Soy discussion (Varility Paradox topic)

Therapeutic Efforts
#21
  1. Yes. Pure soy protein isolate.
  2. 35g every day.
  3. 3 months.
  4. I was also in a small calorie deficit from march til june 2013 to get in shape.
#22

Didn’t you also say that TRT, Arimidex, licorice root extract, and now Soy - all caused you to crash? How many crashes have you had man?

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#23

Thats correct.

My first crash was from soy. But not really a crash overnight, my libido just faded over 2 weeks and stayed at 10-20% for years.

Then december 2015 I crashed from licorice and my pfs got more severe, more symptoms.

Crashed another time june 2016 when I took milk thistle.

Then 3 months later recovered to 70% thanks to progesterone, tribulus and tomato juice cycles lol.

December 2017 I was doing GREAT while on TRT. Had sex twice every day. Made the mistake and started arimidex. Crashed a bit, now only sex once every day.

Still havent recovered my pre arimidex libido baseline.

#24

What Test did you take and what was the dose ?

#25

How much did you eat? Could you tell us which symptoms you had and which you got afterwards?

#26

Test Cypionate 200mg per week from 10/2017 til 12/2017.

Increased to 300mg/week while I started arimidex. This combination screwed my receptors again.

I even expirimented with 500mg/week this summer and my libido got even worse.

Now I’m at 100mg/week with no arimidex and libido is better again. Hope I can recover to my sex twice a day baseline within the next year.

#27

I took a huge dose. Probably 3g extract for a week. Goal was to raise my cortisol cause I had severe adrenal fatigue at that time.

Before licorice I only had low libido and lower sensivity. 1-2 weeks after I stopped licorice my libido crashed totally and developed anhedonia, terrible orgasm, muscle loss and beard loss.

And milk thistle gave me severe PFS 6 months later including genital shrinkage. That was my lowest point.

#28

Thanks for the reply, Invictus. I didn’t even realise people took the extract as a treatment. I thought you meant you had been eating some liquorice sweets.

Of the things you’ve listed there, how many have improved?

#29

So do you find that low dose test seemed to help more? How come you added the anti estrogen (other people report low test injections help also)

#30

Well like I wrote at one point I recovered to 70%. My libido had the biggest improvement. From not masturbating for 4 weeks (august 2016, my lowest point) to twice every single day (november 2017).

Anhedonia got way better. But crashed this year when I took way too much Testosterone. Now slowly recovering (maybe).

Genital shrinkage, Muscle and beard never got better. Sensivity fluctuates.

#31

I thought that maybe I could get even stronger libido (like normal guys on steroids, so 3-4 times sex every day lol).

#32

I’m sorry to hear that man. I hope you’re on a path to recovery.

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#33

Thanks for the heads up @skorpio88, question - did it have any effect on your libido? Did you notice sexual thoughts come back into play? Motivation? Or we’re they all physical symptoms?

I’ve heard conflicting reports on soy, some say to avoid it like the plague, that it makes for a temporary improvement but can makes things worse over the long haul. I’ve also heard it touted as miracle drug.

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#34

yeah its really odd, also there was a ton of information that I guess is lost now. Im just curious what happened…

@Scott.H

I didnt experience any improvement in my libido, although many other people who tried using soy flour/tofu claimed that they experienced improvements in their libido. The majority of my improvements from soy were physical symptoms

This is a pretty good point that I think needs to be addressed. Here is my stance on it, I think that soy is extremely misunderstood and under-utilized in the PFS community. I honestly think that almost every guy with PFS could benefit from experimenting with soy. Im quite surprised that nobody on propeciahelp was aware of my experiments with soy on solvepfs.com, but I guess I just overestimated the degree of cross-fertilization between the two forums. That being said, I am aware of some people experiencing negative effects but usually there are other mitigating factors involved. I think that if people take very conservative doses of soy to figure out how their body reacts it it then its a pretty safe supplement to use. The best way to experiment using soy is with tofu (because it is less concentrated and hence less strong than soy flour), or by using relatively small doses of soy flour, like just a teaspoon of it.

If anybody has any posts discussing negative side effects caused by soy then please send me the links to them so I can analyze them.

I also want to add that I dont use soy flour by itself, and I havent used soy flour by itself for a long time. Typically I try combining soy flour with other supplements to see if there is a synergistic effect or not. One of the most reliable combinations that I have used is soy flour and quercetin, but I have also found that soy flour, quercetin and turmeric is a powerful combination as well. My point is, soy is extremely versatile and useful. I would not be surprised if soy ended up being a key component to somehow curing or at least being a functional treatment for PFS.

#35

Here is what I think:

  1. I dont know how big of a difference there is between soy flour and pure soy protein isolate in terms of isoflavone content. Its entirely possible however that pure soy protein isolate may have a significantly higher concentration of isoflavones compared to soy

  2. Regardless, I know that pure soy protein isolate does contain a reasonable amount of isoflavones, and 35 grams is a relatively large dose (I know this is normal for protein powder, but if we consider that pure soy protein isolate is more than just protein, IE it also has phytochemical effects on the body, then 35 grams becomes a pretty significant dosage). For comparison, when I take soy flour I usually take a slight heaping tablespoon of it, which is roughly equivalent to about 20 grams

  3. You took 35 grams of it everyday for three months which is a massive amount of soy product to be taking daily. For comparison, when I do a soy flour cycle, it usually only lasts about 2-3 weeks tops and then I take a break from it

IMO I think that soy is relatively safe, but it is possible to crash from it if you use large amounts of it for a long period of time.

#36

Did it help libido ? And by cycle it, do you feel effects when “off” cycle ?

#37

No, it didnt help my libido. Although other people who have tried experimenting with soy claimed that it improved their libido

My benefits from soy were permanent, so yes, they lasted even after I stopped taking soy

#38

So does that mean your libido is still damaged or was it never that bad ?

#39

Yes, my libido is still damaged. My libido problems go beyond an issue with my androgens/androgen receptors and most likely are due to problems with my neurotransmitters

#40

Fuck my life lmao … still manage sex If you don’t mind me asking ?