Testerone/Nandolone deconate - feeling normal after 6 yrs

I am 37 yrs old and attended an endocrinologist at Edinburgh royal infirmary for over a year. I took Finasteride for 2yrs - to great effect hairwise, but it has completely castrated me sexually - to the extent of rather than being attracted to someone I was repulsed by the idea. I am an RN and a microbiologist. My main symptoms - On first taking finasteride - testicular pain and massive testicular shrinkage, complete loss of sex drive, no morning erections and almost impossible to ejaculate ( maybe if a spare hour or two came along!). Emotionally I couldn’t feel anything - no happyness, excitement - nothing. My friends said I was like a vulcan.

I was given tamoxifen, clomophine citrate and hcg. Tamoxifen had some effect, but I kept developing respiratory infections while I was taking it and had to stop. I was given a testicular ultra sound - it showed some micro calcium deposits - the urologist commented that it could be evidence of shrinkage ( my endrocrinologist commented that my testicles were within normal range for an adult male, he wouldn’t listen to me telling him they had shrunk massivly from my normal) No other treatment had any effect although HcG did recover some testicular size. To make matters worse it was clear that the endocrinologist did not believe my symptoms- he was reluctant to give me testosterone replacemnet therapy (My testosterone levels were in the lower third of normal, estrogen was normal,other hormones were normal too). I eventually got tired of his patronising attitude and discharged myself from his care after he said it " I think you’re needing to put this part of your life behind you and start again, theres nothing wrong with your hormones!"

I took matters into my own hands after that and obtained testosterone ethanate off the internet - ( i am an experienced Nurse and previous to that was a microbiologist with alot of biochemistry in my background). I tried 200 mg every week for 12 weeks along with a 500 iu of hcg every week. There was little to no effect on my sex drive. I was really losing hope but I was reading articles on this forum and other finasteride websites that stated that current thinking was that the syndrome may not be due to testosterone or estrogen but other hormones that are connected to the pathway. One hormone mentioned was progestin which gave me the idea to try Nandrolone. I tried testosterone ethanate 200mg( I had to take this as nandrolone stops the bodys natural production of testosterone after doses of about 100mg so must be included) and 200 mg of Nandrolone deconate. After 3 to 4 weeks I woke with an erection, infact I was waking at night because I kept getting them, my sex drive went through the roof and I was able to have sex and recognise what was attractive again after 6 yrs of never having sexual contact. I stayed on nandrolone for 16 weeks. I then stoppped, and hoped that maybe completely shutting my HPTA axis and restarting it would recover my own sex drive without drugs. I stopped for 4 months and took post cyle therapy drugs (Clomid and hcg) - 3 weeks after stopping nandrolone I went back to being dead from the waist down. I gave it another 3 months before starting back on an ongoing dose.

I monitor my blood pressure and my cholesterol, my doctor is aware and will re-refer me back to an endocrinologist again but I will not go back to the one who was responsible for my care previously. To date I have been taking testosterone/nandrolone at 200mg a week and have a stable sex drive and I have a partner for the first time in yrs. My mood is great and feel alive again.
I realise that in many countries these drugs are illegal and I’m not advovating there use, its a personal choice/risk for me which to date has paid off

  1. Where are you from (country)?

  2. How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)

  3. What is your current age, height, weight?

  4. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?

  5. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?

  6. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?

  7. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?

  8. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?

  9. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?

  10. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?

  11. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?

  12. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?

  13. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?

  14. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[x ] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[x ] Erectile Dysfunction
Complete Impotence
[x ] Loss of Morning Erections
[x ] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[x ] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
[x ] Reduced Ejaculate
[x ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[x ] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[x ] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Confusion
[x ] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[x ] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[x ] Slurring of Speech
[x ] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ x] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[ x] Testicular Pain
[x ] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[x ] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
[x ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
Prostate pain
[x ] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Increased hair loss
Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug? Tamoxifen, Clomid, HcG

  2. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)? Hormonally within normal limits for all test - testosterone is in lower third but fluctates alot

  3. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

  4. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

3 Likes

Do you have any hormone profiles available? Most specifically, have you had progestin levels checked? If so how was this tested? As someone with an extensive medical background compared to other members of this forum, I’d like to know what your thoughts are on Nandrolone and why it has helped you as much as it has.

You also said you feel normal for the first time in six years, but your profile says you started finasteride in 2008. Had you used finasteride before 2008 as well?

Interesting story and I’m glad you have found a drug combination that’s actually helping you out. Give us more details please!

strange. what do you say about this viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3578&p=21318&hilit=nandrolone#p21318

Are you using any hcg intermittently to jump start endogenous testosterone production? Any estrogen related side effects so far? And lastly, what do you think the long term side effects are?

I am a bit confused. If you suspected that high progesterone was a possible cause of your symptoms, then why would you take a progestin steroid that raises your progesterone even higher and is known to cause a novel form of sexual dysfunction called Deca Dick ? The majority of of guys who have had their progesterone levels checked here had them come back highish.

daveyec82:

I did have my hormone levels checked, all were within normal limits - I don’t know about progestin levels, I don’t think they were ever discussed with me. I don’t know the answer as to why nandrolone has helped - I’ve read theories that its other hormones connected to the HPTA axis that may be low or affected in some way that causes the syndrome rather than specifically testostrone or estrogen as mine where within noraml limits - thats about all I can remember from the results i was given. I don’t know if nandrolone or one of its metabolites plugs a hole in what ever I am lacking, whether thats a neurotransmitter or some other hormone. Unfortunately I got sick of my patronising endocrinlogist who thought I was some sort of nutter and didn’t believe me so I am going it alone at the moment. My doc monitors me and is trying to get me refered to another endocrinlogist. Your right about the 2008 thing, I’ve change it on my profile, it was definately 2006 I started as i had just qualified as a nurse, sometimes had to think when it all started. 2008 was when I came off finasteride - I accepted the low libido when i was on it, I was just out a 10yr relationship so wasn’t bothered with low libido.

spstriken:

The doses used are alot higher than mine, and is more a dose that a bodybuilder would use to bulk up. He is taking twice the amount I have, be he seems to be reaping the same benefits. Like everything else the higher the dose of a drug the more likely you are to experience side effects. I am fortunate in that I dont get problems from high estrogen ( High prolactin from what I remember can also be tackled by stopping high estrogen. The dose of nandrolone is quite high as is the testosterone)

Markuss

I use HcG to prevent my tesiticles from shutting down completely and shrinking to the size of peanuts. If I remember rightly it mimics LH which is responcible for maintaing sperm production. People to TRT are given it to stop shrinkage. I have had no estrogen side effects other than mild water retention which I admittedly quite like! as it gives me a fuller appearance

Moonman 1

I didn’t suspect high progesterone, I suspected low progesterone as from what Ive read low progesterone is equally devastating to a mans sex drive as high. I had nothing to lose as my sex drive as non existant, Deca dick is caused because deca on its own shuts down natural testosterone production. If testosterone is included in the nandrolone mix it subsitutes for what the body stops producing - you dont get deca dick if you include testostrone - many inexperience bodybuilders make that mistake. as for others having high progesterone - Its a syndrome so many things come together to produce the condition - maybe theres not one single cause ? I don’t have an abnormal hormone profile, its the hardiest part for me and the reason many doctors don’t believe the condition exists, many of us don’t have obvious hormone imbalances…

In response to “why deca?” - I was trying to figure out why tamoxifen had some effect but clomid had absolutely none. I read an articule on a bodybuilding site that said tamoxifen increased expression of either the prolactin or progesterone recepter, clomid didn’t have this effect. Tamoxifen seems to make me drop my white cell count otherwise I think I may have worked. It was the link between the progestin receptor and possible low hormones in the progestin pathway that made me wonder if Nandrolone (DEca) would have any effect.

Is there any particular reason you suspected that? Progesterone is an easy lab to get tested for. The majority who have tested it here have had it come back mid-high to high. This is because 5ar is needed to turn Prog. into the neurosteroid allopreg… So finasteride back up/floods progesterone levels.

Deca-Dick is caused by high prog. levels not shutdown of testis. This is why guys with Deca-Dick need Anti-Progestins to recover and do not recover from conventional PCT.

Either way, I’m happy you recovered and am jealous :slight_smile:

1 Like

I’m not going to claim to know alot about deca dick -Ive never experienced it: But from steroids.com:

Deca Durabolin Side Effects
Now for the worst news: Deca Durabolin is a progestin (as are all nandrolones), unfortunately; it happens to stimulate the progesterone receptor 20% as well as progesterone itself (3), and this opens the door for many possible unwanted side effects (water retention, acne, etc…). It must be noted that most of those are rare, though. This also may be the major reason that Deca is such a suppressive drug when it comes to your natural testosterone levels. We can see from the chart below that a simgle measly 100mg injection of Deca Durabolin caused a total (100%) reduction of natural testosterone levels, and it took roughly a month to return those testosterone levels to baseline! All from 100mgs of Deca!

Deca Durabolin

The moral of this story? Always use Testosterone with your Deca Durabolin! I suggest 200mgs, minimum, to avoid impotence and sexual dysfunction. For an anabolic effect from that Testosterone, I recommend at least double that, with an equal amount of Deca Durabolin (minimum). Id also recommend taking an anti-progesteronic drug with Deca Durabolin (or at least having it on hand): Cabergoline and Bromocriptine are both good choices

My understanding is that the high progesterone is very suppressive to natural testosterone production and its the feedback that shut down testosterone production -(I’m not an endocrinlogist,) hence the reason testosterone has to be included. I know alot of bodybuilders, I don’t know any that have experienced deca dick except those that didn’t include a decent amount of testosterone in with their injection.

The reason I suspected low progestin was because the endocrinologist couldn’t understand why tamoxifen worked but clomid didn’t, the only difference I found out was that tamoxifen increased progestrin receptor expression, which made me think maybe Ive low progestin. Unfortunatly I can’t just order blood tests because I feel ike it, the NHS in the uk doesn’t allow for that, I’m stuck with what my endocrinologist ordered for me. The tests werent extensive- just the main hormones from what I seen.

I’d like to say I done extensive research but I didn’t as everytime I read what people were saying on the forums I got depressed and lost interest. I never thought Id get any sort of recovery. I can only say what worked for me. But as Ive said my hormone profiles weren’t massivly out of range as some on here are experiencing, I don’t know if this would work for them or not.

Interesting. Thanks for the report. If I can ever get a hold of it, I would have no issues testing it out. Not like it could really hurt my sexual function too much worse that it already is…

mark.r.d
you said you have water retension. May I ask what parts of the body you have water retension and what do you do to reduce it. Do you have any negative sides from water retension?

Sounds good.

Do you think low testosterone and normal estrogen is normal. Wouldnt measuring estrogen ; testosterone ratio be more important.

Am I write in saying you are on 200mg decca and 200mg test per week. Seems like a hell of a lot.

How much HCG?

How many weeks have you been on this? Do you plan on loweing your dose to a more reasonable dose to ensure sides do not occur? Pehaps 70 mg of each?

I tried some trenbolone and it hurt my kidney so i stopped I also tried equopse but did not feel too good. Never tried decca. But would be great if you could keep this up. Any more info about the testicular ultrasound? I have a lump too? And have been looking into estrogen producing leydig cell tumors which cause the same sides as what we see here.

Please keep us up to date here. Thanks

Since posting I have reduced the dose, so far I am on 100 mg of nandrolone and 100 mg of testosterone a week. I still have all the benefits so far but this is only week two of the reduced dose - I’ve been nervous about reducing as I’m worried ill lose the effect again, but i suppose I only have to up the dose if it that does happen. I will keep reducing until i feel no effect anymore. My resting heart rate was elevated on the 200 mg dose of deca-hence the incentive for reducing the dose, my resting heart rate is back to 55bpm ( it was 70 when I was on the 200 mg dose, my normal is the mid 50’s. I take 500 iu of Hcg a week, I found the Swale protocol for HcG usage in testosterone replacement and have stuck fairly close to it. The most difficult part is getting HcG, testosterone and deca are easy but there seems to be alot of fake HcG. I’m still waiting for a re-refereal to an endocrinologist, think I need to get onto my doc again - he will not supply anything without guidance from endocrinology.

To answer the previous question about water retention - I never had encough for it to bother me, it just gave me a fuller apperance, I now don’t have any at all on the reducted dose.

Ive been on Testosterone/nandrolone since January this year, I took a break for a few months to see if my own hormones would kick in - but they didn’t so remained on a maintaince dose. That is now 100mg of each. I work in cardiology so keep an eye on my BP, ecg. heart rate etc, I have low cholesterol to start with ( 3.2 LDL). So far no problems

Very interesting. I was scared from what they say about decca dick so stuck to the other steroiods.

How are your muscles these days?

I really wonder what the effect is. I remember deca is slow to convert to E2. So perhaops you have shifted the the androgen / estrogen ratio back to somewhat normal. Lots of people here report low free test and normal estrogen after taking fin.

Great to hear your doing well and seems that you are stable since you have been taking it so long. I wish I tried when I had access to it.

Does the nandrolone treatment have any effect on your genital numbness?

This is very interesting. So testosterone alone did not do much for your erections/libido but when you added in deca you feel normal again? I am on TRT with HCG and AI but have not noticed much improvement sexually. I have never tried deca but will now after reading this. If you don’t mind, what is your source for deca?

I will add my note here - I have some deca I have both deconate and PhenalProp I injected some phenal prop with test but i frlt pain in the back - liver or kidney within hours. The same happened with some trenboolone - I did not continue. Did not notice much from one shot. But may try the deconate some time. It would be good if others could try this too to see what happens.

Anyone else have the means to test out this combination?

i may be trying this combination soon. I will get back to you.