Recent Labs - Please advise for possible hormone treatment

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

Hey guys,

I had my bloodwork come back after really going downhill the past couple of months. Complete change of body composition, softening of skin, total changes in body hair, loss of hair pigmentation, total muscle shutdown, shaking and spasming muscles, and total exercise intolerance. Also cold limbs, hands and arms lose feeling, when I wash my hands under water they actually sting. Steady twitching/ locking of abdominal muscles for 2-3 weeks now.

WBC - 5.3 (3.4-10.8)
RBC - 5.33 (4.14-5.80)
Hemoglobin - 16.0 (13.0 - 17.7)
Hematocrit - 46.7 (37.5 - 51.0)
Lymphs (Absolute) -1.4 (0.7 - 3.1)
Glucose - 82 (65-99)
BUN - 11 (6-20)
Creatinine - 1.05 (0.76 - 1.27)
Sodium - 142 (134 - 144)
Albumin - 5.1 (3.5 - 5.5)
Globulin - 2.0 (1.5-4.5)
A/G Ratio - 2.6 (1.2 - 2.2) - HIGH
Bilirubin, Total - 1.0 (0.0 - 1.2)
Alkaline Phosphatase - 62 (39 - 117)
AST (SGOT) - 14 - (0-40)
AST (SGPT) - 11 (0-44)

Hormones
Folate, Serum - 17.5 (>3.0)
Cortisol - 22.2 (6.2 - 19.4) - HIGH
TSH - 1.910 (0.450 - 4.500)
LH - 3.7 (1.7-8.6)
FSH - 2.6 (1.5 - 12.4)
Prolactin - 12.4 (4.0 - 15.2)
Estradiol - 12.7 (7.6 - 42.6) WAS 26 A MONTH AGO
Vitamin B12 - 576 (232 - 1245)
Progesterone - 0.3 (0.0 - 0.5)
SHBG - 119.7 (16.5 - 55.9) VERY HIGH
Testosterone, Total - 584 (264 - 916) WAS 860 A MONTH AGO
Testosterone, Free - 7.8 (9.3 - 26.5) WAS 16+ A MONTH AGO
Estrone - 92 (15-65) VERY HIGH, WAS 75 A MONTH AGO
Estrogens, Total - 111 (40-115 pg/mL)
Vitamin D - 60.4 (19.9 - 79.3)

If you guys could give any advice on what the next step might be. I saw the endocrinologist last week and showed her some research and it seems she truly believes the Finasteride has caused this damage, I showed her pictures of me prior to taking the medication. She wrote a prescription for Clomid to boost the testosterone, and also mentioned Amridex if needed. My concerns are I have had a total androgen shutdown, Estrogenic effects have completely taken over my body, and I am not sure if Clomid or Amridex are a safe option for me. Any advice or outlook is much appreciated. Many of you have helped me tons already.

Best wishes for all of us,

Damon

#2

Probably not good idea to touch Arimidex as you Estradiol is already at the low end. Dunno how clomid works thoā€¦ Does it inhibit E2?

#3

From what Iā€™ve read it blocks the affects of Estrogen at the pituitary. It tricks the body into thinking it has less estrogen than it does, stimulating endogenous testosterone production, but also increasing Estrogen with it a lot of times. I guess what matters here is that I simply donā€™t have anything antagonizing Estrogen lol, my androgen profile has completely shut off. I just want my fucking life back manā€¦

@Mew @Dubya_B @awor Any thoughts based on labs? I understand nobody has the answer here, itā€™s just guess and check.

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#4

Yeah, I feel you man! Want to get my life back too, over 2 years of my life are already gone, wasted because of that shitty herb Saw Palmetto

#5

@Jaime

This was the metabolic & hormonal panel I had done about a month ago.

#6

I see. The metabolic panel doesnā€™t really show anything outstanding. I donā€™t know what the high A/G ratio means and Google isnā€™t helpful either.

The biggest thing that sticks out to me is the low free T, low E2 , and very high SHBG. My SHBG is high (55), but yours is double that!

#7

Thereā€™s posts on here about the drug Danazol lowering shbg and increasing free T. But honestly I donā€™t know anything about the drug you would have to look into it and get others opinions I have no clue if itā€™s even safe or not.

#8

@Dknighten

Those blood results could literally be mineā€¦ nearly exactly the same values as far as E2, TT, FT and SHBG go. Itā€™s so similar itā€™s scary

Iā€™ve started on TRT 140mg/week + HCG to see what getting my free test up a bit will do. Weā€™ll see I guess.

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#9

@ncsugrad

Any progress with the hormone treatment?

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#10

Yes, actually. Iā€™ve been taking 150mg/week of testosterone for the last 6 or 8 weeks consistently and the last week or so Iā€™ve started feeling better. I have been able to have morning sex, and even QUICK morning sex at that (at my worst it was next to impossible for me to get finished in the morning no matter what)

And Iā€™ve been able to have normal, quickā€™ish sex a few days in a row without issues. Iā€™ve gone from having to really try and really concentrate in order to ā€œfinishā€ to now sometimes Iā€™m having to try to stop it from happening, which is really, really nice. I know quick isnt the word most guys would want associated with their sex sessions, but trust me, after dealing with anorgasmia I am THRILLED to be quick sometimes, haha.

Iā€™m switching over to a new testosterone cream (NOT gel) that most people seem to love, so we will see how that goes. Iā€™m tired of giving myself shots 3x a week and a lot of people are getting better results from the cream than even injections. More DHT, less estrogen

Anywaysā€“thatā€™s the short version of whatā€™s been going on for me. It HAS helped, but I think I need a higher dose and it took every bit of 6 or 7 weeks before I really was starting to feel better. I am still not 100% but hope with the increase in levels the cream should give me that I will keep improving over the next month or two.

#11

Iā€™m glad to hear this man. Good for you!! I hope it keeps improving. Oddly enough, with all the crazy body changes I have had, my libido and orgasm quality is still intact. My rubbery, feminine skin and complete loss of muscle tone is my main concern, also my constant disconnected brain fog. Did any of these symptoms improve for you with hormone treatment?

#12

I know itā€™s late, but I donā€™t think clomid would benefit you in this situation at all. In fact in your situation it would make you worse. Yes, clomid does increase total testosterone, but shbg as well. This is because clomid is a racemic mixture of zuclomiphene and enclomiohene. It is a mixed agonist/antagonist of the ER. zuclomiphene is the agonistic enantiomer in the mixture, and agonism of ER receptors will increase shbg even more and it is already through the roof in your situation. If i were you i would try hcg. It will lower shbg, increase testosterone and progesterone. Maybe you would feel better off of it. Speak to your doctor.

#13

Do your self a favor and learn from people that have been in this hell for a long time

Donā€™t take Clomid. Donā€™t take Armidex . The doctors are clueless and should spend time on these forums to see how Clomid and armidex can make you a lot worse

Based on these labs you donā€™t have a total androgen shutdown. In fact your LH and total T are normal ā€¦

What it looks like to me is that your body is raising SHBG and binding most of the free testosterone before it hits the androgen receptors. Your body probable lowers estradiol probable to match the low amount of testosterone making it to the androgen receptors. Obviously as we know men probable need androgens agonizing the androgen receptors and estradiol agonizing Era and Erb to have normal sexual function.

Your Estrone is probable accumulating because body is lowering its conversion to estradiol

We know the solution is NOT to force estradiol and androgens on the estrogen and androgen receptors. So donā€™t take TRT. If you donā€™t respond to mid range testosterone why would you respond to ā€œmore of itā€. Makes no sense. No one gets better from doing that . Most get worse . Donā€™t block estrogen in the brain with Clomid to trick your body info surging LH . You will be forcing high testosterone which again by your body already binding most of the Testosterone you already have with SHBG makes no sense to do. Ask your doctor to go figure out why your body is binding most of your normal range T before it binds to the androgen receptors instead of throwing crap at you that will make your suffering worse

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#14

Proviron would lower your SHGB and increase your Free T. It might be worth a try. If your T levels continue to drop I would consider TRT, Proviron, and HCG if you are young and want to preserve fertility. If you are not in the UK Proviron might be hard to get. PM me if you want a source.

#15

Exact opposite of what Iā€™m proposing he does and why Iā€™m proposing he does it

But the more options the better .

I just personally think that heā€™s going down a crap shoot if he does what you are telling him to do . If he was producing actual low amounts of androgens which heā€™s not I would say he could very much be one of these guys who just has low T and does not even have PFS. But this is not the case. Primary or secondary hypogonadism and normal T with high SHBG and low free T are two completely different things. I have seen it in other peoples labs who have PFS. The body binds high amounts of androgens for some reason. Now that we are into urine testing we see more evidence of what Iā€™m getting at . High amounts of androgens in the urine in PFS maybe because the body is excreting the androgens. Look at my saliva DHT. Saliva represents free hormones. Iā€™m flagged high in plasma DHT and Iā€™m not high in saliva DHT. Decent amount of evidence to support what Iā€™m getting at

We have JoeKool who was cured with HCG and although his recovery is one hundred percent real I believe that JoeKool was cured by HCG due to its impact on neurosteriods

Other then this and the epic case of justquitdut who had mild PFS no real recovery that Iā€™m aware of ever took place from TRT or Proviron. And justquitdut also took cortisol with the cock tail of TRT stuff that he was doing. Justquitdutā€™s main issue were loss of body mass which a cock tail of TRT stuff cured. He had mild PFS . Pretty obvious

Maybe you will respond with a TRT or proviron recovery . If you do they are still far few between and I stand by my opinion

#16

Really nowā€¦ sounds like word salad to me.

#17

I donā€™t think so

Obviously itā€™s theory but itā€™s values on paper that back it opposed to rambling nonsense like most PFS theories

If Iā€™m wrong about high androgens in the urine supporting what Iā€™m proposing there are still these guys test results that show he just mysteriously has high SHBG binding most of his other wise normal T. And then my point about total DHT VS free DHT that I see in my self still applies

And then we all have high androgens and Allopregnanolone in our urine so far on the ZRT tests .

I think all together itā€™s telling us something. Or at least enough to know that taking androgens is a bad idea

#18

How does ā€˜salivaā€™ represent ā€˜free hormonesā€™?

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#19

Simple google search:

A better choice for clinicians and patients

Saliva contains unbound, bioavailable hormones . Therefore, salivary concentrations better represent circulating levels of free hormones , 1which are likely to affect the body and be responsible for symptoms related to excessive or deficient hormone levels.Sep 9, 2017

Iā€™ll post better source . Give me a few min

More sources:

#20

@orthogs

Last but certainly not least . This ones for you bud

ā€œSaliva can be an excellent alternative diagnostic material in determination of hormone concentration substituting the routinely used serum, plasma and urine. Particularly useful is the measurement of nonconjugated steroid hormones and cyclic amines (melatonin), the concentration of which is not dependent on saliva production, and correlates well with hormone concentration in blood. In routine laboratory diagnostic saliva is mainly used for multiple measurement of hormone concentration (establishing of diurnal cycle, monitoring the function of endocrine system with dynamic tests ex. Synacthen and dexamethasone), monitoring the concentration and metabolism of hormones used as a drugs (hormone replacement therapy) or when the determination of free (bioactive) fraction of hormone is required. Noninvasive saliva collection at patientā€™s home, which does not need medical staff assistance, may reduce the costs of hormonal diagnostics in specialty clinics and hospitalsā€

Hope Iā€™m not hurting your ego too much ā€¦LOL same side same fight . Just busting balls

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