Propeciahelp: End of Year Update and 2021 Plans

Dear members,

Firstly, I’d like to wish you a happy and safe holiday season from our team. :christmas_tree:

I am writing to update the community regarding our team and our plans moving forward.

In very sad news, our friend Tzinkman, who has contributed a lot to this community, suffered a dramatic worsening of his condition in September. He has been completely disabled by his PFS symptoms since. He has suffered further physical changes and cannot currently operate a phone or computer due to the severity of his neurological symptoms. He is a wonderful, dedicated person and a good friend to me. I am so deeply saddened by what he’s going through. I have been in regular contact with a member of his family caring for him and passed our thoughts.

After over a decade of contributions to the issue, Awor has stepped down from management of our site and team to concentrate on his personal life. He has contributed a lot to this issue around his own PFS symptoms, career and commitments. His past efforts inspired a lot of us to do what we can to make a difference, despite the odds. I’m sure you’ll all join us in thanking him for what he achieved and wishing him the best.

The current situation

As will likely be the case for many looking back at this year, we aren’t where we hoped to be at the close of 2020. It remains unacceptably rare that a patient can have a useful conversation with a clinical doctor about the serious physical, sexual and cognitive problems they are suffering following use of finasteride.

The lack of clinical awareness regarding PFS remains a catastrophic obstacle in the way of progress towards understanding the disease. It is critical that there is understanding of the clinical features and symptoms associated with this disease if practical progress is to occur.

We remain very interested in the outcome of the investigation that took place at Baylor college, but we are not aware of the current state of this project and simply have to see what comes of it - whenever that may be.

The proposals and hypotheses from the current slate investigating PFS, or proposing to, do not have our support. A lack of widespread clinical reporting has left the investigation of PFS, and the enthusiasm to do so, in the hands of very few doctors and scientists. We, as the largest patient organisation, and as patients, are increasingly concerned by this. The disease remains so poorly appreciated clinically that some theory-led directions - and requests for financing - are outpacing accurate awareness of what is happening to people. Meanwhile, we are left to deal with the reality of this condition on a daily basis.

Our plans for 2021

Although slow, the discussion around PFS is changing. Only yesterday, a friend told me that the available information was far improved as compared with when he had looked into PFS during my own crash several years ago. The condition being effectively noted on Wikipedia for the first time is a significant milestone, and I’m proud that one of our team was directly involved in updating this. The Reuters investigation into the obfuscation of unresolved adverse events was also an important expose. We have established productive communications with some important media outlets this year to build upon in the future.

It’s clear we need to significantly step up awareness efforts. It’s also clear, with regards to research, we need to establish and support projects that have the potential to provide important practical information that can be built upon effectively. We will focus on these goals in the coming year.

Propeciahelp has greatly expanded in terms of our team and our projects. Our main website is now not only serving patients, but also those seeking information about the condition. After much discussion, we have decided together that, to better serve these groups, we will create an additional “parent” brand and website for our work and outreach as an organisation. This will serve as a hub for our new social channels, and will provide quick and clear information to non-patients, such as doctors, researchers and journalists, who we will increasingly engage next year. Propeciahelp will remain the patient community platform and important record it is, and will be linked as such from this new organisation site. We additionally need to rework some technical aspects of PH to ensure more manageable operation now and in the future, so several of us will be working on that through the early part of next year.

As part of this new venture, we will soon launch a new YouTube channel and patient video series, thanks to the brave participants. Two members of the PH team and three members of the community have provided video stories, and we hope to encourage more. It’s really important these stories go out coherently together, not dotted around on multiple accounts. If you want to get involved in being a part of this important project and share your story alongside other patients, please see the guide here. If this is not something you are in a position to do but still want to share your story, we have a number of written submissions to be published on the forthcoming site and would also appreciate more submissions. Please follow the same guidelines as for the video submission, and message one of the team members listed with your story.

We have spent a very long time scripting a short “explainer” video to accompany the new video series. This succinctly introduces “what PFS is” in terms of how it can affect people’s lives, and the broad situation we are dealing with. We are currently engaging professional animators and funding this ourselves, so this should all be ready by the end of January. This explainer will serve to support the patient stories and provide a fast introduction to the condition in our outreach efforts. We are excited to get this out there, and for further video content.

The post-drug syndrome survey has been a great success in the collection of data, so thank you to everyone who has participated. It demonstrates key features of the condition and the multisystem symptom profile. Much of this is a world first, including the results from the patient satisfaction survey. This survey is something we are very proud to have achieved. We have a talented pair of new volunteers behind the scenes helping us technically, one who will help work with the data, and we will seek to make key decisions and produce information from the survey in the coming year.

With regards to research: Earlier in the year, I discussed our situation in depth with appropriate and accomplished molecular biologists. Both separately recommended a whole genome sequencing study specifically as the best place to start, stressing its breadth, neutrality, and the potential to provide key clues to what makes us variably different to asymptomatic users at a fundamental level. We had a positive conversation with an advisor to the foundation regarding a draft proposal I was provided, and it is something we will hope to resume organising as soon as practicable in the new year. The expertise of the involved scientists interpreting the data is critically important to get right. We want to get to the stage where we receive a well-designed proposal that we support and can bring it to the community to prominently fundraise for and hopefully make happen.

We appreciate the patience and I’m sorry things have been slow. After overcoming setbacks this year we are energised and confident that 2021 will be far more productive on the back of the groundwork we are working hard to lay down. We are a team managing many projects as volunteers. Everything takes a lot of time and effort. Many of us are very severely impacted by the disease we are trying to address. This is not an easy situation nor is it a simple problem.

Finally: A huge personal thank you from me to the staff who make the continued operation of this site possible, and my sincere best wishes to everyone battling this syndrome.

Axo

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I missed two things this year:

  1. The participation of Awor and other admins and experience people who have been very active during the last years and have a huge background and information aboit the desiase, treatments, etc. Now i can feel they are not active any more.

  2. Some although unclear, potential treatments that can reverse the PFS state…

Anyway thanks to the people who is supporting this site and all the related activities.

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Yes, my question would be who is really “we” at this point.
Ive hung around long enough to know you could almost count the number of regulars on here with two hands.
When looking at what is “PFS” that is a very small number when considering the entirety of the internet.
Also in being selective as to whats supported, is that really to everyone’s benefit?
What makes one person more qualified then the next?
Education?
Experience?
Maybe a combination of the two?

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The PH community extends beyond the forum itself. There are members who are not so active on the forum who have done and are currently spending a great deal of time and resources contributing to community projects and are chipping away at different things in an attempt to further our cause.

In terms of who “we” are, what Axo outlined in regards to research and visibility goals is essentially what staff team providing the platform and projects to the community are working towards. Anybody who wants to contribute to those projects will be welcomed with open arms.

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Hi @guitarman01, as @SkinDiesel says I was providing this update on what the staff team who provide the site and projects are doing towards our long term goals for those interested. I was not speaking for forum members, who have wide ranging situations, different reasons for using the forum, and differing personal views/goals. Apologies if that could have been clearer.

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Its very sad that after all the PFS research that has gone on over the last decade most Doctors still do not believe PFS is real.

I don’t think anyone would take Fin if they were fully informed about ALL the side effects.

2012 seemed to have been the best year in terms of PFS public awareness

I think PFS will only hit home with the general public if a major celebrity admits to having it.

Back in 2012 I thought Propecia was going to be pulled off the market within a few years.

It seems that no matter how many PFS studies come out they will either be ignored or played down.

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If it makes you feel any better MarkI contacted Khera back in the fall and the Baylor study is still ongoing he told me he had collaborated with the University of Utah genetic department to analyze the data…So I assume its still ongoing and who knows when it completes and when it publishes.

Not much hope on the surface it seems in general for pfs sufferers…I know its hard to accept… We just keep pushing forward…I do believe the awareness has grown greatly about pfs Dr’s discussing it more and more on Twitter etc…Partly due to hims and all the tv ads you see now for hairloss selling finasteride…Compared to 5 years ago it has exploded as more talk of finasteride there seems to be a “common knowledge” of bad side effects and pfs…Back in 2014 when I got murdered by a dermatologist it was un heard of…

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Years ago I expected there would be a game changer PFS study that would prove all the doubters of PFS wrong.

But it looks like that will never happen unless billions of dollars can be put into PFS research.

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Yes, I’ve been a long time lurker as well and I also get the feeling this place has really stagnated. Hopefully something will change to the better.

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I am hoping this will change as the condition receives growing recognition and the stigma of PFS patients being people who simply don’t lift enough, don’t eat right, had a pre-existing condition, or are caught in a perpetual psychological disorder is lifted.

This ridiculous notion has been pervasive for too long and doesn’t come close to explaining it. When it is recognized that this was done to us and not something we did to ourselves, it will change.

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First I appreciate the outlet and efforts, none of this is meant to be disrespectful but maybe more so thought provoking.
Let me just go down the line.
^What do you mean by this?
What if your theory is wrong?
Not too long ago both you and @awor dropped a self written research paper without barely saying a word. There was little to no follow-up even months later. There still hasnt been any.
What if the AR gene is not overexpressed?
There is overwhelming research and studies to say that it shouldnt be.
Do you know there is no standardized testing to interpret AR expression and that theres always a chance results could be misinterpreted, or collected at a point-in-time that doesnt reflect a possible final or normal resting state?

Awor had said that milk thistle had made his condition much worse then Finasteride ever did, so in this case we are not really talking about a specific drug issue. We are not talking about Finasteride, we are talking about a condition he was predisposed to.
We are talking about a life issue, not a drug one, it was only exposed by the drug. its almost the same as spinning the wheel with covid, a person just doesnt know.

He was also of the mindset to decrease AR sensitivity by taking types of antiandrogens to restore ar sensitivity? That makes sense?
What if hes been wrong all these years? Are his peers still hanging around?
Most of you are pretty new here including yourself.
You wrote an entire research paper based on taking one pill and a couple years experience?
To me thats a little out there, and yes I am aware how one pill could have a long lasting impact.
If I had serious problems from taking one pill of Fin, I would be looking at myself first the drug second. Meaning there must be an underlying issue as to why I was so susceptible when the majority of the population isnt.

So we are going to try to look at the entire human genome,you have to check, but what if theres nothing there?
What if thats not it? Are people prepared to be wrong about some thoughts that have been held onto for decades?
Then what?
Im not trying to be offensive, but just looking at this from a critical point of view.
All im saying is give yourself and others every chance possible.

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I am just so thankful that we were blessed to have mew, awor and axo help us at all. That paper was an incredible amount of work. Probably something like 4 years of full time work from several guys. All the sacrifices made to produce it must have been tremendous. We will be lucky if anyone ever does something like that for us again. I don’t think people here have much of a sense at all how much work writing a paper like that is, and all for basically nothing in return.

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sad to hear about tzinkman, please send him my best regards

he was really stoic and i had no idea he was battling brutal symptoms

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I agree. My last post was more on the aggressive side then the sensitive one. Thats alot of time and effort. Its all appreciated.
At the end of the day it is still a theory though, whether its on paper or not.

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The neutrality of a tentative WGS, which is currently one of the primary research objectives along with elucidating the complete symptomatic profile, was stressed in this update announcement.

Neither of these objectives concern testing a specific hypothesis.

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Hello Dubya,

What do you expect from WGS ? Any genetic association or something else ?

Do you consider a proteomic approach ?
Might be less expensive than WGS and give multiple endpoints for diagnosis. or not ?
What are pros and cons between both ? Are they both neutral ?
Just curious.

Thank you,

One of the things that I think is worth noting is that Axo and Awor are regular people. Neither of them are scientists, they did the research and the reading, referencing and everything else that needed to be done. They did it without having people pay for their time, without paid resources or facilities. Anyone could do this if they put the time and effort in. Nobody does.

I’m not attacking anyone when I say this is significantly more work than dreaming a theory up and posting the abstract from someone else’s work on this forum.

I’d welcome anyone doing serious research into this, but if you’re going to do it, do it and do it properly. Prove that you’ve got the right idea. Get your paper published. Just tearing down other people’s commendable work, doesn’t help.

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I could write a book at this point, (and I probably have with all my posts between here and acne.org) it doesn’t further validate my thoughts.
Nothing is set in stone in my mind. I’m prepared to be wrong about some things everyday.
Are others?

Theories can turn into obsessions that can create a sort of tunnel vision, where sometimes the simplest thoughts can be missed or overlooked.
Ive seen it on acne.org, except its with vitamin a, not antiandrogens.
Any Game of Thrones fans?
Little finger had alot of good lines,
“Assume your wrong before your right so it doesn’t surprise you when you are and you can keep moving”
or something like that.
I look at some of Mews old posts, and it almost reminds me of some of my posts, or the way I go about things. I just happen to come from a different drug and website.
Also believe me I dont think too highly of myself, (pretension is a word that comes to mind sometimes when you start hanging out on some of these forums)
but I know I might be one of the better chances people have on here on a patient level, and its probably never going to come around again in your lifetime.

I do think at some point you almost have to make a bet or a gamble as to what might be right going forward, kind of like the research paper. Something that can be presented to say “hey we think this could be it.”
Its going to have to get someones attention.

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This feels very true. The risk of long-lasting or permanent side effects seems known to more and more doctors, and I’m also seeing it discussed among non-PFSers on online forums. Discussion has shifted from “does it exist” to “how bad is it really, how many are affected, are there pre-existing conditions that make you vulnerable”.

Yes, agreed. Heroic effort. (And imagine doing it while suffering cognitive symptoms… unreal.) That paper was illuminating and compelling. It’s the most cutting edge description of PFS we have.

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Well said @Greek. Not many on here me included would have been able to put this amount of time and effort in. It’s worth noting that this is done whilst suffering from PFS. Its more than commendable/admirable, deserving of gratitude and recognition from all.
Getting through each day is a task in itself for me. One thought, could we not recruit someone full time to push forward the agenda. I for one would certainly contribute financially towards that end. We would see things move at greater speed in terms of pfs recognition and ultimately funding for a treatment. Just a thought.

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