Road to Recovery without any medicine - Others to validate

Therapeutic Efforts
#10

I will keep updating.

One of the experience you would have after sprinting is cold penis and shrinking. But it improves in the forthcoming rest days before you may feel the effects taper off. And this when you again start sprinting (2 days sprinting hard and 2 days rest). So, based on my experience I have given the regime

I do sleep well too and have experienced less panic attacks due to anxiety. This may be because I would have been exhausted after a extensive sprint and harmonies doing Thier work during sleep. Please remember not to over do it, have a balanced sprint regime.

More background on my history:

When I was first faced with side effects, I did do the tests which everyone on the forum recommeded and my doctor always said that free testosterone is the most important. So, when I had my side effects, before I went to andologist, he has order for free testosterone which was more than the upper limit. We have a range of 4-30 and it turned out to be 31 which was very good as per my age. However, the problem was with E2 which should be less < 40 but mine turned out to be 57. That is when the doctor prescribed Tamoxifin for a month but unfortunately the E2 (estrodial) did not reduce and it stayed the same. During the period of use, I did feel good and normal and when expressed the same, the doctor said it would have reduced during usage and rebounded back.

This is when the doctor prescribed Armitose inhabitor to reduce E2 as others harmones are good and more importantly Free T. This is when the problem started as he has prescribed 1mg to be used daily for a month. I just blindly believed and used it for 15 days but i felt horrible during usage. That is when I noticed that some of the member in the forum warned to be careful while using AI. Noticing this I immediately took E2 test along with Free T and I was shocked to see that my Free T tanked to 6 and E2 was not even detectable as anything <10 cannot be detected here. So the report says less than 10 but the worst part is Free T which tanked. Prior to use of AI although I had side effects during the day I used to have nocturnal erections.

Post this my doctor noticing it (low t and low E2 means your HPTA needs to restart) he suggested Clomid, HCG to restart HPTA axis. This just made things worse or kept the same. I was not able to get my Free T more than 10 (range being 4-30). All these taken during 2017 & 2018.

Fed up with use of all medicines (I was worried that these did more harm), I started to hit gym (take ON whey) and some times sprint (never continued long) based on the general suggestions here. However, I used to sleep well but never felt normal. All sideeffects are same except vision and migraine problems.

Even today I repent to have used Armitose inhabitor as I feel my sides are because of this instead of Fin. Although fin has messed up my harmones with high E2 it did not impact Free T (which is critical for normal functioning of penis). I should have tried natural methods to reduce my E2 instead of AI.

I have recently take Free T in Mar’20 after 4 months of gym with moderate exercise and before Covid19 (i.e before sprinting regime). Free T for the first time after long time was above 10 at 15 but way less for my age. The ideal Free T should be in upper range of (4-30) with E2 controlled less than 40. My E2 is however is in control at 16. I hope sprinting improves my Free T.

Also, I started not to follow the forum these months and divert my focus on other things. These also helped to some extent.

I hope this helps and gives a brief of my history on use of meds. I am currently no more using any meds. I even suggest being in Sun for 20 mins early day helps more than taking 60k IU of D3 tablet a week. I am staying a at from but when I tried some vitamin tablets during the sprint regime to check my sensitivity, I was ok nothing drastically made me worse.

1 Like
#11

We have Free T & E2 measured in pg/ml incase you are curious about the ranges. As I see many speak in mg/ml on the forum.

1 Like
#12

Hahahaha I love you!!! . I’m sort of speechless but welcome to the world of exercising!!

I literally laughed at this post because it’s the most beautiful and yet ridiculous lesson ever. I’ve been here for many years and I personally feel like I’ve recovered 95% from whatever disease I’ve had. I believed I was PFS myself and I think finasteride caused me many problems. I actually thought I also had CFs too!

I Visit this forum from time to time to Help where I can but after many years I’ve decided that a great majority of the people here are NOT PFS. I really truly believe in PFS and I think finasteride really screws you up but I also believe that of the millions of Middle Aged men out there losing hair … many are not in great shape. Half my 45 year old friends are in a sad state. I’ve seen so many guys here that were “athletes” When they were young and are now middle aged fat and suddenly wonder why their dick doesn’t work Or their dick is cold and lifeless or they “feel” lifeless. I have literally had weird fat guys here sending me pictures of their penis to give advice on what they think is going on. That’s crazy!

My journey to wellness began in my late 30s. I was fat. I had classic PFS but also classic hormone issues. I started exercising and lost 30 lbs in 3 years (mainly because I still enjoy having sex :slight_smile: I added in hormone replacement therapy with testosterone and I’m better 5 or 6 years later. I think fin wrecked me but I think there is a way out. Sadly some have killed themselves …

Thousands of people come here as they reach their late 20s, 30s or 40s and they think have PFS symptoms! Some really do but So many just have real medical issues. You actually can see this “bro science” play out with hydroxychloriquin and covid. I’d say 75% of the people here have never had PROPER blood tests like estrogen ultra sensitive, sbgh, free testosterone, etc … many live in countries like Canada or the UK or Europe with “basic” health care that does not treat these things …

I always ask for blood tests when people join here and most never hate them. They show up and self medicate. If anyone ever feels like they have PFS they should get a full blood work up including prolactin, shbg, ultra sensitive estrogen, free testosterone, thyroid markers and then let’s talk. If you don’t have those tests and you are here then you should not be here asking advice

I love that exercise cured you. It was the path to my recovery also

2 Likes
#13

What exercise did you? We mostly hear about lifting weights when speaking about exercise and pfs but running/walking/intervals we dont have many reports on so all these reports about running are very welcomed, atleast for me.

#14

I did the same exercises most of them recommended here. Heavy Lifting focusing more on Core exercises such as Squats, Dead Lifts, Chest Press, shoulder Press, Abs etc and focusing minimum on single muscle exercises such as biceps, triceps.

When exercising during rest days, I did have nocturnal erections but they were not consistent. I did have panic attacks to wake up in the night to touch and feel cold penis. Exercising helps but not to an extent of Sprinting from the last 3 months where my recovery symptoms are more consistent and controlled.

A quick update from last time I have posted on the regime.
In the early part of the week, i stopped sprinting for more than usual i.e 2 days and took it to 4 days of rest. I saw my results tapper off. Since then again i started the regime as usual and I am back to my normal (not before FIN) but so much better in terms of nocturnal and spontaneous erections. So, I am able to control my consistency with the regime.

Has anyone tried it out, i know it is early but if you have done it consistently for 2-3 weeks that where you should notice something. Please share your observations

4 Likes
#15

Interesting someone else on the forum too has reported.

2 Likes
#16

Lots of people here have real PFS. I’m 17, exercise often, yet have “post drug syndrome” in full force. My hormones are in normal range, Infact my T was 895ng/dl last December. These are not normal problems to have at 17 at all, PFS is real. Of course only after you’ve recovered from PFS is it easy to dismiss it. That’s not the kind of thinking we need here, we need full 100% without-a-doubt acknowledgement of PFS. Especially from recoverers.

4 Likes
#17

I do not understand what you tried to tell in the above post. If you do not like to try. Just be out of it.

Not even a doctor can provide a 100% gaurantee. Even they take a willful no objection before they operate in you and if things go wrong it would be your decision. So coming to this forum to find a confirmed answer is not what we are here for. As we do not have medical support to solve this, all member are trying within thier capacity to see what best works and share thier experiences or knowledge.

Don’t even spend time reading my post as if you start with a negative bias it will not get you far

#18

I am recovered and I see an significant improvement monthly and I am positive.

I am able to better control my recoveries than a month ago. My placid state of penis is now normal and is not cold. So, I see a marked improvement in my symptoms nocturnal and spontaneous symptoms. I am getting spontaneous erections sometimes which was never the case in my last 4 yrs

I am now having satisfying sex with my partner, masturbating without the fear of losing my libdo and hardness. Post that I have a fairly quick refractory period.

I have found a solution for myself atleast and I would love to hear from other. I would not have posted this if it involves medicines or other complex treatments. There is not to loose by following this regime as it only need will power to execute it.

Also, please do not over do by mixing sprinting with heavy weight lifting or exercises. Heavy lifting masks the recovery and I believe I was not able to identify it when I was exercising. So, please let go off exercises for a couple of month and only follow the regime to see if it works. Rest is primary.

I will stop posting as I do not have anything to post apart from recovering. I will clarify if anyone has a question and I would be happy if some benefits from my regime.

#19

My erections are normalizing now also. Running helps. Weight lifting helps and so does a postive attitude that you will be ok. Im glad you saw my post about running. Reading your testament on it has given me more hope. Just ordered a really nice pair of running shoes lol. They will be here today and the moment they hit the door they are going on my feet and im going straight out the door!! This is possible to get better from. Over the past month and a half my mood has been stable , my sleep has improved, my erections have normalized . I still feel a bit off but I think it may be from st johns wort . But its not a horrible feeling . Caffeine helps me creatine helps me vitamins help me . Heavy lifting helps me and now running. We all just need to keep pushing . Ive said before I feel like symptoms are persistent not permanent. I truly belive tjat because if people like me and hope wins can make progress we all can . Its just a matter of putting in the work. Just like anything in life. You need to work hard to get results .

2 Likes
#20

Never said i did not think PFS was real. I’m sure I had it. If you read any of my posts I am a firm believer In PFS but I also think the issue with many is hormonal. Wether that’s a problem with your hormonal axis Or receptors who knows but I do know that if your 17, I seriously doubt you have had a full work up of hormones on an ultra sensitive level. Most doctors just won’t do $8000 in tests because they think it’s wasteful. I eventually could see my issue after loads of tests. you need a good endo to have them run. I stand by my point that many come here and waive their testosterone level like a flag and say that it’s immediately PFS because their T looks normal. I’m on TRT and I can tell you that your your T can be 1200 and your dick might still be cold and limp as fuck from a host of other reasons. I used to be really overweight and that made my problems 10x worse. I’ve seen people here who are thin and run daily with PFS issues but Science is science and it’s Ridiculous not to explore all options. You need a good doctor who believes in PFS and will run enough tests before you start popping pills and taking supplements. Half the guys on here take anastrizole without understanding that this will make you first feel better As it swings your hormones around and then make you feel worse for a very long time. AIs are powerful things …

#21

Good to hear that you are recovering. Hope it stays forever

1 Like
#22

Understand that all do not have the resources nor the time to keep convincing doctors. Of all the doctors (even the best) do not agree to PFS and they think that we have only take a drop in the ocean when compared to the dosage used to treat enlarged prostrate patients.

I lost hope that any doctor will help or can cure and neither the studies are encouraging.

#23

Your right. I think 95% of the people here do not have these resources and it’s part of the problem. It’s a horrible never ending cycle where people sick. It was probably caused by finasteride so they start this journey of taking pills, waiting a week or 2 to see how they feel and then jumping on to some other hormone or supplement. There is no science behind the methodology. I see it constantly on this site. I can tell you from experience with something like TRT, if I change my dose I have to wait 6-8 weeks to definitively tell how that new dose Effects my body. (Trt is a long journey) I’m not suggesting TRT will fix everyone here but it’s an example of the concept of steady state and half lives and how drugs effect the production of other hormones in your body and how you have to wait to see how your body reacts abs use blood tests to monitor all this. Me personally, i would have driven hours to see a specialist and I know a few. I see one in nyc.

#24

I’m afraid this is flawed logic given the full and broad scope of the clinical picture of PFS. It implicitly apportions blame to patients for continuing to suffer from a significant and devastating physiological disease; “you’re continuing to suffer to the extent that you do because you’re just not working hard enough man”. That isn’t acceptable on this forum, which exists in part to provide support for sufferers.

As per the paper authored by the administrators

The diverse symptoms of PFS and their potential severity are not adequately appreciated by clinicians nor in medical literature ​(Traish, 2018)​. PFS presents heterogeneously, with variably severe symptoms from a broad constellation, in isolation or combination. Despite the significant interindividual differences in presentation, there are key commonalities in the disease behaviour. The health of the most severely affected patients is so profoundly impacted that they cannot continue their lives in a meaningful capacity. PFS is frequently causative of relationship breakdown, disability preventing work, isolation and suicide. Although of controversial practical application, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs is a pervasive categorisation of motivating human needs ​(Kenrick et al., 2010)​. PFS, by this measure, can prove ruinous to the attainment of basic physiological needs in sleep and sex, safety needs in emotional security, financial security and health, and the interpersonal needs of friendships, intimacy and family.

  • Heterogenous presentation: Differing symptoms and severities across patients with variable site-specific involvement.

https://www.propeciahelp.com/post-finasteride-syndrome-and-propeciahelp/.

You state that implying you must be or have been at the severest end of this disease in all symptomatic domains. Your post history suggests this isn’t the case. You registered on this website 12 days ago. Your first thread posed the question “Do I have it post finasteride syndrome”. You posted things like this

It’s great to hear you’re doing so well, genuinely. However, it’s clear that, in several symptomatic domains, you are at the milder end of the PFS spectrum (which can of course still be life changing and devastating). I can see from some of your other posts that you had a really, really bad time mentally - for which you have my sincere and deep sympathy - but that now that has largely cleared up. You’ve posted

It’s imperative to understand that many patients experience muscle wastage during and after their crash; that fatigue and muscle weakness can be so powerful that even a light jog would be out of the question, much less packing on muscle lifting weights in the gym; and that, for some patients, their symptoms worsen following exercise. It’s great you are able to work out “non stop” and that you attribute your improvement to it but for many PFS patients, even being able to exercise properly isn’t possible.

5 days after signing up here, you made this thread

You also posted

Just to contrast, over two years since crashing, I picked up the kettle the other day to pour the water from it and so feeble is my strength now that it felt as though my arm was being ripped from its socket. This would be astonishing for pretty much any 34 year old male but it’s especially so for me; prior to developing PFS I was a 3-4 times a week gym goer of 6 years and was strong and muscular. I can no longer go to the gym and the most exercise my strength levels and fatigue permit is a good walk.

Again, It’s great that you easing your own anxiety helped resolve some of your sexual dysfunction. However, some patients here have suffered tissue loss to their penis and simply cannot achieve an erection capable of penetration.

There is of course nothing wrong with being positive and I would urge you to continue posting about your improvements should you be fortunate enough to continue to have and/or maintain them. However, I’m coming down quite hard on your “It’s just a matter of putting in the work” for a serious reason. It’s really, really important that as a patient community, everybody recognise that members are in differing states of severity and that what is effective for one, such as vigorous exercise, may not even be physically possible for another. If basic facts about our situation aren’t being fully understood amongst the patients themselves, it’s going to be very tough to get the wider world to fully appreciate what’s happening here.

6 Likes
#25

I’m sorry if I said anything that would make anyone feel less then or down anyone else’s experiences here . I started to recover a little while before I joined this. I was having anxiety about things still thats why my first post stated along the lines of do I have this syndrome . I started running within the same time frame I joined this a noticed huge improvements to my life . I felt happier more drive for life if that makes sense . I know my post are all over the place to by the way… And I did have it pretty bad to start . And I guess you are right I may not have had such a severe case as others do but as you stated it is still debilitating. I did loose a job I almost lost my relationship and I contemplated suicide for a while . And I was not trying to be rude or anything by saying put in the work . I was honestly just trying to be postive . But I do see what you are saying and I understand why you would come down hard on that statement. I apologize. I just wanted to add that for a while I would feel way worse the day after working out . Almost like the life force had drained from my body . So I understand what you mean that people feel worse after a light jog or working out. But sorry to offend anyone . I will think before I post anything that would or could be detrimental to this cause .

3 Likes
#26

I think it’s similar to me.
When PFS first developed the disease, the suicidal impulse was so severe that I couldn’t do anything at home. Fortunately, taking antidepressants helped me, so the other symptoms remained the same, but I had a strong mentality.
After that, I went to the gym and enjoyed weight training. Frankly speaking, I’ve improved a lot in squats, deadlift, and benchpress, and I’ve gained a lot of muscle, but it hasn’t really affected my sexual function.
After COVID-19 was created, I couldn’t go to the gym much, and I started running in the nearby park. I didn’t think about sex function and it was just to lose fat. I was jogging, not a sprint.
After about three months, I got an erection one morning. And I felt that masturbation was harder than usual and the range was longer. And I got a good erection at night. I thought it would be possible to have a relationship with a woman.
Unfortunately, I’m not good at running these days, so I can’t pronounce it well again. So I’m going to run again from today.
I also feel the penis and testicles contract after running. I think you’re going through a similar PFS as me.
Honestly, I don’t know yet whether running affected my sexual function or not yet. But I think running has had a good effect on my current condition, but it doesn’t have a bad influence, so I’ll keep running.

I wish I could get better.

1 Like
#27

Can you have a steady, satisfying sex with a woman after you start running?

#28

Yes ive had more satisfying sex . Ive honesty have been making a recovery for the past two months . Just keep doing what your doing and don’t give up. Running has definitely had a big impact on my depressive symptoms . And in turn for my case that helps with my sexual stuff more . Sounds like you are making some good strides

1 Like
#29

Yes I am having a very satisfying experience that I have missed in the last 4 years. And importantly my refractory period is short and I am not afraid of having it multiple times (as of now refraining from overdoing things). Earlier I was always afraid before sex sessions as you have things back on your mind.

Sprinting has helped a lot and I primarily noticed changes to my penile structure. Although some days you may be off I still do not feel it to be disconnected and is not cold (this was one of the primary reasons for panic attacks during sleep - cold penis, disconnected and rotating on axis)

I feel there is something connected to sprinting and it is working for me. Seeing your experience I am more motivated and I feel this is making a unique difference which exercising (heavy lifting) never helped with sides although improved mood.

One suggestion give by my doc was never to over exercise as whatever test the body generates will be wasted in building muscles. He suggested to do mild exercising to retain the free t in body so it is not utilized by building muscles. So, I am not sure how much it makes sense but nevertheless I will continue sprinting and after 4 months of sprinting I have observed that I am not going back to my sides.

Very happy that you are experiencing positive sides of running. Please also try short bursts of sprint in your routine but do not overdo and restrict to 4 or 5 short bursts of sprint. Please keep sharing your experience

1 Like