recovery guide and questions

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#1

I am probably going to recommend a herb called Ashwagandha to everyone here and I’ve been taking some the recommendations on this website and elsewhere.

  1. exercise (aerobic and sweaty)
  2. high zinc and magnesium intake
  4. Ashwagandha
  5. cruciferous (broccoli and cauliflower in my case) vegetables
  6. reduce/eliminate wheat intake
  7. I’m considering using Tylenol PM when I can’t go to sleep
  8. I have lots of Ciprofloxin sitting here which I was supposed to be used after a surgery I had, so I’m wondering how it is beneficial

Since there’s no central, authoritative place on this site (not that I expect one) where one can find a ‘guide’ to post-Fin recovery, I’m wondering if there’s anything we could do to better synthesize/organize the information on this site.

My questions for you out there are:

  1. What are the benefits and the cause of efficacy in taking anti-biotics during post-Fin recovery?
  2. Regarding prostatitis, what are the proven means for you and which do you advise against? SHould Saw Palmetto be avoided? is a moderate amount O.K.? What about pumpkin seeds or pygeum?
  3. For those of you who have made a full recovery, are do you believe that you recovered partly because you are not overweight and you get a good amount of aerobic exercise? or, were supplements the factor that seemed to tip things in your favour?
  4. For those of you who’ve taken Xyrem (the floor stripper, testosterone upping chemical?) do you feel you made the correct choice in taking it?

I don’t know if I’ve asked all that I want to just now (brain fog?). I’ll add when I have the motivation to do so again.

Just one last thing: I had some SEVERE digestion and energy problems about 7 years ago which led me to spend a lot of money on various means of recovery. I found that I had some heavy metal toxicity and perhaps some parasites. To this day, I don’t know the cause. Anyway, on my path to recovery, the things that seemed to help me the most were: hot yoga (lots of sweating), other exercise, Ashwagandha, colon hydrotherapy, and chelation therapy—also, I had body tuning done with drums which had a short-lived effect akin to the colon hydrotherapy.

I believe that Ashwagandha was one of the first things that started my recovery and helped to sustain my mood, energy, and daily rhythms. It minimized anxiety. I know some of you are likely skeptical of herbs, so I am going to try reporting back to you on this site in a month or so. I have one pound of Ashwagandha right now. I just began using it again (first time in years) yesterday. I nearly used Tylenol PM last night, but instead decided to see what would happen after just having taken the Ashwagandha. I haven’t gone to sleep so easily in weeks or maybe over a month. I dropped finasteride on approx. January 14th-15th of this year.

Any further recommendations from you regarding recovery plan(s)/regimens are welcome. Thank you.

#2

Finasteride? Saw Palmetto? Ill advised, that would be like kindly asking to be shot in the stomach again. If there is swelling it needs to be examined not self-treated. I highly doubt Saw Palmetto will help our side effects.

Regarding sleep, Benadryl (diphenhydramine) never really had a great effect in me, but NyQuil (dextromethorphan) occasionally gave me what I needed for a good brain-state - very drowsy and able to sleep. If you use this, use the type without acetaminophen; you may want to take two capfulls, and with the extra chemical it’s said to potentially tax the liver. It can be a good short-term idea if you really need to sleep. And if that fails, Phenibut (powdered) has done astoundingly well at making sure that when I sleep, it’s good sleep.

#3

For those interested, I suggest taking Ashwagandha to help cope with any screwed up biorhythms you may be experiencing, anxiety, and particuliarly sleep disorders.

I believe Ashwagandha was helped me. I’ve taken 2-3 tablespoons in powdered form every day and eaten it on rice during a meal.

The effects may be slow and undramatic, but I think over time you will notice a difference. Perhaps a bettter choice than some drugs people have used for sleeping disorders.

Try not to pay more than $20 for one pound of powder.

#4

Thone,

After getting in shape for about a year via 3 to 4 times/week cardio workouts and light weightlifting I switched to interval training. This helped for awhile as in part it causes you to release growth hormone (something that is inhibited when Fin causes secondary hypogonadism and consequent low T). The effects of interval training start to wane after a few months (at least in my case).

I went the herbal/vitamin route for many months. Quercetin is helpful for prostatis and nasal allergies although the body does need a break from it (I don’t take it during winter). I will not go near Saw Palmetto due to its remotely similar effects to fin.

Zinc can cause a copper imbalance. My new/current doc recommends taking a small dose (~ 30 mg in my case) every other or every third day to avoid copper imbalance and to avoid the body becoming desensitized to it. When taken in combination with magnesium (citrate for better absorption) and B6 it can give a boost to testosterone. Be very careful with non-proxidine based high absorption B6, as it crosses the blood/brain barrier directly. I never took for than 25 mg/day of this form (75 mg is the max safe limit IIRC)

Consider nettle root (not leaf) extract for its ability to reduce SHBG and prostatis. While increasing free T is a good thing, nettle is also a known 5 alpha reductase inhibitor so I would recommend staying away from it.

None of the herbal or vitamin approaches allowed for long term permanent recovery although there were glipses/short periods of a day or a week of the better part of a month here or there. . I have had the best luck so far with low dose clomiphene citrate (see the Clomid recovery thread).

kazman

#5

I have noticed that IF I’m able to get restful sleep, a lot of symptoms decrease. There have even been dreams that verge on the erotic or sexual.

At the moment, I’m only trying to enjoy things (dopamine, please). I’m not even trying enough to get the sleep I need because other things in my life have made my health poor for the past two years (Fractured foot and ankle which have never healed back to normal, and nasal problems).

I wonder if others who’ve had long-term effects have experienced a progressive flattening of emotions, while–perhaps rather paradoxically–feeling some endless sorrow. A lot of bad things have happened in my life since May 2007 and I’m having a difficult time distinguishing FIN “side effects” from the effects of so many emotionally destructive events in my recent years/months.

#6

Tbone,

I have read conflicting reports about ashwagandha root. Some say it is good for energy and others say it is good for sleep. I can’t see how it can do both. What has your experience with the herb been like? I have purchased one pound of powder and am wondering what direction to take with it…

#7

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#8

No disrespect, but your post has nothing to do with my question, so I hope it wasn’t directed towards me.

As far as comments like “Ashwaghanda is a stress/adaptogen herb.” Anyone can get that information by doing a minimal amount of research. I am asking for his personal experience with it, that’s all.

#9

Ashwagandha seems to be helping me, but I have only taken it a few times. I bought it at a local vitamin store in capsule form. It says to take one three times a day. I’ll stay on it and see if things continue to improve for me.

#10

Joetz,

What dosages are you taking? Do you notice any energy or lethargy afterwords? When you say you think it is helping, what exactly does that mean?

#11

I think that if you take the correct amount, it will help your deep sleep cycle and may give you more sexual energy. however, i’m not inclined to believe that the increase in sexual energy is enough to make Mr. Limpy fully hard again and make one’s balls full again.

Perhaps with running and a daily dosage of Ashwagandha will help tho. I cannot run at this time.

#12

450 mg 3 times a day. I felt very sick the first few times I took it because I took it without food. If I take it with a meal I don’t get the nausea and it seems to be helping a little bit. No miracles though.

#13

Maybe you’re right about taking it without food.

Joetz, do you exercise daily? Are you getting better sleep?

Yeah, I don’t think there are any short-term miracles with Ashwagandha. When I recovered from my problems years ago, I was getting a lot more exercise than I am currently. biking and soccer and ultimate frisbee, some wrestling.

I just had a surgery last month which has put me in depression for the first time in this life. My nasal problems combined with foot and now the post-FIN chemistry problems have got me feeling REALLY bad… I don’t think I’ve seen the worst of it and I’m really scared right now.

So, ashwagandha’s not enough to really help me at the moment because I don’t get enough exercise and my mind is going crazy. Don’t want to eat much (mainly because I’m lonely and the food here sucks), I can’t sleep well, I don’t get enough exercise, I can’t breathe, I have no social life, I’m not interested in anything whatsoever, and thoughts about the recent past (last 4 years) are making me break down and panic.

so, as for Ashwagandha and post-FIN commmentary, I don’t feel I should comment further at this time.

#14

I’m so sorry for taking so long to respond. I must have missed your reply somehow. In response to your questions, other than trying to take walks and be outside, I’m not exercising regularly. I remember how when I was in high school I used to do moderate weight lifting and bulk up quite a bit and feel amazing after workouts. Since I destroyed my entire endocrinological system with finasteride, I haven’t been able to really make any kind of gains or progress in the gym so I don’t work out that much anymore.

Ashwagandha is by no means any kind of miracle, but it did help me a little bit.

Regarding sleep, well, that was never really a big problem for me like it is for some of the other guys here. I sleep ok, but I don’t have dreams anymore.

#15

Psychology and conventional suggest that sleep without dreaming is not rejuvenative/regenerative sleep. there is the question of whether you wake with your responsibilities on your mind, your waking life anxieties and whether your dream memories are immediately flushed away

I understand what you say about weightlifting. However, the problem I have with ‘moderate weightlifting’ is that it doesn’t pump the abdomen enough. When I’m able in the future, I intend to do some intense cardio exercise that will make my legs and abdomen buttocks and back all suffer.

I would only use weightlifting now to keep my shoulders, back, and neck a little strong and loose (free from tension/anxiety).

#16

Specify please :stuck_out_tongue:! How exactly does it play an importance what’s on my mind when I wake up?
Sometimes I wake up with responsibilities, but usually my brain is so foggy that it takes half an hour to figure out where I am and what I am (and then comes the anxiety because I fool so stupid and brain dead :frowning:).

#17

Firstly, the reason I mentioned your thoughts when waking is that you may never know whether you have been dreaming if you immediately forget your dreams upon waking and resume your daily routine. Dreaming CAN be an indication of good sleep because it occurs during REM sleep.

I’ll leave it up to you look up information on sleep because all I have here is a Psychology textbook. I don’t like reading too much off the WWW myself.

One researcher’s name is Tobler (2005), some others: Borbely and Ackermann, Dinges, and Bonnet (2005)… Apparently, there were some productive sleep restriction (not deprivation) studies done early in this decade.

Tobler talks about REM REBOUND where subjects have been REM deprived as researchers have woken them repeatedly to prevent REM sleep (AND NREM sleep) from taking place. AFterward, the researchers allowed the subjects to sleep normally. During this time of normal sleep, with no interruptions, the subjects exhibited REM and NREM REBOUND. They spent 50% MORE time in REM sleep than normal.

Tobler’s observations support the “restorative theory of sleep,” which I imagine you can find online.

#18

I’ve found that interesting, but… rejuvenative of what, I wonder. Brain activity? Neurochems? Or simply elimination of fatigue…? Too vague for me.

#19

there isn’t enough known about sleep and its effects on the body.

I’m aiming improve my health with exercise and for a normal sleep pattern with adequate REM sleep in the future.

Although it is also vague (and I don’t think that science is going to aid our sleep effectively), you can see Van Cauter, Leproult, and Plat mentioned on the wikipedia page about sleep:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#Restoration

#20

I have vivid dreams every night and remember exactly what happenned even If I wake up early and decide to sleep for another hour I dream again in that hour. Funny enough my sleep is poor and not that rejuvinating and am still suffering mental side effects from this drug.
I am a strong believer that we all have unique problems and yet collectivly we share similiar side effects we each have to find what works for us.