Please pray for me . Sodium Butyrate warning ****HELP me with my labs****!

Just rest
Drink clean water
And give your body time to find the balance

Eat good protein when you can
Stay away from sugar or caffeine

When I fully crashed I just waited it out and ate very little. The little that I did eat was eggs and toast
Sometimes no move is the right move

You probably crashes your estrogen and it’s gonna take some time to get back up to speed

1 Like

What brand and dose did you use?

Sounds really weird to get this kind of reaction from Sodium butyrate. I’ve read up on it a lot and can’t find any pharmacology how it could have this bad effect on you.

Only thing I found was that it might make it easier for virus to infect cells.

Hope you’ll feel better soon brother.

1 Like

There is evidence from prostate cancer cells that Sodium butyrate affects androgen receptor expression (e.g.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17970072). Given that androgen receptors are overexpressed in PFS, and likely in PAS/PSSD/etc. as well, and are a likely driver of the disease, people should stay away from substances with such effects.

5 Likes

This.

This shit pushed my test through the roof like i said. And now am having a furious reaction.

Please God I pray I return to baseline which wasn’t even good to begin with

I’m in emergency at the hospital right now

I’m really fucked up guys

1 Like

Thank you for finding this study

1 Like

What does this mean? I’ve read the study but I can’t really understand. Does this thing increase AR expression? And what does it do to cancer cells?
Could QUERCETIN have some similar action? Cause I was going to buy it but fuck it I’m not sure now

Rule of thumb: Stay away from everything that affects androgen receptor expression, including Quercetin. We don’t understand enough at this point in time to take educated risks.

4 Likes

Nice find thanks. There seems to be some conflicting evidence wheter it decrease or increase AR expression. Also seems to differ between cancer and non-cancer cells which makes it incredibly difficult to interprent anything.

I found this interesting read when looking for answers.

“PSA gene expression can also become elevated in the absence of androgens by numerous compounds including butyrate, phenylacetate, vasoactive intestinal peptide, retinoic acid, vitamin D, interleukin 6, growth factors and PKA”

I wonder if people low on androgens to begin with are at a higher risk of PFS / PSSD etc. I know many PFS-sufferers say they get worse with vitamin D also.

Also I wish we had clear evidence wheter AR is over-expressed or not in PFS and why it won’t down-regulate when androgens are restored. There seems to be a mechanism for it (as one could assume since lower androgens up-regulate AR expression).

the fact man is that the only thing I’m sure about is that I’ve prostatitis, and somehow I’ve to treat it. I’ve just found positive things about quercetin for prostatitis, therefore i’m considering it. There isn’t even clear evidence that is antiandrogenic and my sides are not even hormonal anymore I’m pretty sure

@hippydoof best of luck man I’ll be thinking of you. Just for info two rubs of trt gave me major problems including the v dark urine and more immediate weight loss and other stuff which took me to A and E… two weeks later things calmed. Recently 2.5 mg of Cailis had a similar effect only to find this also raises T. I had a week of horrible extreme sides I believe you’re extremely sensitive to T my journey tells me that it will abate for you in a week or so even though it feels eternal right now. SB also fucked me over nigh on 3 years ago. Hang on mate and know the extremes will subside. Keep that in the forefront of your mind.

“Quercetin, a flavonoid found in apples, onions, red wine, and tea, has been reported to inhibit AR expression, resulting in inhibition of LNCaP cell growth.”

Laz thank you. You’re truly a great person. I need the glimmers of hope right now.

2 Likes

I’m with you mate. Prayers and healing :heartbeat:

2 Likes

@hippydoof

This is from the Post Androgen Deprivation Syndrome pdf put togheter by awor and axolotl.

Page 91

Across the history of the propeciahelp forum, the most consequentially profound responses described entail significant modulation of symptoms by further exposure to substances that lower androgens through mechanisms including 5 alpha reductase inhibition, or substances that reduce concentrations of or inhibit AR. While rapid and severe worsening can occur, patients have equally often reported the dramatic return of function in the domains affected by PFS, usually temporarily. These are nearly always taken in the absence of the knowledge they are taking pharmaceuticals or natural extracts with antiandrogenic properties and are frequently sought out based upon their purported benefits in marketing and health editorials concerning relief of symptoms or through online reports from other patients. These have included zinc, quercetin, resveratrol, milk thistle, licorice root, turmeric/curcumin, sulforaphane, DIM, sodium butyrate, saw palmetto, tribulus terrestris, polyphenol rich products such as cacao nibs or pomegranate, and soy and soy isoflavones including genistein, all of which are notably antiandrogenic through various mechanisms ?

This could possibly explain this unfortunate turning of events, as well as @papasmurf 's.

How are you doing by the way.?

1 Like

This!

Everybody points at overexpressed AR yet nobody conducts such a study. To me this AR theory seems to be less certain day-by-day

Wait. What?

I was under the impression that Melcangi (or maybe Di Loreto?) proved exactly this through preputial skin biopsies.

Am I wrong?

1 Like

That the penile skin in PFS patients were overexpressed of AR compared to control?

So how this proves a global AR overexpression and why havent been any further studies done after this finding makes me wonder if this is the real reason

@TFD @andras33

I suggest you both read this. It pretty much sums up what we know about PFS at the moment.

1 Like

Unfortunately we don’t have researchers lining up to investigate our condition. It’s niche and it takes time.

Update

I don’t know if you have ever felt your bones , connective tissue and tendons dying but I can tell you it is beyond hell.

ALL my joints are popping with even the slightest movement. They feel loose like jello. No tightness at all
Brushing my teeth makes.me wabbale all over. My bones ache deeply. Arms teeth legs and my jaw feel like they are being hollowed out
Actively in real time. I have never experienced this level I feel like being dissolved from the inside out.

I’ve lost 2 inches in my hip. Size 30 waist jeans I now need a belt to wear.

It hurts to touch my bones and I know if I fell over I would shatter. Even the slightest bump feels like it’s going to break

Friends I don’t know what to say. I am very very worried I have destroyed myself. Bones cracking and aching that never have before. Trouble walking and standing.

Is there any chance this maye improve? If I loose my mobility and my bands I fear what comes next for me

2 Likes