason why our bodies can’t change yet again. Wouldn’t be the first time! :slight_smile:

I don’t expect a miracle cure but will keep you all posted over the weeks. I also have a bunch of salvia hormone test kits at home that I will use to track any changes in that department too.

I have a few more things in the pipeline (medications such Xyrem, IGF-1, Andractim, Armour and Dexomethasone among others, additional supplements and other lifestyle changes) that I want to try but will keep you posted once I get started on those. One step at a time :slight_smile:

I tiny problem/drawback is that I am currently moving from the LA to London and starting a new job so a few things won’t be possible to the extent I want them to for a little bit with all the chaos but it shouldn’t take too long until I am settled again and ready to focus better.

#7

good luck chelated! let us know how it goes

#8

Congrats. Positivity is essential on your way to recovery.

#9

How’s your T levels doing now?

Does that not concern you or make you feel shit in any way?

#10

Those were my T levels approx 4 weeks after quitting Fin. I am checking again in around 2 weeks but I can feel the raise in T in my nocturnal and morning erections which are stronger and more frequent than they were back then. That being said, I don’t think Testosterone levels or synthesis is our problem. I suspect either AR overexpression or another hormonal issue aside from T.

Like everyone I have moments were I am annoyed, but overall I am feeling good - I have a great family, amazing friends, and a pretty nice career. That’s more than many people can claim to have. No reason to freak out about the things that are not perfect at the moment :slight_smile:

#11

Hope your T levels rise within range for you then.

Keep us posted.

My own personal concern with my current T level of 6.9nmol is that it can lead to bone disease and heart problems if it remains low or untreated.

#12

low T definitely needs treatment - regardless of PFS.

Have you tried to boost your own T production? E.g. via Tribulus, Sativa, D-Aspartic Acid, etc?

If that doesn’t help I’d try Clomid or another SERM.

If that doesn’t help I’d try low dose HCG.

And if that still does not help you might consider TRT.

#13

Thank you for your suggestions

Very much appreciated my friend.

Let me know your latest T results when you get them.

Best of luck

#14

Quick update:

I took half a dose of Dostinex (0.5mg) two days ago and have been running around like a horny teenager ever since with constant spontaneous erections throughout the day and the best morning wood today I had in a long time. We’ll see how that’s going to evolve further down the line… Here’s to life as a guinea pig haha

#15

Update:

I have been very busy the past weeks so I haven’t tried much new but things are slowly evolving. Slowly…
I continue to have regular strong nocturnal erections and a bit less regular decent morning erections. I even had a few cases of spontaneous semi-erections during the day which I haven’t had in years during and after Fin. Oddly, sex drive is still very low though and I could go weeks without enough urge to actually have it.

Regimen right now:
50mg Clomid daily before bedtime
once a week 1mg Arimidex before bedtime

I stopped the Allopregnanolone nasal spray because it did nothing but give me headache, a stuffed nose and nausea.

#16

Quick update because I had new saliva work done, which I find much more accurate for hormones than blood. It’s not the most complete one, but was just intended to check how the basics are changing.

Testosterone and Progesterone are shooting through the roof and Estradiol, which was an issue before, is fine.

Testosterone - 1006.3 (32-100)
Cortisol - 8232 (1800-14500)
DHEA - 917 (150-620)
Progesterone - 1685 (<60)
Estradiol - 2.5 (<2.5)

I am not on TRT and have only been using Clomid 50mg EOD lately. I’m going to significantly cut that now to 10mg EOD.

#17

Don’t we all have low testosterone though? Even if the production is fine, surely all our symptoms are attributed to not utilising it correctly, meaning we’re still all susceptible the dangers associated to low t.

Mine is correctly at 32 nmol, yet I feel no better than when it was at 12 nmol. Personally I’d advice against TRT until at least a year after coming off the drug, as it seems to recover for most sufferers naturally. Artificially boosting it won’t bring any relief, and will suppress normal production in the future.

#18

I know I’ve told my story before but it’s been a while and here it is in a nutshell since this will be my last thread on here:

Started taking 1mg Propecia ED in November 2008
Increased dosage to 2.5mg Finasteride ED in March 2009

No noticeable sexual side effects until spring 2011. Looking back though I had stopped having nocturnal, morning and spontaneous erections within a few weeks of first starting Propecia. But I had my sex drive and I had my erections when I needed them so I didn’t eve think about any issues.

I started to notice a massive drop in sex drive in early 2011: I masturbated because it was routine not because I was horny. And for the first time I had several sex partners mention that my penis wasn’t “hard enough” or “you’re not fully hard yet” even though it was all that was possible back then. That obviously made me quite upset and got me thinking. It was also then that I noticed I haven’t had morning wood in years. I know, how can you not notice that? But I just didn’t. That’s when I first thought Finasteride could be the cause of my mess since it was the only prescription drug I was taking and I at least heard from my doctor back then that some people have sexual sides but that it’s probably all just in people’s minds because the placebo group in the trials had an almost similar rate. So nothing to worry about. Oh well yeah…

I decided to quit cold-turkey in August 2011 to see what would happen. It’s important to note that by then I have not done any online research or went on any of the forums.

Within a few days I had massive night sweats (really waking up soaked wet) and constant boners, it seemed like my T or whatever other steroid hormones went through the roof.

And then, after a few weeks, it all crashed - all gone again and actually worse than ever. The whole spectrum of sexual sides and suddenly massive sleeping problems which I NEVER had before…the whole party.

Things slowly got better and by December 2011 I felt 90% recovered.

And then I did the most stupid thing. Having gotten anxious again about my hair which I lost at an for me alarming rate, I took ONE 0.25mg Propecia in February 2012 and everything completely crashed right away. And this time, things wouldn’t improve again.

I tried all kinds of supplements which helped for a few days but didn’t really change things beyond that. I had some success with Tamoxifen in summer 2012 but after around 6 weeks the effect wore off and I was back to bad. Interestingly though I have lost all my hair again I gained while on Fin and more so DHT seems to alive and kickin. I don’t want to go into more detail because my life has been completely dominated by PFS ever since.

For the following year I tried everything I read on forums like this one:
TRT in all dosages, AIs like Arimidex, Andractim, Primobolan, HGH injections, Seligiline, Dostinex … and much, much more. I have been the ultimate guinea pig. Everything I did would have some effect but it would either wear off again after just a day or two or would only affect things like appetite (e.g. while on high TRT dosages) but not the sexual issues.

These past months though I have made some significant progress. And I really don’t know why that is.

I did however change my attitude: I stopped focussing on the parts in my life that are adversely affected by PFS, I started a paleo/keto diet (with one cheat day a week), I continue to work out 5 to 6 times a week (which I did before already but I rotate my exercises more and lift heavier) and gained significant amounts of lean muscle - probably also because of my very high protein intake and under 50 grams of carbohydrates a day. I try to live an overall more “zen” lifestyle, really focussing on all the good stuff I have in my life and dropped every medication I considered not essential including Xanax, Ambien and other stuff to help me sleep. Turns out that while I may not sleep as well as I’d like to, that too is getting better.

The only drugs I continued to take were:
Clomid 50mg
T3/T4 (half the full replacement dosage)
and one 5-day cycle of 0.5mg Dexamethasone

As of now I am still on T3/T4 and nothing else.

I don’t know what helped me or if it was none of them but just time. Don’t they say that time heals all wounds? :slight_smile: Whatever it is, I don’t think there’s a quick fix. The fact is however that I have been waking up with morning wood pretty much every day for the past months (and it’s really good morning wood :slight_smile:), I also wake up with nocturnal erections and I get occasional spontaneous erections during the day again. And so far things still continue to get better. Slowly and with backlashes every once in a while - but if they happen it’s always one step back, two steps forward. I’d say I’m at around 80% of where I want to be today. Oh, and I also took a chance and started dating someone again :slight_smile:

#19

Good for you my friend.

I hope you continue to see improvements, also, good luck with the dating too.

#20

Awesome post my brother.

I have a similar history, where i stopped fin after my first six months, due to low libido, loss of morning woods. Everything came back within a couple weeks, just like the lable says. Then, two months later i hit the panic button after seeing a significant increase in hairloss in the shower. After using fin for another five months, i quit cold turkey and had a similar experience to yours. Im doing better now, 15 months post-crash, but still have a lot of room for improvement.

Two questions:

  1. Did you ever lose your libido? If so, how is that today?

  2. How’s your brain- penis connection?

I guess that’s three questions. Oh well.

Hope you continue to progress.

Beste Wunsche.