*** Post your VITAMIN D (25-OH / 25-hydroxyvitamin D) result

[leantime]

19.0 (32.0 - 100.0 ng/ml)

Date tested, November 4, 2011

I stopped taking Fin in June 2008.

[mlb]

Guys, I’m no D3 expert but I noticed something interesting. My D3 reading is always borderline low (~30) despite supplementing with 2000 IU daily for many years. However, once my doctor tested D1,25 (calcitriol) instead of D25 (which is normally tested). My D1,25 was out of range on the high end (79: range 10-75. I have seen a study suggesting a better estimate for high end of range is only 45!).

Any Vitamin D experts here have any idea what that could mean, if anything? Has anyone else had D1,25 tested along with D25?

Here is a little background info I found on another site…

"I believe you are absolutely right, that 1,25 D does not have to be in abnormal range for problems to occur in patients. Sure, if it is abnormal, there is a problem. However, I think that as you point out, it is not just high 1,25D it is the wide gap between the two D levels, the great difference. Thus, a person who has had this going on for some will probably have a normal 1,25D and a very low 25D level, down in single figures. This happens especially if the person has not been diagnosed early enough. As the calcitriol level rises, the calcium level also rises. The body cannot stand for this, so as calcium is detected to be getting too high, the kidney reabsorbs more phosphate in an effort to push calcium down. This is usually successful at reducing the calcium level. The parathyroid glands also sense a problem and begin to stop sending out their hormonal message to the liver which stimulates production of 25D. Shutting off 25D will eventually cut the amount of 25D substrate available to both kidney and granulomatous tissue. Only the kidney calcitriol is regulated, the granulomatous product is not. Thus D levels will build if you continue to feed substrate to the granulomatous tissue. If you are not feeding it, or it is winter, eventually both D levels will drive down only to begin rising once spring hits and peaking the last month of summer. We know, because our doc checks our Ds regularly. Have you thought of going to the US to get checked out??? They would do all the tests in one go, unlike our idiot docs who faff about in the dark age.

I absolutely agree that the medical world thinks only in abnormals but it does not match patient experience with the disease. They haven’t worked out that Ds drive down long term and giving more D keeps driving Ds down because that is the way the body responds in granulomatous disease. There is TONS and TONS of literature regarding 1,25D in the healthy. IT hardly moves year in and only has minor seasonal movement. This is why doctors shun it as a measure of nutritional status. When the system works, i.e. you only have the kidney controlling 1,25D levels - they are completely stable. This is why they are NOT used.

HOwever, granulomatous disease, malignancy create new and unregulated feeds of 1,25D and this makes the system totally unstable and jumping about like ours does. Doctors just don’t get it. Sarc people are different and half the people with sarcoid off treatment would show this phenomenon if tested. Other than those three conditions, there is no other condition which causes dysregulation so naturally there is no literature. However, it may be more widespread than docs realise."

inspire.com/groups/stop-sarcoidosis/discussion/d1-25-calcitriol/

Interesting quote from a paper…

VDR dysregulation in turn prevents the breakdown of the active vitamin D metabolite 1,25-hydroxyvitamin D (1,25-D) by CYP24. In silico data suggest that when 1,25-D rises above its normal range it binds the alpha/beta thyroid receptors, the glucocorticoid receptor (GCR) and the androgen receptor (AR), displacing their native ligands and causing an array of hormonal imbalances.

autoimmunityresearch.org/preprints/ProalAnnals2009Preprint.pdf

[dgreene]

Vitamind D is processed in liver to become 25-OH…(calcidiol) and then goes to kidneys to become 1,25-diOH…(calcitriol).

If people have low calcidiol it may mean that the liver is not processing Vitamin D effectively. If calcidiol is normal, but calcitriol is low, then there is a problem with the kidneys. Taking Vitamin D will not fix the problem as it will still not be processed correctly.

[mlb]

@dgreene

Vitamind D is processed in liver to become 25-OH…(calcidiol) and then goes to kidneys to become 1,25-diOH…(calcitriol).

If people have low calcidiol it may mean that the liver is not processing Vitamin D effectively. If calcidiol is normal, but calcitriol is low, then there is a problem with the kidneys. Taking Vitamin D will not fix the problem as it will still not be processed correctly.

And if calcidiol is low and calcitriol is high?

[dgreene]

Idk, that’s weird. I would assume liver problem still though.

[spstriken]

why don’t you test for liver detox pathways test.
I remember once The_ruffneck once did this test and he found problem with his liver.

[spstriken]

worth reading these discussions

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1398&p=9938&hilit=liver#p9938
The_Ruffneck

Well i believe Saw P tripped out my liver.

Liver detoxification profile results

Phase 1 : Caffeine clearance (0.5-1.8 ml/min/kg) 2.7 HIGH
When Phase 1 activity is high there is increased metabolic activity at the intermediate phase (before the molecules are presented to phase 2 for conjugation).This results in increased production of free radicals and the potential for secondary tissue damage.

Phase II : Glutathionation (5.6% - 11.4%) 5.4 LOW
Responsible for detoxification of : Pesticides , Paracetemol , Toxic metals , Penicillin , Tetracycline , Petroleum , Alcohol

Sulphation (16-36%) 30%
Glucuronidation (27-56%) 29%
Glycination (30%-53%) 31%

Ratios
Sulphate:Glucuronide (0.3 - 0.7) 1.0 HIGH
Reflects relationship between sulphate and glucuronide.

Phase 1:Sulphation (3.5-13.0) 9.1

Phase 1 : Glycination (1.3-3.5) 8.6 HIGH
Phase 1 : Glucuronide (1.9-4.2) 9.1 HIGH
These two ratios reflect the relationship between Phase I and these conjugation (detox?) pathways and will demonstrate whether the biochemical load from Phase 1 is high or low.

Recommendations
St Marys Thistle , liver detox support tabs , CO-Q10 , multivitamin
Diet - LOW PROTEIN (Meat contains many enzymes and i have high enzyme levels as shown) , more wholegrain , fruit , vegetable etc

[mlb]

Where do you get that sort of liver test done?

[spstriken]

altmedicine.about.com/od/labtestindexbyfocus/a/liver_detox.htm
How can I get a Detoxification Profile?
Talk to your health care professional about your symptoms and ask if this test would be useful for you. It can be done through:
Genova Laboratory or Metametrix Clinical Laboratory.

I think if ten of us do these tests, it will help us either make this theory valid or bury it for ever in the mud.

[mlb]

Any idea how much it cost?

[martinM]

Keep this thread on topic.

[spstriken]

Mew I am confused here.

we are tested for 25-OH or 25-hydroxyvitamin D which is processed in the liver before converting to active form D3 or 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin.

almost all of us are low in 25-hydroxyvitamin D which means liver is low in vitamin D stores.
now how a person who is supplementing vitamin D3 can show more 25-hydroxyvitamin ? as is the case with bluejaysfan

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3420&hilit=vitamin+D&start=60
I was taking up to 8000 iu/day, figuring it could help.

1,25 HYDROXY VITAMIN D 173 range 30-120 pmol/L

I found the vitamin D helped my testicles - don’t really want to stop taking it altogether. 2000 i.u. maybe? I’m confused.

Mods, go ahead and delete this post if you don’t want out of range high results here.

[mlb]

@spstriken

Mew I am confused here.

we are tested for 25-OH or 25-hydroxyvitamin D which is processed in the liver before converting to active form D3 or 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin.

almost all of us are low in 25-hydroxyvitamin D which means liver is low in vitamin D stores.
now how a person who is supplementing vitamin D3 can show more 25-hydroxyvitamin ? as is the case with bluejaysfan

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3420&hilit=vitamin+D&start=60
I was taking up to 8000 iu/day, figuring it could help.

1,25 HYDROXY VITAMIN D 173 range 30-120 pmol/L

I found the vitamin D helped my testicles - don’t really want to stop taking it altogether. 2000 i.u. maybe? I’m confused.

Mods, go ahead and delete this post if you don’t want out of range high results here.

Hmm. So he is low in D25 and high in D1,25? My blood work showed the same. Apparently this is fairly unusual and indicative that something is wrong. Others should get D1,25 tested.

[spstriken]

Date 2010/06/24

25 Hydroxy vitamin D 55 Deficiency <25 nmol / L
insufficiency 25 - 75 nmol / L
I had been on 6000IU since Dec 2009.
points to low levels of vitamin D in liver?

[mlb]

@spstriken

Date 2010/06/24

25 Hydroxy vitamin D 55 Deficiency <25 nmol / L
insufficiency 25 - 75 nmol / L
I had been on 6000IU since Dec 2009.
points to low levels of vitamin D in liver?

It could also point to too much D25 being converted to D1,25, which would suggest a kidney or autoimmune issue. Most “vitamin D” tests are D25 because doctors assume that if that is normal then D1,25 will be normal. A few other people need to get D25 and D1,25 tested at the same time.

[spstriken]

@mlb

@spstriken

Date 2010/06/24

25 Hydroxy vitamin D 55 Deficiency <25 nmol / L
insufficiency 25 - 75 nmol / L
I had been on 6000IU since Dec 2009.
points to low levels of vitamin D in liver?

It could also point to too much D25 being converted to D1,25, which would suggest a kidney or autoimmune issue. Most “vitamin D” tests are D25 because doctors assume that if that is normal then D1,25 will be normal. A few other people need to get D25 and D1,25 tested at the same time.

good point but doctor does not write 1,25 dihydroxy or D3 tests.
have you tested it ?

[mlb]

@spstriken

@mlb

@spstriken

Date 2010/06/24

25 Hydroxy vitamin D 55 Deficiency <25 nmol / L
insufficiency 25 - 75 nmol / L
I had been on 6000IU since Dec 2009.
points to low levels of vitamin D in liver?

It could also point to too much D25 being converted to D1,25, which would suggest a kidney or autoimmune issue. Most “vitamin D” tests are D25 because doctors assume that if that is normal then D1,25 will be normal. A few other people need to get D25 and D1,25 tested at the same time.

good point but doctor does not write 1,25 dihydroxy or D3 tests.
have you tested it ?

Yes, my D1,25 was high and my D25 was low. That was two separate tests a few months apart though so I can’t say for sure that it is 100% accurate.

[flamingpie]

So, is it established that we should be supplementing vitamin D?
And if so, what kind should we be taking…regular vitamin d or vitamin d3?

[dgreene]

Mew, is it pretty much set in stone that markers for PFS are low/below range Vitamin D and 3a-diol-G? And which Vitamin D? 1 or 1, 25 diOH? Are there any other markers?

[mindless]

2011-10-12: Vitamin D 16.5 ng/mL (30.0-99.9)
2012-02-21: Vitamin D 36.6 ng/mL (30.0-99.9)

My new doctor (she rocks) put me on 50,000IU twice a week after getting my first results back.
I’m currently using over the counter supplements, 2,000IU twice a day with fish oil.