PSSD can also be physically quite complicated, I have physical problems too. I get literally sick from excersise, also lost all my muscle in a timespan of 2 weeks, gyno etc. When I look at the people I talk to with PSSD, often the more ‘‘severe’’ cases have physical symptoms too. I would say that when u recover fully from ur PSSD/PFS due to a healthy diet and excersise, it wasn’t very severe to begin with. But that’s just my opinion, i have no proof in this whatsoever, just my own logic thinking. I am totally not saying these stories are fake btw.
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I did see in multiple recoveries reocurring factor being a big focus on healthy diet and exercise, so my own logic tells me that it does play a role. Unfortunatelly these terms did become a cliche, sometimes even fun vanilla terms and are often a target for making others look like they out of boredom by the way have PSSD or PFS, not even noticable, mild funny cases. It is not a measurement tool and neither, and this important to differentiate, it is not the same to exercise every single day for 3 hours opposed to go for a short couple minutes cardio run 2x times per week. Similarly it applies to healthy diet. Not to mention consistency and time span following these. It has became this general term without differentiation and that makes things look as the same thing - it is not. But nevertheless, generally speaking, my opinion - minor cases fully curing by very good thoughtout lifestyle super approach? Yes possibly, they have a good shot moving very far if not even curing by this itself. Normal case curing by this alone? May be much much tougher to recover by this alone, this alone may not be suffcient enough, but my logic also tells me it does sure positively contribute, it may not cure by itself but it does increase chances after long long flawless superhealth focus and these people often do a lot and much more in addition to this approach, for example good thoughtout supplements may also contribute as well so when combined with also other factors then - yes, specific flawless maximum health lifestyle does sure contribute, it is a piece of the pie in the recovery. Severe cases, well, if someone is unable to even execise at all, not even light exercise, then it is a problem. I think that then at least well thoughout eating and drinking habits and lifestyle in general still shouldnt be neglected. As You can see Oseph, and not only him alone, has made spectacular turnaround for even his physical symptoms by his diet approach. It doesnt automatically mean it will be for everybody, but my logic tells me lifestyle dietary specific good plans increase the chances in the positive spectrum, not the negative. This doesnt put him in the Vanilla box as You can see by his symptoms he resolved and the length of his condition. So, my message to everybody in general is to be a little more respectful and thoughtful as well as less judgemental when it comes to the generalised terms “exercise” and “healthy diet” and to the suffering of people that stand behind them
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Hey I totally agree that excersise and diet should not be neglected. And for the milder cases it can probably do a lot. But that’s also my point. I think if u get cured by excersise and diet, ur problem, in my idea, no proof, was more that of a mild one. Because with severe PFS/PSSD u mostly can’t even do excersise. And it’s great u can heal through this, I am not saying u don’t have the syndrome etc. But I know for the more severe u can forget healing urself through this. Diet and excersise are known to not cure the fullblown syndrome, that has been proven over and over again, it’s the first thing people do and try, including myself. Ofcourse u have people who did heal with it, but that’s also pointing towards the thing u were doing at that time while recovering. If you are recovering naturally, and doing a diet at that time, people tend to point at that diet as the reason. But honoustly most are all doing a diet all the time, so u could always point towards that as the reason. Still u can get benefits from it, it’s a good thing to try diet and excersise. Btw that u see it’s a reocurring facter in recovery stories that people focus on healthy diet and excersise, is quite logic. U could say those people had a mindset to cure themselves, so that also included those things, and as I said before, almost everyone follows some form of diet here. But I just know that as soon as someone is able to, what they often say, do excersise, I know we have a disease of a different severity. I, and many others, would never be able to pull this off physically. And you are btw saying they are displayed as mild funny cases, I don’t say that. I just say I get the idea people who for example focus a lot on the sexual sides, like, I have low libido after finasteride, and do excersise and a good diet, and feel normal again, are totally not comparable with people who can’t get out of bed anymore due to the syndrome. The two should not be compared, it’s almost a different disease with different rules (not really but you get me).
Its not about me, I was not talking about me in specific neither I said I am curing because of exercise and lifestyle alone. I refer to these as in my opinion important contributing factors in overall picture, not necessarily cure itself (for milder cases these alone well thoughtout and implied intense and longterm enough are a good chance alone possibly). May not clearly work by itself alone, may not be dramatically noticable - It simply increases ones chances. And its also not accurate in my opinion to put sufferers in a box of natural recovery when someone has this syndrome for many many many years and when he from some point radically changes certain things in his life and after that point he slowly starts moving forward. And like I also said, there a big differences in exercises alone, its not the same to for 3 months go for a brief cardio 2x times per week or visit gym couple times weekly for an hour compared to for example when someone dedicates to physical aspect multiple hours every single day for over year even couple years this high intense, similar applies to “healthy diet” - it may have hundrets of factors alone. So like You see there are differences in severities, there are differences in complexity of things behind terms “exercise” and same, probably even much more for “healthy diet”. Its easy to wrap it all in one box and make measurements based on that - but its impossible and inaccurate to do so, as well as its easy to throw all in “natural recovery” box. Success? Either You are mild case or natural recovery. Its not like that in reality. And what bothers me and where it becomes a problem is when someone who could potentionally do a lot better after longterm following perfect specific high intensity lifestyle - he simply goes - bah, no, there is not a point in doing this, xyz did try, its not a cure, its only for mildies. This leads to many people that would benefit, after a truly long time and right intense method, longterm, to do nothing or to not give this dedication intense and long enough time, regardless of not seeing benefits after just few months. So they end up either doing nothing or often only trying for few months regular stuff and saying, hey I tried its pointless. I believe reaping results comes after much longer and it may be just a slight boost that only when combined with the right multiple other things like the right multi-aspect supplement approach results in true improving-reversing, after longterm and again with the right intense tools. So to wrap this up, I believe it is a big factor in increasing ones changes - it doesnt make it necessarily cure. If You want a pizza, You should have tomato sauce, flour, ham, cheese and a good oven to make one. And a good recipe! Make a good pizza without a tomato sauce - unlikely. Also, tomato sauce alone doesnt make a pizza. Have a perfect tomato sauce and You increase the chances of pizza tasting great. Have all the good ingredients, but if You cook it for 3 minutes the whole pizza would taste like shit. I hope this makes things more clear of what I mean. But, if someone is truly physically unable, that is a different story and from the start I said I am not referring to such cases, I am myself not physically impaired by this syndrome but this neither make one a mild case. I am a longterm sufferer and truly objectivelly a “normal” case, not a mild one, considering all my symptoms, severity, duration and rigidity. Some of my aspects are more in severe spectrum, some in “normal” and some in “mild” (ED aspect)
What if you would do a waterfast? And I don’t mean like the one you do for 10 days or so but like a fast where you really push it to the limit of almost dying. Would that be a reset to your body? I’m starting a waterfast tomorrow where I’ll try to do it and also limit the waterintake.
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Do a waterfast if You decided, it may help Your condition, but just do not push Your limits with waterfasting to maximum, it may very well have negative consequences on Your health afterwards and SEVERLY deplete You in vitamins and life important minerals even more than You are left after Antidepressants/Isotretinion/Finasteride. Actually, You may even realistically risk Your life by pushing limits too much. Fasting is interesting but it wouldnt necessarily do miracles just because You are pushing limits. Trust me on this one, be safe, I did push my limits with waterfast and ended with failing kidneys and urinating blood
So what do you propose I do… I rlly don’t know what to do anymore.
Hey, go for that waterfasting buddy if You are already decided to do so, it MAY help, dont get me wrong. Just dont push limits. I like waterfasting, I believe waterfasting is good and there are lot of scientific clues behind it too, but just go for a reasonable duration and follow every single rule for waterfasting - safety first everyone
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This is an alarming amount of time to be recommending people fast for. 20 days and the idea that a person might push themselves beyond that!?
Is there any concrete, replicable evidence that an extreme fast like that is helpful? I have seen fasting recommended many more times than I’ve seen people say “I fasted and it helped” where’s the evidence from Post Drug Syndrome patients that this is a good thing to do?
The amount of crazy ideas I’m seeing here on a daily basis at the moment makes me wonder if we’re living through a month long full moon or something.
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It was not a recommendation, just a fast reply expressing my opinion rough estimate maximum limit based on my experience. I did push myself more beyond, I now know it was obiously crazy and even more a desperate step, but I am the last person to recommend to others something dangerous and it wasnt meant that way. Anyway, You are right, my mistake, it was a quick response not thought through. If someone already decided to do a waterfast, its better to stay within even much safer duration limits opposed to what I said in previous post and pay very close attention to all body signals all the time. Eventually its probably better to go for a safer options in general than waterfasting, and if You do, go for couple days to stay on the more safe side of it
Hey man, I wasn’t talking about you in particulair. Reading back it looked like this but with ‘‘u’’ i meant people in general with this condition. I think we agree in most ways. I just don’t like the excersise/diet will heal you attitude. But as u said, that’s also not what u say.
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I didnt get the part about limited water intake - I only now noticed. I dont think thats a good idea, go for the generally recommended amounts, dont experiment with new methods, You need enough of that water. You need that water, also those water nutrients and as well enough of that water to keep flushing the waste from that burned fat. Also, I hope You do not go with the risky demineralized/destilled water option - that is a very dangerous one, I do not recommend. And like I said, stay within only reasonable durations for any possible benefits from it, otherwise You mess Youself more up and You dont want to deal with another serious health problem afterwards on top of everything. Do not expect any major “reset” by pushing limits, I didnt see it happened for me and neither for others, opposite, pushing any limits in waterfasting is counterproductive, trust me, I know what I am saying. If there are any possible benefits it is only as long as You stay safe and dont do it for longer than it is generally common and referred as really safe. And also, I assume You are packing decent surplus body weight on You that will be safe to lose - otherwise dont do a waterfast at all - it would be extremely dangerous and would do only a pure damage in that case
That’s exactly were I’m at now I’m 8 months into this crisis and I literally wake up exhausted and I’m told I’m being lazy.
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Diet means what you’re eating. Eating only McDonald is actually a diet.
After I crashed, I was unable to stand for a long period of time and couldn’t climb two flights of stairs. I had all the typical neuro and sexual sides, couldn’t sleep at all and obviously, I could not have exercised. I was spending my days being unproductive and miserable, dizzy and brain fogged, watching youtube although too much was making feel bad, and the rest of the time I was just sitting there, unable to do things, and wondering what to do with my time.
I have more to say on the subject of diet and exercise but first, I’ll have to say that I believe everything around us, what we have, our work, our relationships, the state of our body, is in great part a reflection of what’s in our mind. In my opinion, the first thing to change is the mind. Mild, medium, severe cases, doesn’t matter. Some people recover from terminal cancer and doctors have seen things that defy their belief and they use the term “miracle”.
We can all choose what we believe in. You believe you can get over this, it will influence your choices and your actions and your chances of doing it will be better. You believe there’s nothing you can do, well, same thing but the other way around.
Now to diet, fasting and exercise. I believe a healthy diet is fine, as in “not too bad”, but I just thing it limits itself to not adding too much problems to the disease. A “healthy diet” will still have carbs, plants that affect your hormones and create inflammation. I believe what helps the most is either a purely carnivore diet with extra fat, or a carnivore diet with some leafy greens in limited quantities, extra fat and a few selected plants like coconut cream or MCT oil, maybe black coffee in the morning or not.
That’s the first step. A diet like this will have some of the effects of fasting in that the body will burn all it’s carbs reserves in 2-3 days, will start to transform fat into B-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB) and Acetoacetate, will not have any insulin spikes, and by eliminating most or all plant food, inflammation will be greatly reduced all over the body.
It is renowned to give great energy and mind clarity to any healthy person who does it, and as a sick person, it did so to me as well. What it will not do as compared to fasting is autophagy and cleaning out damaged inefficient cells and garbage DNA segments left in the cells (they can amount to up to 20 times the size of the DNA itself).
The carnivore or keto/carnivore diet and fasting will create BHB which will lower your Glutamate, raise your GABA, prevent Cortisol spikes and aside for the superior energy source it provides and the benefits of having your Mitochondrias active instead of just the cells burning carbs, there are indication that BHB may at least prevent some types of epigenetic damage to the DNA and maybe even revert some of the damage done already. This is all at the edge of science as it is, more will be exposed in the following months and years.
I’ve been on a carnivore diet with extra fat and very limited plants for over 13 months. For all that period of time, my body has been producing BHB in a much larger quantity than any exogenous BHB you could take. I may be getting 5 times the BHB I would get from the maximum exogenous BHB I could safely take.
I have been fasting for 72 hours as well and will fast again, but as you can see, no amount of fasting will give me as much BHB as I’ve been getting from 13 months of this particular diet.
There’s a 20 years sick guy on this forum, I can’t remember his name or where I read that, but he reported surprising results from taking BHB salt pills. The results weren’t great in amplitude, but surprising in that nothing else had given any results for years.
It’s anecdotal, just as my story is, but that’s not a reason the dismiss the possibility that BHB is beneficial.
As for exercise, everything in its time. We need energy to do exercise. I started exercising 4 months in the diet and yes, I’m in greater physical shape at 51 than I’ve ever been in my life. All of a sudden, I realize I could be fit and have a clear mind for the next 40 years instead of getting old at 60/65.
Now it’s up to you to choose what you believe and to act according to your beliefs. It’s the most fundamental right of a human being. I respect your choices.
As for mild, medium or severe cases, I don’t care how we call things. Things are the way they are no matter what we call them. And anyone can consider me as he wishes, so is his freedom and it changes nothing to reality.
On this, I wish you all the best and I especially wish you believe something can be done.
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Please share your results im interested in waterfast.
Well, to be honest, I didn’t see any immediate results. I took care of eating no carbs at all 3 days prior to the fast so I wouldn’t get carbs craving while fasting and I continued to do weight lifting and cardio during the fast, although lighter and less intense. The purpose of exercising during a fast is to block the proteins in the muscle and not “eat up” your muscles. I burned fat all along, stayed leveled in energy. The first 2 days I felt hungry but not overly so. More just like empty stomach. The third day was easy and I though I could go on a few days but considering it was my first fast, I stopped at 72 hours.
Insomnia got better. It’s the only symptom I have left so it’s the only thing I can compare. However, 2 months later, I’m still struggling with it. So I’m preparing to fast again. Maybe this weekend.
There is one person in this forum that proclaims complete recovery (private msg) from BHB.
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Man I have started carnivore diet, 25% protein, 75% fat, the rest in gelatin. Do you consider yourself out of pfs?
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Please, understand all my recent posts as my observations and experience, opinion exchange, not facts that are flawlessly right. Be it posts about exercise, healthy diet or some quick replies about waterfasting. Because, like with everything in this disease, You simply cannot take things for granted just because something works if even for a majority of others - it doesnt mean the same would automatically apply for You, it may, as well as it may not. I learned this lesson many times over and over - lots of times the hard way. The crap is just overcomplicated in its nature. But at the same time - do not for a second think there is nothing out there now or just around the corner of near future that will help - its very important to never lose hope - it is something that truly helps and has guided me to keep going and keep fighting over the years - this one is bulletproof. Trust me, there IS a light at the end of this dark tunnel, I am proud to see we are all a strong team that moves forward, dont worry, just wait for Your moment and keep fighting until that time will come, there is a point in the future when this will all be just a bad dream from the past that made You 100x times stronger and capable to appreciate life like only very few people on this planet will ever be able to
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Joining you on the 3 day fast beginning tommorow evening.
I plan doing a 5 day and a 10 day fast later on. If I can manage that, I would try to do a 20 day fast at the end of the year…
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