Soy discussion (Varility Paradox topic)

Therapeutic Efforts
#96

You are missing the point. Many (not all, but many) of guys with PFS have altered receptor function/altered hormones. Therefore, what applies to most guys no longer applies to us. That is why for normal guys soy is probably not very good, but paradoxically for PFS guys soy may be helpful for us.

Also to reiterate, the primary issue regarding soy is not estrogen, nor is it productive to get caught up in the whole soy = estrogen debate; while this is true to an extent, what is more important to consider is that soy downregulates the androgen receptors themselves. This in itself is huge, and extremely important. So basically with regards to soy, its not a black and white issue, soy needs to be considered on a couple of different levels because its mechanism through it affects guys with PFS is deeper and potentially more complex than what most people think.

#97

I have two questions for you:

  1. how does beer (a moderate source of xenoestrogens) affect you?

  2. Do you respond to TRT pretty well?

#98

  1. it’s a form of phytoestrogens and there’s actually not that many in beer contrary to what people believe. there is much more in sesame seeds, soy protein, and flax seeds. to answer your question, i’ve recently had 2-3 beers without any adverse effects.

  2. i’ve lost many benefits that are attributable to TRT. i’ve lost libido, erection strength, muscle recovery, i’ve lost the nitric oxide boost, muscle protein synthesis boost, euphoria, skin health, hair health. id day i’ve lost all of its positive benefits and even its side effects such acne i don’t get oily skin, i don’t get high blood pressure. but, if i wasn’t on my 63mg per week, i know id be much worse off. the only benefits i have left are muscle strength (NOT size) and energy.

but please remember I do not have PFS, i believe my issue to be with the estrogen receptor so that will affect different things and leave other things unaffected

#99

Well, I can’t eat grain or soya, I get anxiety, and I don’t trust fish. it’s polluted.
I’m not going to turn vegan, get food allergies, anxiety and end up fucked up and suicidal.

But that shows what we already know: humanity can’t go on the way it does, we’re heading for a wall.
And when we hit it, I’ll have as little pfs symptoms as I can because it’s going to be survival of the fittest.

#100

I understand what you’re saying. It’s good for those who need to downregulate the AR. All the better for them. Experiment and see what works for you. Go slowly and stop at first sign of trouble.

I was just pointing out that for those who do no need to down regulate the AR, like me, not only soy but grain an chicken and eggs can be bad. I’ll stick to beef and kale. I’m doing fine with it.

I’m, currently on an experiment where i’m taking Carnitine to increase AR density, and pine pollen to get extra phyto androgens. Let’s see if I feel better or worst with that.

#101

You mean you had those benefits and then lost them ?

What do you think made you lose those benefits ?

#102

I had every benefit. I felt like jesus christ on earth. Every single benefit is gone.

Because I’ve developed this condition. Now I do not feel my TRT.

Put it this way, I’ve came off TRT before. Had low testosterone during my post cycle therapy, but felt light years better than I do now with mid range testosterone and estrogen.

Ive stated this before, not sure if you have not seen, but I believe that I have and that @lowe2sucks have developed estrogen signaling abnormalities. Analogous to PFS, PSSD, Accutane guys defeloping AR abnormalities. On May 23rd, 2017 I felt my body completely lose something. Meanwhile, the day before I felt great.

#103

Do you have some days better some worse ?

#104

it either stays the same or gets worse

#105

your case is very interesting. One more question, how do you react to zinc? I read in your story that your condition worsens when your estradiol rises, but what about when you reduce your estradiol?

#106

I don’t take zinc but I get my daily RDA through foods.

The other day I slammed two servings of this cereal that totaled to 160% of my daily RDA of zinc and felt fine.

When I used to lower estradiol, I felt fine, now it crashes me a bit and my symtoms get worse simply because I’m lowering my estrogen with such low sensitivity to estrogen. Hope that makes sense

#107

Is there any way to tell if your symptoms are attributed to AR overexpression?

#108

Does anyone know a good Soy Flour brand to use? Also, do I do anything with it or just teaspoon it raw?

#109

I ordered two different kinds off amazon, one was bobs red something. Be prepared it gave me bad stomach issues and diarrhea the first time I took it

#110

do you just take a teaspoon of it raw? Also, do you do night or day time?

#111

yes, you just take it raw. I pop a tablespoon of it in my mouth and wash it down with water. It doesnt taste particularly great but its not an awful taste either

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#112

Wanted to ask if anyone gets worse from eating miso which is rich in equol and genistein, both being potent 5ARi’s among isoflavonoids and multiple times more abundant in miso than in soybeans and tofu. Got cravings for zhajiangmian.after watching a couple videos on youtube.

I was worsened for over a year from taking cacao nibs for a couple of days, so I am guessing I might get worse from soy as well.

FWIW, I remember having had sushi for dinner one time and slept relatively well that night.

#113

Hey, any updates? Sounds lie it was going pretty well for you

#114

I did the soy protocol. I’m fully recovered but I’m not certain it was due to soy flour. It could have reset some of my androgens so I could safely do other protocols.

#115

How long after the soy protocol did you recover? Were you taking any supplements/doing anything else along with it?
Lastly, could you explain how you did the protocol? I think I’d like to go ahead and try it.
Thanks in advance man
@Fxckfin