Short Term Use - Major Side Effects - Recovering?

Hypopituarism?
mayoclinic.com/health/hypopituitarism/ds00479/dsection=causes

  • Notes for Story -

  • I think I got side effects so quick because my DHT was low.

  • My LH and FSH are not going up and I now have Hypogonadism. Possible explanation Higher estrogen, HPTA problem.

  • Iā€™m aging and getting wrinkles,muscle wastage high cortisol (catabolic) low androgens (anabolic).

  • Low HGH causing all sorts of problems.

  • High TSH hair is falling out chronically (never did before propecia).

Trying to decide where to go from here, doctors cannot come to a logical conclusion except that propecia made me ā€œcrashā€.
only GH and Gondotrophs effected.

  • A Note for Self -

  • Possibly 5ar was switched off and now there is a deficiency. Not enough to function receptors.

  • Salivary Tests of Cortisol, DHEAs, Testosterone. Measure more accurate testings of tissue active hormones over bloods. - Possible.

  • Any over production of e1,e2,e3. Causes problems such as down regulation of LH.

  • Neurosteroids (possible), adrenals, HPTA all effected by inhibiting this enzyme.

  • Getting measured for special test on cellular activity.

  • Pregnenolone may help with reset of neurosteroids.

  • Problem producing adequate amounts of Progesterone possibly. (downstream hormonal deficiency)

Tests next week.

Cellular activity. Tissue levels.

what tests are you planning?

  • Note for self -

Improvement in girth with pharmaceutical grade Trib.

Medi Herb - Tribulus ForteIngredients
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protodioscin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris

-Skin aging very quickly.
-Social anxiety.
-Disconnected from reality.

  • Current Regime -

Opticleanse GHI - Support for Gastrointestinal System, Hepatic Function, and Cytokine Balance. Twice a Day.
xymogen.com/products/product-detail.aspx?pid=155

Vitamin D - 3000UI
Zinc Chelate 125mg = 25mg Zinc. Before Bed , Empty Stomach.
Vitamin E
L - Tyrosine. Morning.
5-HTP. Before Bed.
Niacin - 100mg (occasionally)
MSM.
Fish Oil Omega 3ā€™s.
Reservatrol.

Medi Herb - Tribulus Forte
Ingredients
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protodioscin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris

  • Current Regime -

Meal 1

Oats + Almonds
Banana
Kiwi Fruit
Yakult
Orange Juice

Vitamins
L- Tyrosine Oral Powder
Vitamin D 2000 UI
Iron
Vitamin E
Medi Herb - Tribulus Forte
Co-enzyme Q10
Fish Oil Tablets 1500mg x 2

Snack 1
Nuts - Walnuts, Almonds, Cashews
1 x Protein Shake
[Size=4]Xymogen - Protein Opticleanse GHI - Support for Gastrointestinal System, Hepatic Function, and Cytokine Balance
xymogen.com/products/product-detail.aspx?pid=155[/size]

Meal 2
200gms free range chicken.
250 gms rice
Spinach Leaves

Meal 3
150gms Turkey Breast
Capsicum(red,yellow,green), spinach leaves, avocado, cucumber, cherrie tomatoes.

Meal 4
180gms Tuna
Sweet potato mash.
Brocolli
Asparagus
Carrots
Beans

Snack 2
1 x Protein Shake

Before bed
Vitamin D 1000UI
5-HTP
Swisse Zinc (incls magnesium,manganese,vitamin A)
L-Arginine
L-Lysine
Medi-Herb - Tribulus Forte

Improvements out of 10

Drive 6/10
Swimmers 6/10 (from water to white)
Sleep 7/10 (waking up revitalized)
Brain Fog 6/10

Also must add Iā€™m taking a herbal remedy made by my Naturopath which works wonders. Increased sperm count,drive and mental clarity.

[Size=4]P.s I am not a doctor nor qualified to prescribe medications. This is something i have written up based on research and trial/error. I take no responsbility if you try this.[/size]

Although this stuff is not a cure, Itā€™s the best I can do at the moment. Iā€™m feeling so much better doing this regime. Closest iā€™ve felt myself in a while.

I see a lot of guys questioning Saliva vs Blood hormone testing.

hormonetests.net/pub/SalivaVsSerum.pdf

  • Propeciashizā€™s Notes on Doctors -

Urologists - My experience absolutley USELESS!!! Waste of time. (in my case)

Endocrinologists - Slow and donā€™t look at the broad picture. Though been very helpful finding a connected Dr to begin researching my case.

Anti Aging Doctor/Biochemist/Sports Specialist/Pharmacist- Very useful, looks at all aspects of your hormonal profile, Currently researching all my blood work and analyzing any underlying problems. He is an ex bodybuilder who suffered from a pituitary tumor and lives off synthetic hormones, understands what it feels like to go through PFS because he took finasteride to control his DHT, had a really bad experience.

GP - My GP is very good, refers me to doctors, does all my bloods when requested, believes my situation. Highly recommened him to anyone from Melbourne.

Naturopath - Best results iā€™ve had from any doctor as far as helping with my symptoms. If you are from melbourne and are intrested let me know. Highly recommend this guy.

  • Current Action -

MRI on pituitary to check for tumor, as iā€™m suffering from vision issues. Eliminate underlying issue.
Full blood panel including amino acid profiles.
Further research on the 13th of September.

-Thoughts on PFS-

Endocrine system dysrupted resulting in screw up feed back loop.
5AR2 Deficiency.

s the 5 alpha-reductase of the hypothalamus and of the anterior pituitary neurally regulated? Effects of hypothalamic deafferentations and of centrally acting drugs.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6224970

- My Progress -

  • Endocrinologist - Reported finasteride to induce side effects to the TGA (FDA for Australia)
  • Need more Australianā€™s for research to commence.
  • Andrology Australia has not heard of PFS, Raise awareness , or else this is going no where!!
  • More tests on HGH , IGF 1 - 2 , IGFBP 1-2-3-4-5. Low IGFBP3 causing wrinkles, why has it gone down so much?
  • So far DHEA has increased, IGF1 has increased, Test has increased but staying low in correlation to LH (Test is 325 , LH 3.0 , Total testosterone 16.6)
  • Going to begin HCG treatment.
  • My Thoughts on PFSā€¦In my situation"

DHT was supressed, Downregulating the HPTA.
Body Attempts to stablise.
Negative effect on Loop resulting in Crash.
LH levels decrease along with testosterone
IGF1 levels increase compensating for lack of LH - FSH.
IGF1 Increases to high levels, though there is a lack of proteins to bind to, so it is roaming without a home.
Androgen levels stay at low levels due to feedback loop being down regulated.

  • Notes for self -

Feeling great.
So over all these rediculous theories from steroid forums and SSRIā€™s , pudenal neuropathy etc.
You took propeciaā€¦ Propecia decreases DHT by inhibiting the 5alpha reductase enzyme.
Of course your going to get screwed up by the shit if you had low testosterone levels,low lh and fsh prior to taking it. Your junk shrivels up because you where deprived of DHT, not because your body was invaded by parasites and candida. ā€œDeclining hormone levels will affect the male sexual organs due to falling testosterone levels, which allowed for the development and maintenance of the male reproductive system during puberty and later life. Side effects of low hormone levels may include shrinking testes, loss of sexual desire, inability to achieve or maintain an erection and the lessening of spontaneous erections (morning erections). Sexual decline may contribute to some mental disturbances, including loss of interest in normal activitiesā€

If your hormonal system is supressed,downregulated, or inhbited. Is it logical you will see changes such as decreased muscle mass, increased fat deposits, mental changes (cloudiness, insomnia etc) , decrease sexual functioning (depression).

-_-ā€™ end of rant.

And how do you go back?

Iā€™m not a doctor or qualified to prescribe any medications nor take responsiblity if you choose to do so.
But if your system is supressed or downregulated which can happen if you take something which inhibits or increases a hormone via the feed backloop.
You can try herbal supplements or let time do its thing, depending on your system. I personally turned to a synthetic alternative of LH,FSH, Triptorelin to increase my natural production, which has had postive results. Adminstering HCG can also have postive effects of upregulating the feedback loop. I donā€™t know your levels history, or your situation. Everyone is different.

FYI, This may help provide you with an understanding, if your unaware.

"Testosterone is manufactured in the Leydigs cells in the testes, at about 2.5-11mgs/day for the average male, and is largely influenced by another hormone: LH (Leutenizing Hormone). LH promotes the secretion of testosterone by being released in pulses which trigger pulses of testosterone. Both LH as well as testosterone are secreted in pulses between eight and fourteen times, daily. Testosterone secretion typically precedes an LH pulse by approximately one hour.

Testosterone is, of course, controlled via a negative feedback loop. As such, a higher level of testosterone in your body causes a decrease in LH, which in turn causes less testosterone to be released. Testosterone converts to Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in your body via the 5alpha-Reductase enzyme (5a-R). DHT is very odd from a biological point of view (or from mine, anyway)?more in a second. Testosterone also converts to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme.

DHT is considered quite androgenic compared to testosterone but is not highly anabolic because it is not very active in skeletal muscle (it is enzymatically deactivated by 3-alpha hydroxysysteroid dehydrogenase). However, in most of the body, its androgenic effects are felt quite profoundly: in the brain (the CNS), skin and genitals DHT is the most active androgen because 5-AR is concentrated heavily in practically every androgen-dependent area of the body, barring skeletal muscle. Remember however that 5a-R is not DHT; we need to add testosterone to 5a-R to make DHT.

Now, let?s talk about DHT and 5-alpha-reductase, in terms of LH and testosterone. In some studies (predictably), Dihydrotestosterone has been shown to inhibit LH and FSH secretion and serum testosterone concentrations. In addition, and very importantly for this discussion, the actual conversion process of testosterone being metabolized into DHT via this 5a-R enzyme may act in some way to inhibit Leutenizing Hormone Release (and ergo would inhibit your HPTA and natural testosterone production). Yeah, the actual conversion process is inhibitory, as (apparently) is the actual end product (DHT) to some degree (itā€™s part of the hormonal cascade and negative feedback loop that controls testosterone production). DHT actually has been shown in cell cultures to be as inhibitory to the LH response on LHRH as Testosterone itself.

We know that anavar is inhibitory to testosterone production (anavar is 2-oxygenated and 17a-alkylated DHT)even in moderate to low dosesā€¦while Proviron (which is DHT with the addition of a 1-methyl group) has not been shown to be inhibitory to testosterone production even at pretty high doses.

DHT is actually anti-estrogenic, so the answer to that last question is yes- taking DHT derived drugs will likely have a negative effect on estrogen levels in the body (i.e. they will be lowered)."

1- what this Anti-aging doctor thinks about our PFS situtation? does he thinks it is cureable?
2-your MRI will be waste of money
3-how would you fix 5AR2 dificiency? do you have any idea? if 5AR2 deficient then why Andractim causing negative sides when applied directly to genitalia? not one almost all people here see penis shrinkage after applying DHT. what explanaition do you have?
4-if 5 AR2 is lowered then why not test it in our skin but as far as I know Awor says it not the problem. Also normally 5AR is used as a catalyst, its level remains the say in our body after each Tā€“>DHT conversion. I donā€™t know after fin binds it new 5AR is produced?

appreciate your struggle.

1. 1- what this Anti-aging doctor thinks about our PFS situtation? does he thinks it is cureable? Yeah he understands why it caused the effect it did to us, Yes it is cureable aslong as you donā€™t have any underlying other treatments we donā€™t know about like sterioid abuse for example. He himself took finasteride and is completely aware of itā€™s side effects and action.

  1. your MRI will be waste of money? MRI is a last resort to check for any underlying issues.

answer other questions soon.

3-how would you fix 5AR2 dificiency? In my case I donā€™t think iā€™m deficient in 5AR2 after ceasing propecia. Iā€™m guessing you would have to take it for a long period of itme or high doses for that ot be permant, even then I still think your body would regenerate 5AR2.

if 5AR2 deficient then why Andractim causing negative sides when applied directly to genitalia? Remember it is a steroid in large doses it will shrink your testicles. Iā€™m sure small amounts would have positive effects.

4-if 5 AR2 is lowered then why not test it in our skin but as far as I know Awor says it not the problem. Also normally 5AR is used as a catalyst, its level remains the say in our body after each Tā€“>DHT conversion. I donā€™t know after fin binds it new 5AR is produced?

Supressing DHT will downregulate the feedback loop. If you have low T or DHT will naturally be lower unless of course you are steroid user your DHT will be through the roof!

DHT was supressed, Downregulating the HPTA.
Body Attempts to stablise.
Negative effect on Loop resulting in Crash.
LH levels decrease along with testosterone
IGF1 levels increase compensating for lack of LH - FSH.
IGF1 Increases to high levels, though there is a lack of proteins to bind to, so it is roaming without a home.
Androgen levels stay at low levels due to feedback loop being down regulated.

It all depends on the bodys feedback loops and your levelsā€¦ After doing my treatment my skin looks amazing again youthful and plump. Before it looked dry with black bags etcā€¦

Iā€™m making a massive assumption here but alot of guys could of got so messed up because there LH/FSH/Testosterone where already low before taking Finasteride. Resulting in a incomplete recovery.

As far as penile shrinkage remember the penis is full of androgen receptors DHT has 3 x the affinity to bind to androgen receptors than t over estrogen. Any reduction in androgens will obviously be a smaller package because there is not enough hormones to fill the receptors hence androgen deprivation. Smaller flacid state of the genitles can also be a measurement of low free testosterone