Yes, I cycled the Beyond-a-Century stuff. Ran for about 4 weeks. Usually 5 days on, 2 days off. Or 6 days on, 1 day off. In my experience, if a hormonal product works, it’ll kick in between 1-2.5 weeks. 4 weeks is more then enough time to give a fair shot.
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll look into ABS. Have you tried their products? Noticed any benefit?
What I mean by cycling is that you take a different herb every day and never in the same 7 day period take the same herb or you will build up a tolerance and that herb will become ineffective. World a.b.s is very expensive but the best IMO. It’s all about the active ingredients and their products have the higest that I have seen. Also check out a site called boost your low testosterone, this was recommended by cdnuts, lots of info about cycling supplements. Hope this helps.
Ya, I read cd’s testimony in the recovery section and familiar with that protocol. Myself, I haven’t tried it. When the DTH worked, it was 5 days on 2 days off. I’m open minded though. Have you tried any of these herbs? Did they help?
Update. Finished 2 bottles of Diesel Test Hardcore. Basically, zero change. Disappointed. Ran it at 16 pills a day, 5 days on, 2 days off x 5.5 weeks.
Will try Aromasin next.
10 days into Aromasin cycle…
I masturbated 4 times two days ago. Erections have been much firmer. There’s definite improvement. Night and morning wood, not so much. Libido has increased to a maximum of 5, from about a 1 baseline (10 point scale). Journaling my day-to-day progress.
The key with estrogen; it has to be kept within a window. Too high or low = no boners and libido. There’s a great thread by Legendary in the recovery section where he enjoyed a complete relapse in symptoms by using Letrozole under an endocrinologists care.
I will continue and report back.
Okay. Some good news!!
Day#14. Aromasin experiment.
had all night wood and morning wood. Haven’t experienced that in about 5-6 years! Libido wasn’t too strong today. However!! Had some decent libido yesterday! Erection strength is way up. Between a 5 - 7, on a ten point scale, compared to about a 1 baseline. Will continue.
Based on these great results, it’s obvious elevated estrogen levels play a role in suppressed libido and erectile dysfunction. Google hypothalamus-pitutary-testicular axis. Estrogen is the key hormonal modulator of testosterone production. High estrogen = suppressed testosterone (and everything else that goes along with it).
I’m self medicating here. Not under a doctors care. Using broscience, thousands of anecdotal steroid user reports, and basic biology as my guide.
I crushed estrogen too low there a couple days ago - joints were achy, and libido vanished. Skipped daily aromasin dose and erections and libido returned within one day! Still experimenting to find sweet spot.
This is really a huge breakthrough for me, and for most of you guys out there. Finding the estrogen sweet spot is hard - takes experimentation, journaling and patience. Too much anti estrogen and a guy will blow right through the sweet spot. Low estrogen shares many of the same symptoms as high estrogen; mainly low libido and ED!!
That this experiment has worked for me proves my estrogen is/was too high, that high estrogen is main culprit of PFS, and that it can be reversed!!!
Numerous anecdotal reports from steroid users observe less aromasin is necessary after prolonged use. This is huge. This likely means the body’s homestatic point for estrogen becomes lower (iow, aromasin retrains the body to convert less testosterone into estrogen). The implication here is that proscar and propecia, operated in exactly the reverse way…reset the bodys estrogenic homeostatic point at a much HIGHER LEVEL. Iow, finasteride trained the body to convert more testosterone into estrogen, which crushed libido and erections etc. That anti-estrogen drugs work to restore libido and erections, proves estrogen was too high…
I’m not cured. I’m only about 40-50% of what I was. But my baseline was between 0 and 1. This is a huge huge huge huge breakthrough. I’ll keep this thread updated. As I mentioned in the prior post, a few days ago, I climaxed four times. I was actually horny. About a 7 on a scale of ten. Again, this is from baseline of 0-1 for the past 7 years!!! It’s all about finding my sweet spot here, titrating the aromasin dose, and monitoring effects!
Interesting post. Are you trying any testosterone boosting supplements or bodybuilding?
Hey man. Good to see you’re still around.
Yes, I lifted weights for the past 1.5 years, with decent regularity. Usually, 3-5 days a week. The return to the gym, and the addition of muscle plus loss of fat did little to restore libido/erections etc. Negligible.
No, I am not taking any other test boosting product besides Aromasin. No test boosting supplements. Only my standard, every day regiment of vitamins and minerals, that do little for PFS. Only the aromasin at work here!!
Check out Legendarys thread in the recovery section. He experienced an even better resurgence with Letrozole.
Things are beginning to make sense. The first time I had bloodwork taken, I was on Sumtra Pasak Bumi Tongkat Ali. People rave about this stuff. I didn’t notice much effect. My free and total testosterone came back within the upper 75% percentile. Pretty decent right? But I still had ED, no libido etc.
A second round of bloodwork was taken several months later. I wasn’t on any test-booster. My free and total testosterone came in at the bottom 15th percentile (same as 70 year old man). Big difference.
I bet my estrogen was high in both instances, which prevented me from feeling the effects of the Tongkat Ali.
Many steroid users who dont use an aromatase inhibitor LOSE libido and erections while injecting testosterone. Why??? Because their body converts much of it to estrogen!! Iow, their body knows how much testosterone it should have floating around, so much of that extra testosterone gets converted to estrogen = libido and erectile suppression!
Also, same experience with men on TRT. They have low T, take shots with their doctor, and bam. Nothing. T is higher but no qualitative improvement in erections and libido. Why? They’re not on an anti-estrogen…They’re estrogen is likely too high…
This is a big part of the puzzle…
Wow, this fits my theory, that we suffer from estrogen dominance (which really means low progesterone or unopposed estrogen) I believe that the fin wiped out progesterone receptors sending us into and unopposed estrogen( remember not necessarily high estrogen) this leads to adrenal problems, suppressed testosterone, suppressed thyroid function (loosing hair, cold hands, etc) this is very interesting to me because I also believe this has nothing to do with raisng testosterone but realizing that testo is being supressed because our bodies are not adequately making progesteone (it’s being made into cortisol instead)
So you haven’t done TRT, but just and anti estrogen?
What anti estrogen are you taking?
@finatruth
First of all he is using aromasin. He mentioned it about ten times in his post.
And do you honestly believe that pfs is about estrogen dominance? I mean nearly all pfs victims have used tamoxifen and clomid with no results. And not to mention all the people that have been experimenting with arimidex. Dont you think that pfs is more complex than that? After all these years of people suffering and visiting doctors with no results?
I one hundred percent believe it’s about estrogen dominance/ adrenal disorder. Many people have mixed tRT with clomid, point being perhaps raising testo while on anti estrogen is not the answer and it just gets converted to more estrogen. I’m also talking about symptom management and not a cure
Yes. I haven’t been on any kind of TRT. My GP wants me to go on TRT (I have low testosterone). Yes, just on an anti-estrogen (Aromasin).
Interesting theory. I have no idea if it’s right or not. All I know is the anti-estrogen is working, my testosterone is low, and the Aromasin, when in the sweet spot, restores night and morning wood, libido and erections. This is proof to me that I am estrogen dominant (high estrogen).
Btw, anti-estrogens reduce estrogen while at the same time, increase testosterone. That’s the key. Estrogen suppresses testosterone production via the HPTA. high estrogen = low testosterone. low estrogen = higher testosterone. I was estrogen dominant, which appears to largely cause my low T.
Off topic how are your sides at the moment? Improving? So many people have tried a TRT based approach but it never seems to work, I guess its so hit and miss with test/estrogen balance?
Clomid and Tamoxifen are SERM’s (selective estrogen receptor modulators), which have a different method of action then Aromatase Inhibitors (Arimidex and Aromasin etc). Tamoxifen and clomid trick the brain to produce testosterone. They don’t have any effect on estrogen, except increasing it. Yes, SERM’s increase estrogen.
Aromatase Inhibitors either deactivate the aromatase enzyme (Arimidex) or completely destroy it (Aromasin). The result is less estrogen = higher testosterone.
The point is that Clomid and Tamoxifen, while increasing testosterone, also increase estrogen. That’s why many steroid users and PFS sufferers who attempted a T restart with clomid or tamoxifen, did not experience a resurgence in libido/erections = estrogen was pushed too high by the SERM. Several studies have examined the use of clomid in hypogondal men with decent results. In some men, likely men who enjoy a low conversion of testosterone to estrogen, experience a resurgence in libido/erections on clomid.
I trialed clomid for three months with marginal improvement. It worked - hair grew faster, balls were fuller. Yet not much improvement in libido or wood.
From the hundreds of anecdotal steroid user reports I’ve read - estrogen has to be kept within a WINDOW. Too high OR too low = no wood, erections, libido.
What I’m trying to say here is; finding the estrogen sweet spot with an Aromatase Inhibitor takes experimentation, time and patience. Take too much = sore joints, no libido, no wood. Take too little = no progress = no wood , no libido. See what I’m saying?
The sweet spot is different for each individual. There is no one size fits all dosage or level!! While you might have best erections and libido with estrogen on the high side of the range, I might need it in the low side of the range to produce the same qualitative effects. And somebody else might need it in the middle! This all takes lengthy individual experimentation, at slowly increasing dosages, for an extended period of time to get it right!
I would guess the guys here that experimented with AI’s, either took too much, approached it in a haphazard manner, crushed their estrogen (or not enough), and wrote them off as useless. I’ve read a couple reports from users here who did just that with AI’s. Read Legendarys thread about Letrozole. Its good.
Anyway, try it for yourself. Buy some generic Aromasin, start at 6.25 mg per day, trial for 3 weeks, then up the dose to 12.5mg per day, trial for three weeks, until you find the sweet spot. You won’t know until you try it for yourself.
This brings up another issue - even if a PFS guy returns labwork within the range, it doesn’t mean he’s okay!! Do NOT go off the lab ranges! Look, you might need your estrogen on the low side and T on the higher end of the range to get boners and libido. Now what happens if you go get bloodwork, and your estrogen comes back at the higher end of the range (but within range), and T somewhere floating around the middle? The Doc says you’re fine!! Labs are within range!!! But you’re not fine. You’re impotent with a floppy dick. That’s the point. My labs came back within range but I was impotent. So even though my labwork showed I wasn’t castrated, my dick still didn’t work. So something was off, obviously. But doctors go by lab ranges, not by qualitative experience.
All the steroid user reports and guys on TRT, it’s the same thing; estrogen too high or low = no boners and libido. Start there.
i’m sorry man, but you need to stop passing out advice like this so matter of factly. if this was the “cure”, finding the sweet spot of estrogen, then this forum wouldn’t be here and we’d have way more recoveries. just because you feel better for a certain amount of time doesn’t mean it’s the end all be all cure. there have been people that messed around with this stuff and crashed and got 10x worse. i would advise people reading this to not go about this method because it’s been tried and tested for the past 10 years and there’s what… 1 recovery maybe?
estrogen is high for a reason. i don’t know why, but we all ready know artificially messing with it is not the cure. yes you feel better temporarily, but then you get worse or don’t change.
Hello brothers,
I lurk in the shadows reading these post daily. I was following LATE’s protocol there for awhile, but no solid results. I’m a little nervous about continuing taking progesterone. Just recent;y read up on Tumbleweeds progress with Aromasin Exemestane seems promising if you get the dosage right. That being said does any one know of a good source to buy Aromasin? Thanks in advance.
Who messed around with AI’s and got “ten times” worse? Can you post a few links that substantiate the claims you’re making?
Listen, PFS guys aren’t experiencing this hormonal mess in a vacuum. You claim there is only “one” report of a guy who reduced estrogen and experienced a resurgence in libido (Legendary). There are literally hundreds of anecdotal steroid and TRT user reports posted on the web of guys who regained libido and erections after getting their estrogen back in range (either using an AI or laying off too much of one)!! Get it???
And yes, if your estrogen is high, or high for you, you should experiment with an aromatase inhibitor to get it down (and increase testosterone). Otherwise you will continue to have a floppy, impotent cock, because that’s exactly what high estrogen does in men!!
Brotha you keep dropping that info on us, I know a few negative comments won’t deter you…I and many others appreciate your efforts. LATE’s protocol, CD’s recommended lifestyle changes and your experimentation with AIs seem to be the most promising/logical ideas I’ve read to date on this forum. At this point I would rather take my chances with those of you on this forum who have gotten their PHDs from the University of “Brosciences” than to deal with western medicine quacks who will never understand or even acknowledge our plight. (Saw brosciences on one of Tumbleweeds post, cracked me up).
I have a question…Does anyone think that it would be counter productive and/or stupid to maybe use an AI (Aromasin) with LATE’s dabs of Progesterone simultaneously? No bueno? Thank you everyone for your time and dedication. Be well brothers.
Look around the forum man… theres people that have tried and tested the hormone methodology for literally YEARS. Yes it brings you to a baseline… no it DOES NOT cure you. I’m not trying to be a negative nancy here, I’m simply stating facts. If you want the REAL recovery, then yes, cdsnuts protocol is the way to go. Not the hormone route. All natural or be stuck in PFS limbo for life.