Is low testosterone the cause of gyno? I don’t think so. I have seen many posts where people have testosterone 60 0 100 but no gyno. interestingly vasectomized males, not a single one so far have I seen, with very low testosterone have no gyno. On the other hand many with normal or high testosterone and DHT have got gyno after using 5 ARIs like SP or fin.
can guys shed some light on it.
Finasteride blocks conversion of T to DHT. T that would normally metabolize to DHT cannot, so aromatizes to Estradiol instead. Increased Estradiol can cause Gynecomastia.
Ya its really not that complicated.
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about here. What would a vasectomy have to do with anything?
Some Vasectomized get the same sides (or very close to) as we do. Their LH, FSH , total T and DHT go down. They get ED and low libido etc just like us.
SP, this has already been discussed. You are comparing apples to oranges. They did not undergo androgen ablation system wide or inhibit 5AR2. BIG DIFFERENCE. There are many diseases and therapies that can cause similar symptoms (loss of libido, ED, gyno etc) but that does NOT mean they share the same root cause/mechanism.
I do not know that it is that “simple”. How do you account for the guys that have good, if not high, DHT levels, but still have gyno symptoms?
Mew , I am trying to find real cause for Gyno, and then possibly how fin/sp acted on us. We have two distinct cases. one with low DHT but no gyno, on the other hand high dht but still gyno. So our tissues are affected.
Who are these cases?
Isn’t gyno simply caused by a high ratio estrogen/androgen?
My case. I have lower than normal Total T and my DHT to low normal side yet I don’t have Gyno on the other hand there are many here who have gyno despite seemingly good total T. Kemangd and mew have far better numbers than mine on papers yet they have Gyno. These are quick example which came to my mind but I am sure if I search the forum I will find many examples.
I have top of the range DHT but still have slight gyno.
That is one cause. Others are prolactin or progesterone.
Thanks, great. So, is this the answer to the thread title?
I would say that I have seen more high progesterone guys than high estrogen guys.
But at the same time…if a form of androgen insensitivity is the cause…then active estrogen: active androgens is def a major player.
what I think is that our cells /tissues are now very sensitive to estrogen and DHT / testosterone have no effect. Maybe fin/sp irreversibly bound to our androgen receptors. We have seen fin has flat dose affect on us. It is not ratio thing.
You are right. Even though Merk only markets Propecia as a competitive inhibitor…it actually is a suicide inhibitor. When it latches onto 5AR, say goodbye to the 5AR. You have to wait for your body to synthesize new 5AR enzymes. It is irreversible.
No I don’t think 5AR die or don’t regenerate. They do as we have seen high DHT. Where this DHT has come from? It is our ARs which has saturated or got damaged. There are many meds which bind to receptors in irreversible manner.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3033242
If this is the case we will have to reactivate our receptors. I don’t know if ARs are regenerated in the cells.
The 5AR enzyme does “die” when Finasteride attached to it. Finasteride is a suicide inhibitor. Do you agree with this?
yes. I think Mew did post some study where it shows that Fin binds with enzymes irreversibly but new enzymes are regenerated ( I don’t have any source to support it). Look at this way , Awor and some other have experimented with DHT creams with zero/very minimal results.Here whether enzymes are present or not , it does not matter.
2 reasons i can think to arguee with you.
- Our problem could be neurosteroid related. Supplementing dht doesnt help this.
- Does supplementing dht get it to the right places ie prostate, oscar has posted a study revieling that prostate dht has minimal influence on blood levels, so how would supplementing via gel get it there. Possibly shoving a needle up your ass full of dht and shooting it into your prostate may help disclaimer i am not a doctor*
Basicly what im saying is dht gel is not the cure to aquired 5ar2 deficiency, how could dht or testosterone help, why would it?
Is there a study showing fin to be a suicide inhibitor? Please post if you have.
so you are saying we are short of 5ARs permanently? our bodies are not regenerating 5ARs any more?