My thoughts exactly. Seriously, you could go through some of the most powerful medications out there and recover from any side effects within a few weeks/ months. Take the apparently ‘safe’ finasteride and we are left with devastating permanent side effects.
It blows my mind to think that you can obtain finasteride over the counter in some nations. In the UK you can even get it without a doctors prescription from the high street brand ‘Boots’ on a hair loss program.
I was very interested in your blood work but at the end you wrote these art after 3 weeks on synthroid. could you give before starting synthoride? I want to see Especially your TSH, FT3 and FT4 in the presence of thyroid ABs.
Its hard for me to find bloodwork results when I have not been taking some type of meds. I have had bloodwork done probably more than 20 times. I did have a couple of times when I had not been taken any meds for a couple of months. But overall from what I can remember I can say that my total test is usually around 500 when I am not any meds, but this past test this is the most free test has been with or without meds. So I think I can say synthroid has bumped up my free test. Also my tsh is lower than its been and my LH is the highest I have seen it but only by a little bit. I will have shippen send me my bloodwork and then post. Also I am scheduled to have more bloodwork done in 2 weeks and talk to the endo again to see where we go from here. He seems certain that synthroid is the way to go to treat this. I am not so sure. He did mention something about starting clomid with synthroid possible, but he is hoping to avoid that, he really is hoping synthoid will fix everything. He sounds like he has had success with others just on synthroid who suffer PFS. From my research I am on too low of a dose, I think its need to be over 100mg. FYI I know when I am on clomid my total test usually jumps right over a 1000 quickly on small doses but so does my estradiol. The best I have ever felt was when Shippen had me on a anastrozole/clomiphene citrate .1/15mg taking one pill 3 times a week. This was from a compounding pharamacy. But, I am only talking about a 5% to 10% improvement overall. And sometimes I would take twice or triple the dose he had me on. But then it faded as time went on. Just like an antibodie thing was happening. That has happened with hcg and test cream as well, I always got a slight bump up then it fades.
You are a mess on so many levels … 6 out of 2000 40%, try 0.003% lol
I’m a mess? If you say so sir. Almost everyone who tested for it on this board has tested positive thyroid antibodies… That’s more then a coincidence. If youre too stupid to realize that then youre a lost cause. Good luck with the dht antibodies though lol…
Whatever toady, lets keep this thread on track.
There might be a slightly higher incidence of (subclinical?) hypothyroidism on the forum. Some people also have hypothyroid-like symptoms, I know i do.
Maybe this shows a predisposition towards autoimmune endocrine diseases.
If you can have antibodies against the Thyroid Peroxidase enzyme why not also the 5aR2 enzyme?
It would also be good to see the results of any serum antibodies against the actual Thyroid hormones T3 and T4 too.
Oscar can you make a list of possible anti bodies tests. Once that list is complete than every body go for these tests. Maybe we can find some clue there.
I dont think the tests we need are commercially available.
On a side note i have been tested for hashimotos and am negative.
This is an auto immune theory that has not been ruled out. Specific tests are needed here, not your everyday auto-immune tests. Until the actual cause of pfs is found or people take these specific tests it cannot be ruled out.
This is one of the most logical theories on the forum.
Anyone every try or been on Enbrel since having PFS? Its suppose to be an autoimmune suppressant, which could help us.
Or Flutamide and DHT!
Lets imagine we have developed antibodies against 5a-Reductase as a result of using Finasteride. The two most similar diseases would be Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and autoimmune Addison’s disease, because they also involve antibodies directed against an enzyme (no need to re-write any medical textbooks - this type of disease can already exist!).
Unforunately steroids are not the cure to either of these. In fact Addison’s leads to low levels of natural cortiscosteriods so regular HC or even dexamethasone is taken to manage the disease. Other more powerful Immunosuppressants and Immunomodulators are available ( see; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunosuppressive_drug ) and I agree, maybe this will be what we need. Diagnosis first though!
I wonder what our vitamin d levels were like pre fin after reading this :
Sunlight and vitamin D for bone health and prevention of autoimmune diseases, cancers, and cardiovascular disease
ajcn.org/content/80/6/1678S.long
A deficiency here could have made us more prone to an auto immune condition.
Seems like anything that is benificial is immunosuppressive, alcohol, marijuana, ghb, smoking, sleep deprivation, cortisol, high stress, fasting and so on.
The question for me in regards to this thread is, is the condition caused by rebounding dht, 5ar2 or is it caused by the deprivation of the immunosuppressive neuro steroid allopregnenalone.
Bump.
Anyone seen an immunologist yet? This seems to be the best theories to date to explain the erratic symptons of PFS.
why do you think about anti 5 AR anti bodies, when many have not responded to DHT directly?
If your body is treating 5alpha-reductase as an auto antigen it may not matter what your testosterone levels are like.
As I understand it, antibodies directed against 5alpha-reductase(s) will not inhibit the conversion of T to DHT, but will attack the parts of the body where it is located.
In fact adding T or DHT will increase the expression of 5alpha-reductase which may be why some people get no response, a temporary response or even a negative response when supplementing with androgens.
I havent seen an immunologist or other specialist about this yet, im still working on it.
I am hoping to get a referral in the next couple weeks.
Have you contacted any companies which are dealing in this bussiness.
what about Autoimmune anti-androgen-receptor antibodies? To me this looks more applicable to us. Anyway here is a link which I am reading.
pnas.org/content/82/24/8345.full.pdf
it says
Immunoprecipitation of Radioactive Steroid-Receptor Complexes.
Human blood serum was obtained from clinical
laboratories in The University of Chicago Hospitals.
so we should contact The University of Chicago Hospitals. Maybe maybe they can help us to find 5 AR or DHT anti bodies tests.