where is the video?
Wow, discrediting me and insulting me because of a typo. How classy.
I donât see why you guys are still arguing over this. If you really think it is prostate inflammation then go get it treated plain and simple. Go get a fugging MRI of your prostate if thats what it takes⌠I donât see why people are on here trying to convince other people. If you get treated and it works come back here and say so if not then leave it be or come back and say it didnât work simple as that. Lots of docâs treat prostate issues and there are many many tests that can be done to check for prostate problems besides the old PSA. Check urine for bacteria, ultra-sound and so on.
I remember when people first started talking about this âideaâ last year and one guy was basically arguing with me to convince me of its validity and that maybe I should fly to fuggin Greece to see some doc. Yeah, thats when I checked out on that conversation. Prostate stuff is relatively simple compared with some of the other stuff being looked into. Like I said if your so adamant about it go get it checked out take a antibiotic or take a anti-fungal or whatever.
Personally I think this is the wrong âideaâ for one very simple reason. People with prostate problems are usually in some sort of pain in the prostate area and have trouble peeing I donât have that. And this âtheoryâ doesnât really explain the mental issues that well⌠it tries to, by saying disrupting 5ar2 in the prostate would alter hormone metabolism in the brain. But once again nothing really to back that up.
This works the same the other way round: Why are some guys SO obsessed with this, and keep coming back, trying to convince us (the ones with a prostate problem) that this is not our problem?
I donât argue them, but I keep coming on this forum, first because Iâm suscribed and the emails keep popping in, and second, because I got the info of checking my prostate THANKS to this thread, so since theres other guys with prostate problems here, try to state a CLEAR MESSAGE ABOUT PROSTATITIS, because it could be a good path for others to explore too.
What you say about prostatitis is wrong. I have it, but it doesnât hurt. It hurt on the rectal exam, but Iâm not in pain. I donât have to pee often.
What people confuse is benign prostatic hyperplasia (the natural process of an enlarged prostate; THE ORIGINAL REASON for creating finasterideâŚ) and inflamation in the prostate. They are related, since people with BPH also have prostatitis, but no the other way round.
I said this simple:
Well I didnât understand that all your english grammer is a little spotty in some places. Regardless did getting your prostate fixed, fix all your finasteride problems?
If it was possible to get the prostate fixed so easily then there would be no cancer.
There isnât anyone that can âFIXâ your prostate just like that. There are methods to improve your condition and improve whatever this affects, mostly erectile function, sensitivity etc etc but not a total fix in all cases.
Massaging and months of use of antibiotics can relief symptoms and improve you to a better functioning point, but still killing pathogens like chlamydia or staph,enterococcus aureus is like trying to shoot down a stealth plane with a sling.
So if you think prostatitis is a simple disease, think again. It is a killer disease, thats why it progresses to cancer in many cases.
Did finasteride made our prostates vulnerable? I think it did. Maybe it did many other things too. I concentrate on that because i have clear evidence that treating the prostate inflammation has improved my hormone profile and erections. The rest i donât understand, all that insensitivity issues because i donât feel them on me.
Prostatitis is not to be confused with prostate enlargement that you get from too much dht. That is a different story. Here we deal with the inflammation inside and surrounding the prostate, it co-exists with some degree of overgrowth but not necessarily. You can have a 14 cc prostate and still be completely or mostly inflammed. If your sensory nerves attached to the prostate have been affected (which is mostly the case in prostatitis) then you feel no sensitivity in your penis. You can not hold an erection because the signal transmission is depleted. This is number one case of prostate inflammation. Drop of sensitivity in penile tissue. Other issues may involve less passage of blood flow through the prostate. You can notice that once you sit for two long or if you feel a better penile sensation depending on positioning. Sitting and not getting erect is another clear example of bad blood flow through the prostate.
Its a whole science behind urogenital inflammation
SPstriken if you donât have prostate problems then its ok for you. I have and many others too. And they started post-finasteride.
So i canât help you, neither can you help me with what you are telling me.
I only want to mention that you need a color-doppler TRUS to check for prostatitis. Not DRE exam. This is elementary and it wonât find exactly whats going on. Maybe you have only problems in your seminal vesicles and scarcely in your prostate. You need TRUS with color-doppler and someone who knows how to perform it.
Improved not cured. Perhaps some us do have prostate issues but wouldnât this more of a effect rather than a cause of our condition? Especially because trying to resolve it doesnât cure it out right.
Also how does this fit in with the crash many of us experience? I am not discounting that many of us likely have prostate issues, I am just doubtful that this is the core reason behind the condition.
Well I didnât understand that at all, your English morphology is a little spotty in some places.
No, i didnât fix my prostate. Iâve been doing a treatment for some months, but I havenât had ANY single change since starting with it. But the treatment I chose is not something as simple as âtake some cipro come back laterâ, cause experience has shown that that doesnât work. It doesnât involve a magic pill that fixes you up (which is what everybody seems to be looking for). I wont go too much into detail about my treatment, since I havenât had any improvements since starting it, and maybe, it just doesnât work, so thereâs no point in sharing it with detail. (Thereâs nothing shady about it, it just involves antibiotics and other methods to reduce inflammation and reduce the usual causes for infection, diet, and change of habits about defecating).
But again, since my âgrammerâ is so bad that my message is impossible to understand, Iâll repeat it:
If you believe that you could have prostatitis, then go check yourself. Now, if you think that this is bullshit, that your prostate is fine and that this is some mysterious hormonal mess or that finasteride has made our genes change, then simply, stay away from the PROSTATITIS SECTION ON THE FORUM.
But the fact that you guys keep coming here makes me think that somewhere you think that you can have prostatitis, so thatâs why thereâs no point in this discussion: Get yourself tested: if your prostate is perfectly fine, forget about it.
ps: Is prostatitis just a symptom of some other thing? Like what?? I donât know, you donât know, and basically, nobody knows what could it be. The only thing certain Iâve found in this year and a half is that my prostate got fucked up after just 30 pills of some medicine designed to affect the prostate (oh how illogical is that). I went to a clinic where they JUST FOCUS on treating prostatitis, and they are explicit about finasteride: Itâs shit, it fucks up men and it fucks up prostate, and thereâs only corruption by the side of Merck and the FDA, and ignorance by the side of urologists.
ps2: please forgive my poor âgrammerâ
Wow now I know why all the Mexicans I know hate people from Argentina.
Finasteride fucks up your prostate. Fact.
Finasteride fucks up your hormones. Fact
Fix either one and you might get better. Very hard.
I couldnât fix hormones because of my prostate being too fucked up post finasteride. Hormones didnât work. So after searching and trying and eliminating hormone treatments i entered the prostate treatments. Somehow those seem to improve my symptoms. So i will continue and if hormones are needed i will add.
Simple
I hadnt noticed this threadâŚ
Its pretty unbelievable to see whats is happening there again⌠You DO have telltale signs of prostatitis. Now that does not mean that PFS=prostatitis, but mew deterring you from investigating that problem with doctors after a sensible advice from solonjk (as long as hes not telling you to take quinolones or go visit Dr G) is dumb and wrong.
I do have chronic abacterial prostatitis and ball pain was for a long time the only symptom.
Now you really should go take a transrectal ultrasound with color doppler, and have a 4 glass stamey test or equivalent done. If no bacteria is cultured from the prostatic fluid DO NOT take antibiotics even if the urologist wants to give them to you. If it is inflammatory (presence of leucocytes) without bacteria it may be of autoimmune origins. Check autoimmune prostatitis on pubmed and youll understand how finasteride could trigger this. Also if there is no bacteria in the sample you should get started on self prostate massages, with an aneros helix (or pro-state psX, same thing) for example. It can only help, but do not do this in the presence of bacteria. If it isnt inflammatory and the TRUS shows a clear prostate, it may be a pelvic floor muscles dysfunction, check the stanford studies rthere pelvicpainhelp.com/ , also chi i think has made a thread about it here.
One of the few urologists that seem to have a decent way at diagnosing/treating appropriately this âdiseaseâ/symptoms with multiple different etiologies is Dr SHoskes in Cleveland. At least he will not give you broad spectrum abx hoping to destroy all bacteria without knowing which one you may or may not have in your prostate. dshoskes.com/cpclinic.html
Here is a very informative FAQ on chronic prostatisi rhat he put up on chronicprostatitis.org
This part is especially interesting
Q:Is chronic prostatitis an autoimmune disease?
A: Patients with ânonbacterial chronic prostatitisâ have increased levels of white blood cells in their prostate fluid but do not have bacteria cultured from that fluid. The 2 possibilities are therefore that the white cells are responding to a microbial infection that cannot be cultured or that there is a non-infectious cause for the inflammation. One such possibility would be an autoimmune disease.
In autoimmune diseases, the bodiesâ own white cells respond to a âselfâ antigen as though it were a ânon-selfâ pathogen and attack it as though it were a foreign invader. Diseases with a proven autoimmune basis include some forms of arthritis, diabetes mellitus and multiple sclerosis. These disorders may respond to treatment with anti-inflammatory or even anti-transplant rejection medications.
There are 2 lines of evidence to suggest that chronic prostatitis may be an autoimmune disease: animal models and preliminary human studies.
- Rodent models
There are established rodent models in which injection with prostatic or other genitourinary tissue produces pathologic changes in the prostate, which appear to be chronic inflammation. Naturally, there is no way to assess voiding symptoms or low level perineal pain in these animals, so it is completely unknown whether these models have anything in common with human prostatitis. The fact that an autoimmune model can produce these pathologic changes in rodents in no way proves that this is a relevant mechanism in humans. It does however show that this mechanism is at least plausible, resulting in immune and endocrine changes that could produce chronic prostatitis. - Human studies
Dr. Alexander at Johns Hopkins has recently studied men with or without chronic prostatitis to see whether T cells in their bloodstream reacted with prostatic proteins. They found a positive reaction in 4 of 14 prostatitis patients and in none of 15 normal controls. While this is very interesting and provocative data, it does not prove an autoimmune basis to the disease. These in vitro tests are notoriously poor at predicting in vivo reactivity of the immune system. In fact, despite 30 years of research in transplant immunology, there is still no useful test that can measure how âactiveâ or âdepressedâ the immune system is (extreme reductions in T cell counts, as seen in AIDS or with certain anti-rejection treatments, are exceptions). Cells that react in the test tube may be completely inactive in the environment of the prostate. - Clinical observations
In support of an autoimmune hypothesis, some patients with prostatitis complain of disorders in other parts of the body, which seem to mirror flare-ups of the prostate symptoms. These may include inflammatory bowel disease, joint pains, and rashes. Nevertheless, steroid treatment, which should significantly improve autoimmune conditions despite its often profound side effects, is seldom helpful to these patients.
My view:
I think it is unlikely that âtrueâ nonbacterial chronic prostatitis represents a classical autoimmune disease. I would speculate that it more likely represents a disorder of regulation of the inflammatory response such that the inflammation does not terminate even though all the infecting bacteria have been removed. This type of dysregulation of the injury response is a common feature of several chronic inflammatory disorders, including chronic renal allograft nephropathy. We are currently exploring this hypothesis in our clinical and basic research studies. The hypothesis that nonbacterial chronic prostatitis is caused by non-culturable bacteria will be discussed in a future essay.
Diabetic Neuropathy(back to top)
Q:Is it possible that some prostate symptoms have their cause in diabetic neuropathy? Anyone whoâs had this or knowledge, or even speculation - a reply would be very much appreciated.
A: Absolutely. Diabetic neuropathy leads to residual bladder urine which is a prime cause of urinary tract infections.
Yeast Hyphae(back to top)
Q : Does this mean that you confirm the reports of Drs. AEF and ANF and Brad Hennenfent that yeast hyphae can sometimes be seen in the eps? It has been my impression that most urologists doubt this.
A: I canât believe there is any controversy over the fact that yeast can be seen in EPS. What is controversial, and what I have not been able to decide for myself yet, is whether these yeast can cause local injury and produce an injury response, and whether anti-fungal agents can reverse this.
I agree with most of it, but not with the non-bacterial prostatitis. This has been proven to be a myth, and for many prostatitis patients. It is like irritable bowel syndrome where for 20 or more years doctors told patients ok its probably stress-related inflammation or hit-and-run viruses or unknown inflammatory etiology.
In decent universities it has been proven to be caused by viruses.
Fortunately prostatitis is mostly caused by bacteria. The rest are a total myth, pelvic inflammatory disorder and "A"bacterial prostatitis if searched correctly you will find bacterial agents.
Stamey Mears is definately not enough. It is a very very low sensitivity test. Why? Because when there is a calcified prostate or the capsule is hardened no fluid from the prostate will come out. I have done it, we have practiced it soooo many times in hospitals and it rarely proved anything.
Doctors who do know, and this is not only dr. Georgiadis but many around the globe, know that there is very big difficulty in adressing always the bacterial agents. You need prostatic fluid to find them and special labs which are difficult to locate. But they exist. And after several tests on my urine, sperm, PCRs, stamey mears etc etc i finally found a lab and took prostatic fluid to them. Bacteria was found.
In most cases chlamydia can cause pelvic inflammatory disorder and many sorts of autoimmune prostatitis because they attack macrophages and other immune cells and hid in them. There is great difficulty in treating chlamydia as well as staph and enterococci infections. If someone thinks this is easy, well go to a nephrology clinic and discuss with a doctor what staph aureus means. Its a killer, extreeeeemeeeely resistant strain.
The fact that abx dont work is clearly wrong use of them and time-length of inflammation, but still there is chance in many cases, not all of them.
PFS is not equal to prostatitis. But prostatitis is a major player in PFS. It doesnât let you recover easily your hormones. If you treat that there is a better chance of recovering but maybe adjacent measures are needed, probably hormones. I take damiana now in small doses and my sexuality is over the top, but the fact that prostatitis is not over with completely doesnât let me enjoy a symptom free situation. I still have ball problems, hypogonadism because of the inflammation that was haunting me for years. The rest of symptoms are basically history once i use damiana. I donât know its safety profile long term but i will try and see.
Good post Solonjk, i believe alot of what you say is in fact true. Sadly most of us donât have the resources to attain the proper medical care in this field. Quite often itâs very difficult to find even with the right resources available.
DO you think nystatin is any use?
Interesting (old) article about magnesium :
I believe the magnesium is helping some of my symptoms despite contributing to prostate pain due to more blood circulation / break down calcifications⌠More blood circulation = more chance of antibiotics getting at any infection?
As IBS is a symptom-based diagnosis it seems youâre overreaching in this claim even if you have a study claiming an association.
Colin, is there any theory you donât agree with?
damiana recovery your sexuality?!? its really
gengivitis linked to prostatitis someone have this?
IBS is not a symptom based diagnosis. It is diagnosed by inexperienced doctors as like.
It is a serious disorder which is not properly addressed in many cases. People are completely handicap in most times since they need to go to the bathroom 20+ rounds a day or cannot go for more than a week or two or so. It is caused by viruses in most cases and overgrowth of bacteria due to compromised cellular immunity.
Recently (and i mean within the last 5 years or so) there has been a revolution in the diagnostic procedure with biopsies revealing increased non-specific inflammation in the intestinal parenchyma, decreased transit time through study with motility capsules and by measuring overproduction of lactic acid due to high population bacterial fermentation.
Offcourse a general gastro-enterologist wonât care less about IBS and will prescribe whatever crap he thinks of that may help and gives him a handicap to make more money in the pharm industry, or send the patient to a nutritionist to try herbs and diet restrictions. This offcourse fails in most cases because it is a symptom based diagnosis for them who donât know.
If you want to get more informed about it try
you will be shocked by what patients go through and how much neglect there is in this area.
But as all functional disorders are not straightforward for the medical community so is this one, and patients end up guinea pigs in the hands of whoever they visit in the field.
Iâm open minded. Iâm also pretty sure PFS is multi-faceted.