Reversing Gene Expression back to Normal

General Discussion
#1

After reading baylor again and researching abnormal expression of genes it seems to be a part of many different problems and diseases…

I’m just wondering is it a game over or a dead end?

It would seem that the disease is driven by an over expression of the androgen receptor but that most of these crazy and wildly variable symptoms are due to the changes in the genes…

It is the clinical manifestation of changes in expression is what we are actually seeing in patients. This is like delving into a black hole in terms of outcomes and how each individual is affected differently.

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#2

From what I understand, the same people that accurately guessed what our root problem was (AR signaling, gene silencing, etc)

are the same people that believe therapeutic options and cures are possible. our only roadblock is the information needed to proceed with getting a solution

im no scientist or technically adept in medical stuff

but many compounds exist that reverse gene silencing. all we need are targets to match with appropriate compounds.

that prostate cancer AR signaling research i keep posting everywhere deals with restoring AR signaling in cancer patients successfully.

what are the chances one of those compounds will be able to help? likely imo

nothing i said is concrete, but all im saying is there is hope

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#3

@Ozeph has some posts in which he lists some strategies to help repair DNA. Particularly, I don’t think it’s related to genetic expression, but those tips are healthy, anyways

#4

I think the most simple answer is we really don’t know. It’s hard to know without knowing exactly what has occurred, and why we’re predisposed vs asymptomatic users, what needs to be fixed and how to fix it. That’s why the admin group has been so persistent in saying that we just need to do that work - to understand the mechanisms involved and why us.

On the Baylor thread, axo made a point that gene therapy is accelerating much more rapidly than we’d originally anticipated even just a few years ago. In 2017-2018 we were talking about a 10 year timeline for CRISPR to be trialled on humans, but even things like this are already occurring. There are billions being invested in this technology and it could be useful in one day curing PFS also.

There is also the possibility that PFS could be treated using existing substances or technologies. Again, we just need to do the work.

We hope, after many delays, that our charity is only weeks away from being registered and we’ll have some exciting news to follow.

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#5

It’s crazy that after years of developing pfs that new issues just arise like Blepharitis in my eyes now…How the disease changes year after year with crazy symptoms continuing while new ones are added…

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#6

I don’t know if my AR are going back to being expressed normally, surely a little, but I know the epigenetic damage done to my face by a severe sunburn in 1991 is being repaired. The marks I had in my face are epigenetic in nature according to Dr. David Sinclair, and they have 80% faded away. A dermatologist told me it was impossible to repair.

Sexually, all symptoms are gone and my refractory period between 2 orgasm has shrunk to about an hour. Sensitivity is normal, sex drive is a little low but consistent with my age (I’m more horny than friends of my age).

The joy of living has come back. I’m singing in my head, I feel genuine pleasures in life and I care for others. Anhedonia is gone and the remains of that one is more easily noticed when it’s gone than while having it.

Sleep, my main issue, is improving. A week ago, for the first time since I crashed, I got up to pee during the night and could go back to sleep after. I haven’t been able to sleep again after getting up since before I crashed.

I believe in two or three years, I should be able to sleep normally and without meds and supplements.

I’m still a strong believer of Dr. Sinclair’s natural techniques (but not his drug approach) and I think it goes wonderfully well with the keto diet. Epigenetic damage is a major cause of aging and this approach has taken 15 years off my body and face. At 53, I look 35.

I really wish others can achieve similar results, with this technique or otherwise. Only the results are important.

There is hope !

I wish you all the best !

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#7

Hey ozeph. Do you actually feel the urge for sex, and how many times per week/day, would you say?

#8

I feel a need for sex every three days but I can do it everyday. After a week, I really feel the need.

I practice stoicism. I’m Ok to feel discomfort, almost grateful for I know it increases my strength. I don’t always rush to have sex whenever I feel the need. I like to delay and stay horny. It’s a great way to enhance all male instincts: need for success, prosperity, discipline etc… Some businessmen or athlete advocate to not have sex for these reasons. Google it !

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#9

No clue. But I would estimate that finasteride caused a cascade, where one thing changed which caused other things to change etc.

If you reverse the most important part (lets say androgen receptor expression) then I would guess a cascade back to normal might occur. I.e. the body will reverse all of the changes that he made to adapt to finasteride.

So we dont have to change back everything, just the key part and the rest might happen by its own.

Takes? :smiley:

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#10

I’m trying this theory I read on this site:

If it was androgen inhibition therapy (aka: taking fin) that made our AR hyper-expressed in order to capture the little androgen that would still be there, then maybe increasing androgen would make the body realize the AR are over-expressed and tuned them down ?

Some people are taking hormone replacement therapy. I’m thinking something more natural: phyto-androgen in plants. I did cycle androgen herbs for a while. I know I actually sleep better without them, and they give me brain fog. But the theory goes, when you raise androgen, you’ll feel like shit until the AR reverse back to a more normal level.

I don’t know if there’s any truth in this, but I know my morning wood wakes me up every morning and that can only be due to an androgen spike (IMO). So I’m willing to try. Let’s see what happens.

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#13

Why mess with more herbs if you’re feeling recovered?

#14

Sorry for the late reply.

I’m carefully messing with those herbs, if I may say. I only take one pill in the morning. I’m seeing a difference: it seems Horny goat weed is now too strong for me and I sleep bad with it. I stopped it, and if I take it again, I will cut in half.
Tribullus terrestris gives me the strongest body odors since I crashed. It didn’t at all 3 years ago, then a little, but it’s always been horny goat weed that would give me the strongest body odors after they started coming back. Now, horny goat shoots too high and I actually have zero odors on it, while terrestris gives me way more than before. Without herbs, I have some body odors, not very strong. However, It’s the first time since I crash that I notice body odors without taking any androgen herbs so my body is still moving in the right direction. It’s now quite slow compared to the speed I was eliminating symptoms when I started the diet 3 years+ ago.

But to answer your question: because it’s androgen deprivation that made our AR over expressed to compensate and I believe (or at least want to test) if taking extra androgen and overwhelming the AR in a reasonable way may de-sensitize them. For this, I’ll have to go through some discomfort, but considering I have so little symptom and I’m quite stable, it just means nights are a little more restless. If I stop the herbs, I sleep better the next day and back to normal in 3 days.

Beside, quite a few guys had success with androgen herbs so I want to test. I think I’m stable enough to not get worst if I don’t do anything rash, if I’m patient and methodic and go easy in dosing up the herbs. (or down)

So far the results are revealing.

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#15

No problem at all- thanks for even answering. You’ve been super helpful on this forum.
So if you had to give advice on how to beat pfs, your main mantra is diet correct? I’ve seen you mention complete carnivore as well as ketosis by including some carbs as veggies- which is better? You’ve also mentioned that you were on a tonnnn of supplements while dieting- are of the opinion that they contributed and following just a diet protocol might not be very helpful?

I read an article on Jordan Peterson’s daughter and her recovery and it seems…dubious to say the least. Especially when she mentioned having pepper on her steak brought her symptoms back, as well as the fast that while she can’t tolerate anything besides beef, salt, and water, she can also somehow drink alcohol.
I am really starting to buy into the whole diet fad especially since I’ve been diagnosed with a ton of random food allergies after my pfs started, but this sort of thing makes me confused.

If you could boil down your advice on what we should do, along with a tenuous timetable for expected recovery, what would it look like?

#16

Diet is the main thing, by far. Most supplements I take are vitamins and minerals. I did cut a lot, I should revise that section on my regimen.

Carnivore + ketogenic is the diet I’m doing. That’s carnivore but with an accent on animal fat and no more than maybe 300gr of lean meat. I’m not cutting calories, but after a year or so, I started eating only once a day. A big meal… I’ve been on it for 3+ years so I can now have regular healthy food sometimes and it won’t make a difference. But to begin with, with all the allergies I had, it was carnivore with lots of fat.

Time wise, it took most energy, digestion and neurological symptoms away in the first few weeks. It takes 3-6 months to be fully fat adapted. Sexual symptoms started getting better starting at 9 months and at 2 1/2 years everything was gone except insomnia.

I don’t know your symptoms, and I don’t know what kind of improvement you can expect. Most people who do this diet see at least some improvements. Some, like me, said this diet is what made the most changes in their life.

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#17

That’s been my experience too Holyhead - that being new symptoms added to the old ones. It feels like a losing battle. My vision and joints are the latest casualties.

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#18

My posts are specifically related to gene expression. That’s what epigenetic is. Our DNA did not change, our epigenome did. If it was DNA, it would be pretty much game over but there are things that can be done to fix the epigenome.

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#19

Hi @Ozeph I hope you can offer me views or suggestions as i set out my situation,

Due to worsening pfs and desperation I tried a few things which have often been deemed as quite safe for sufferers. I tried wellbutrin and cailis separately and in small amounts. Both caused an immediate increase in penis weight and awareness of muscles and a partial return in strength negatively my urine became even darker with aggression extreme anxiety and further heightened suicidal ideation so I stopped I ended up on the crisis line and it took close to a full week to return to my shitty baseline. Last May I reluctantly tried T gel on the back of advice from my endo that also caused these symptoms to a greater degree these symptoms were preceded by a wonderful lift in mood and interest in women. In August after my 2nd covid vacc I had a return of strength, lift in mood it lasted a week then dropped off it wasn’t followed by a mini crash or anything negative. I also tried devils claw ‘a natural anti inflamm’. and experienced an upturn for a dew days which was followed by a mini crash. I’m intolernt to most foods and react to a lot of the foods you’ve suggested. Even ghea nails me. I seem to be better with carbs particularly potatoes . I fast one day per week. My urine becomes very dark after eating t gel brought on the permanent worsening of even darker urine. Despite waiting things out for years I simply got worse which is why i tried some stuff “less risky” I’m continuing to lose strength, tissue from everywhere and my organis seem to be losing more functionality with time My skeleton is in global pain I have muscle pain my limbs are painfully thin. I can go 5 days without passing a stool my sight is getting worse and my autonomic system is misfiring. When I’ve had improvements my toilet habits also get back to normal. I was also utilising alcohol 'white wine or gin" as these brought improvements when I started drinking again. A few glasses once per week but these effects have also ebbed with time. I had a couple last night after having a few hellish days. My emotional state has also worsened with time though I’m not in the extremes as often due to cutting out most of the triggers. My intellect, thought processes have also deteriorated. Suicide and anhedonia follow me everywhere. I think my longterm and repeated use of fin is what’s made my pfs resistant and progressive. Your improvements and knowledge of the epigenetics and science wjth natural approaches are what brings me to you for some advice. Some of us simply can’t wait for a treatment which I’m confident will land one day. But each day is like an eternity with the devil himself. I continue to do everything I can but neurosteroids seem to be slowly dropping in numbers ttoo. Thanks for your time Lazarus

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#20

Hi @LazarusRy

I really feel for you. I know how it is to have bad days, wishing it was time to sleep, only to have a horrible night without sleep and then another miserable day. I can’t imagine being years like that. You’re displaying lots of resilience. It’s all to your honor ! I send you by best thoughts.

According to what I read, cyanobacteria, one of the first life form on this planet, developed sirtuin proteins to repair their epigenome when facing survival conditions. those sirtuin proteins were not generated in situation of abundance, reproduction was preferred in those cases.
Most current life forms are descendants of those cyanobacteria and retained this ability to generate sirtuin proteins in situations of survival. I understand the you would rightly consider yourself in a situation of survival, but for human cells, the signals are more primitive: extreme cold, extreme heat, lack of food, lack of carbs, getting out of breath etc…I made a whole list under Tricks to repair the Epigenome

With modern life, with constant influx of carbs, comfortable temperature, enough food, no predators to run out of breath from, our body consider itself in abundance and is reproducing cells and for lots of people it accumulates fat as well.

I stumbled by luck and later understood that a carnivore / ketogenic diet, IMHO was making conditions favorable for the tricks listed above to trigger the production of sirtuin proteins, some of which are responsible of repairing the epigenome. That is, repairing damaged gene expression.

I’m currently experimenting with some phyto-androgen from herbs and I notice that if I overshoot, I get too much androgen and I have anxiety, brain fog etc… I think that’s what’s happening when you use T gel and other chemicals. You are in a fragile state. If it was me, I would avoid chemicals and androgen for the moment.

As you know, I’m not an expert nor a medical practitioner. Under the advise of Axolotl, I started studying the epigenome and came to the conclusion that the body needs to be made ready, in the most natural way possible, to sustain some acute but temporary stress that would trigger the production of sirtuin proteins (maybe I’m wrong. I’m showing improvements but I cannot know for sure it’s due to what I’m doing)

I’m not saying it will work for you, nor am I suggesting you try this. But I’ll tell you what i did as additional ideas of what people have tried.
If you read the articles in the thread above, you’ll see that being in a state of ketosis (aka on a ketogenic diet) produces a lot of BetaHydroButyrate (BHB) which are used as fuel and uses 4 times less Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) which are used by the cells to burn either glucose or BHB as a source of energy (we can also burn aceto acetate at a zero NAD+ cost). NAD+ are made from the amino acid L-Tryptophan and nicotinamide (Vitamin B3).
Burning ketone bodies uses 5 times less NAD+ than burning carbs, which leaves an excess of NAD+ which, as I understand it, act in synergy with BHB and sirtuin proteins to repair the epigenome if the proper triggers are present to signal the body it’s time to repair, not reproduce.

So I went on a strict carnivore diet at first, eating only fat cuts of beef with butter and salt. (also water of course, but nothing else). The first week is hard so I had to cheat with a few grams of carbs here and there just to make sure I wouldn’t give up. On the second week, my digestion started working again, and I could align thoughts and sentences properly, all of which was pretty disabled before the diet. I later made efforts to trigger repairs with the aforementioned tricks.

That’s how I started to regain strength, being able to climb stairs or drive my car. I did other things, but that’s the main component. I now eat some plant, have most of my fat intake from palm oil and eat only one time a day. If you show interest in the idea, I can detail more. But please read all the post I linked above. It has lots of info and references.

I think there is reasons for hope, but we have to go deep, back to the primitive repair mechanisms from when we were cyanobacteria.

I wish you the best and will send you positive thoughts for recovery in the following days.

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#21

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly and for the detailed response @Ozeph I’ll read through/study what you’ve provided and will come back to you.

Regards
LAZ

#22

I’ll PM you going forward if that’s OK @Ozeph