The basic shutdown symptoms were less ejaculate, balls seemed smaller, and the little libido that there was was completly turned off - none. When I first started the androhard there was an increase libido, which probably came from the initial increased DHT in the system, but over time, and I’m only speculating, the hypothalamus sensed it and told the pituitary to stop sending LH and FSH, thus less libido and ejaculate. Also, mood seemed to get worse. I’m not sure if this is how it work, but those were the effects I got after using the Androhard. I also had these effects but to a greater degree after using Proviron for about 4-6 weeks at 75mg per week. At first the Proviron was awesome, almost like a cure, but then some how it “catches up with you” and you start to get suppresed. Perhaps a lower dose might work…dunno…i havent tried playing with it again.
mariobros -
I don’t know about Andractim, but I would suspect that AndroHard would be similar to Proviron, which is also an already 5alpha-reduced precursor of DHT. I agree with everything else you said. Here is a link to what seems to be a knowledgeable discussion of on-cycle hCG administration:
primordialperformance.com/st … s-hcg.html
Ihatepropecia702 -
Those sound plausible as shutdown symptoms. As mariobros said, however, some shutdown might be desirable in this case. But who knows.
feunugreek seeds has been shown to cause testicular damage in rats. stay away from them.
Also the best thing that can help is Arimidex and Nolvadex. again blue up might not be safe as it has tribulus, which has cause gyno and hypogondadims for many.
sps
I’ve read this before, but do we know if tribulus caused gyno or hypogonadism directly, or it raised T so high that the excess T started to convert to E then over time E accumulated and that caused gyno and hypo? I’m not sure it tribulus does it directly, but I think its more likely the estrogen causes. I’m not sure though.
whew, so many products, so many theories… this is just what ScaredinMD mentioned when I sent him a message. Nolvadex or another SERM might be necessary. I just wish we had a way of judging approximately what sort of PCT regimen is good for our situation. I’m guessing that many of the people on this site share symptoms I have… shrunken balls, shrunken penis, probably a smaller prostate (rarely have urgency), fat deposits and water retention on an otherwise lean body, loss of short-term memory, poor sleep, lack of joy, lack of libido, etc. I am normally 188cm/6’1 1/2" in height, 182ish/80 kilos in weight, sub-8% body fat, Caucasian (85%German, 15%other+Anglo-Saxon). I’m guessing that a few of you on here have a similar profile prior to FIN use.
I’m guessing that many of you willing to try such cycling are also thinking that it’s a good thing to try because if one cycle fails, then another can be attempted in the future. We apparently don’t have any better answers, but personally I find the amount of info and products for PCT out there overwhelming.
I’m joining some of these anabolic/steroid forums to get some other viewpoints; thinking I’m going to get zero response or just a load of overwhelming crap…but, maybe it’s worth a try. If anyone else is using such forums and would suggest one to me, please do.
This has been worrying me, but I keep telling myself that it is unlikely that the one person who tried this would be the one person who would respond positively to it. The way I have been thinking about it is that propecia screwed up something in our system, so if we get shut down and restart, we should restart correctly because propecia won’t be there to screw our system up again (which is what seems to have happened to ScaredinMD). That seems like the most obvious explanation to me, but in the end who knows?
Doing this cycle is a tough call especially when you consider all the other variables, such as whether a SERM is needed for some people or whether some people would get shut down at all, but in the end it seems like this is the only solution we may have. Hopefully it works out for us.
Just to chime in. I only ran a four week cycle because I too noticed that libido completely disappeared and I started feeling cranky. I was gonna run it the whole six but decided not to once I got these symptoms. As of now, all of the DHT related benefits that I had while running Andro are gone. I reallly didn’t expect them to stay though. The H-drol cycle is more suppressive then the andro hard and it’s also not a “natural” steriod hormone such as DHT. This may or may not have something to do with it.
Elitefitness.com is a good site with alot of knowledgable juice heads. There are also propecia posts there as well.
well thats depressing to hear.
So, I take it you’ve gone through the whole PCT as well? or, are you still on the PCT? did you also take liver support on the cycle? HCG?
Maybe we ought to start a new section on this site about all of our attempts on cycles with some detailed descriptions of our regimen(s) (WTH is the plural of “regimen”?).
Thanks for the recommendation of elitefitness.com I’m currently trying to initiate conversation on anabolicminds.com. the demographic I see generally on the site doesn’t give me a whole lot of confidence, but we’ll see…
Folks,
Please read Mew’s latest post here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1417&p=23240#p23240
In particular, read this part describing possible therapies for androgen insensitivity syndrome:
Now, if I am not mistaken, androsterone is a precursor of DHT, and halodrol is a synthetic pro-hormone, which suggests that both AndroHard and H-Drol are OTC versions of the second course of treatment described here, the former using endogenous, the latter synthetic androgens. Maybe ScaredinMD’s androgen receptors did contain “other such CAIS or PAIS mutations?” I don’t know, but this seems to provide some indication for why his regimen worked, or at any rate put it in a more scientific context. Just a theory, of course.
Mew’s new finding is indeed exciting. I have thought about taking the entire sheet of Proviron (10 25mg tabs) 250mg at once for a day or two and see if that would count as a super physiological amount. Granted, I never did, but after this finding it is tempting…I think the anonymouse doctor in the theroy section mentioned something to this effect.
Which theory section? Theory section of the study?
I’m a week into PCT and I ran a liver support supp the whole time, although not necessary with Androhard.
And yes, there is much better and more educated info at Elite fitness rather then the bro-ology you get at most other sites. Most of the guys there are older (30+) and have experience in that realm.
If more people are going to attempt such things they could always put the new threads in the Hormone Replacement section. I believe that would be the best place for these threads…
Which theory section? Theory section of the study?
[/quote]
I think its this thread where anonymouse mentions super physiological amount of DHT
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2262
Might i suggest the reason that this supp doesn’t work long term or as much as we want is because any DHT supplement may be predominately converting to Adiol 17-G and not Adiol 3-G. Adiol 3-G is the only compound shown to provide the hedonic effects as shown in C.A. fryes research.
Why H-drol worked for scaredinmd - i dont know. It could have raised both. All depends on the particular enzymes in each person.
just out of curiosity, is anyone thinking of doing the 6 weeks of H-drol but with a nolva PCT? If I do this I’d like to do it exactly as ScaredinMD did, but reading a lot about H-drol on bodybuilding forums is making me nervous about just the Inhibit-E and Blue Up. But then again, I’d rather not risk the sides of nolva as well as the risks of ordering something like that through the mail. Anyway, I was just interested in what you guys were thinking on the subject, as I’m going back and forth on this.
we don’t know for sure if ScaredinMD did recover unless he posts his blood results. We all asumed that he is 100% ok. Guys wait untill we see something undeniable in black and white.
So are you saying you don’t believe him? Listen, blood tests can be useful for certain things, but for the most part, guys here have perfect blood work and are still f’ed up. It means nothing. What means everything, to I would imagine most guys here, is how they feel. If you feel 100% and everything is working the way it used to, who the hell cares what some numbers on a page say? I sure as hell don’t. If I’m getting raging hard ons, salivating at my girl and fucking away like there’s no tomorrow, well. that’s G-damn good enough for me. Honestly, it should be for you too. No sense in stressing over numbers.
word. besides, he said he cant afford blood test now.
and, playing devils advocate, hasn’t it been years for you striken? why not try the hdrol - if it doesn’t work, do you really think you could be worse off then you are now? What is worse - sitting around and continuing to “wait” for a miraculous change, or trying something?
not telling you to do it, just putting that question out there.
Justo to clarify:
CDnuts, you took AndroHard from Primordial Performance for 4 weeks and you felt improvement of sexual symptoms, and experienced signs of increased androgen activity.
You are now doing PCT to recover the function of your HPTA by taking the products included in The testosterone recovery stack also from primordial performance.
Is this correct ?
what sustain alpha do you use, the topical or the oral one ?
thanks. Zossima.