Phosphatidylserine

Therapeutic Efforts Pharmaceutical
#21

mariobros, interesting thread. I have been looking into phosphatidylserine (PS) as a method of controlling my AM overproduction of cortisol. According to this chapeter of “The Neuroendocrine Thoery of Aging”

vrp.com/articles.aspx?page=L … 37&zType=2
PS can reset your pituatary’s sensitivity to cortisol.

As you realized already, 95% of the stuides that were out there looked at bovine extracted PS, and bovine-PS is very difficult to obtain due to mad cow disease fears. The common form now is PS derived from soy, which lacks the long chain fatty acid groups that bovine source (B-PS) has. Results on soy_PS in terms of cortisol control are mixed.

The good news is that three different groups are working on PS having appropriate DHA and/or EPA chains attached to them. The most wdiely available is Enzymotic’s Sharp PS-Gold, for every 100 mg soy PS they conjugate on 20 mg DHA. There are a number of folks encapsulating this product, search carefuly through Source Naturals PS line (they have several different types); Crayhon Research, Puritan, and Country Life. Usually Country Life is the cheapest but you are still looing at $0.50 USD per pill.

Italy based Chemi Nutra has been funding stuides of soy based PS on cortisol secretion and attention defict/hyperactivity for a few years. They have come up with a fish derived PS that has much higher DHA content than Enzymotic (Chemi calls it Omegaaide PS). I have been in touch with them directly, the product is not comepletely launched yet although a propective study is going on in Italy (maybe ItalySideEffect can get in).

You can get Omegaaide PS in a supplement in the US but the partcular supplement composition includes a healthy dose of borage oil. Borage oil is a fairly strong 5AR2 inhibitor so it is rat poison for us. It is some sort of designer supplement for ADHD. If there is interest I can see about getting a compounding pharmacy in the US to encapsulate pure OmegaAide for us; but just to give you an idea of the buy-in it is 20 kg minimum order.

Finally Chainon Biotechnology appears to be closest to replicating bovine PS:
“Comparison of molecular species of various transphosphatidylated phosphatidylserine (PS) with bovine cortex PS by mass spectrometry.”
chainonbio.com/produkte.files/CPL3694.pdf
using purified fish liver extract (hope its not high in mercury or other toxins) Attempts to reach this company have not been fruitful. Production appears to be planned in China. The paper is an excellent read.

Sorry I can not help much with the phosphatidyl-choline discussion, other than to note that I have had signficant success recently (return of nocturnal erections) using a supplment that includes acetylcholine (just finsihed a cycle including blood work at end).
Two of my four or so docs are recommending trying PS, 400 mg right at the time of high cortisol (e.g. in the AM, and/or just before interval training)

kazman

#22

Hi guys,

Great to see so many people taking an interest, the more minds we have the better as i personally feel this is a complicated, but very promising, area.

correiovip, i think what you’re saying makes sense. perhaps a lack of PS, could help to explain in part the “brain fog” experienced by a number of sufferers?

kazman, your post is very interesting. it seems there is still quite a bit of research going on in this area, and it’s good that researchers are trying to recreate a PS supplement that has the same chemical structure as bovine PS.

yeah the cortisol lowering effect of PS seems to be an interesting benefit. i read that excess cortisol is bad for the testicles as well as a cause of muscle wastage so definitely stick with it.

the thing that makes this exciting is that if we can find a phospholipid with the right structure and if it works… it seems to be something that you can take for an extended period of time with out any side effects. i just hope it’s not all too good to be true, but hey, if anyone deserves a break it’s us right?

however, seems there is alot more to learn on this subject.

#23

Phosphatidylserine content in foods according to wikipedia:

Table 1. PS content in different foods.[11]

Food Phosphatidylserine Content in mg/100 g

Bovine brain 713
Atlantic mackerel 480
Chicken heart 414
Atlantic herring 360
Eel 335
Offal (average value) 305
Pig’s spleen 239
Pig’s kidney 218
Tuna 194
Chicken leg, with skin, without bone 134
Chicken liver 123
White beans 107
Soft-shell clam 87
Chicken breast, with skin 85
Mullet 76
Veal 72
Beef 69
Pork 57
Pig’s liver 50
Turkey leg, without skin or bone 50
Turkey breast without skin 45
Crayfish 40
Cuttlefish 31
Atlantic cod 28
Anchovy 25
Whole grain barley 20
European hake 17
European pilchard (sardine) 16
Trout 14
Soy lecithin 10-20[citation needed]
Rice (unpolished) 3
Carrot 2
Ewe’s Milk 2
Cow’s Milk (whole, 3.5% fat) 1
Potato 1

I am going to start a regimen today. I ll take the soy based Phosphatidylserine pills daily (don’t know how many miligrams yet) untill i find a place to buy the pure substance. Also, i am going to eat roasted chicken hearts everyday.
Let’s see how it goes.

#24

I already posted the abstract from this earlier but i found the complete article:

Modulation of epididymal delta 4-steroid 5 alpha-reductase activity in vitro by the phospholipid environment.

jbc.org/content/260/12/7489.full.pdf

Previously i had just posted the abstract, which stated dilauroyl phosphatidylcholine as a potent activator of 5 alpha reductase, but in the full article it seems they also looked at the effect of egg lecithin and also found it to have a stimulatory effect on 5a-reductase.

Egg lecithin is a cheap and readily available supplement.

The inclusion of egg lecithin, a mixture of phosphatidylcholines, in assays of solubilized 5a-reductase enhanced activity. The 2.2-fold increase in nuclear 5a-reductase activity was sufficient to completely restore the membrane-bound specific activity, but the enhancement of the microsomal 5a-reductase (1.3-fold) was not sufficient in this respect.

I feel it’s important to remind people that this is all test tube science. i have no idea if egg lecithin supplementation will be of any benefit, as no studies have investigated the effect of this supplement on androgen levels in people. but i can say with a fair amount of certainty it won’t hurt you.

Regards,

MarioBros.

#25

This is funny, I take Soy Lecithin every day.
It has 400mg of Phosphatidylcholine in it per softgel.
It’s cheap and good for the nervous system which is why I take it.

#26

Update on this protocol:

It s been 3 days i am taking phosphatidylserine and eating chickens hearts. Although i am not feeling a radical improvement there are definetely signs that this path is worth more investigation. The best result has been from the chicken hearts (who would think…). I am feeling hornier in the hours after i eat them, plus my orgasm is stronger if i masturbate at that time.
With the phosphatidylserine pills, i did not feel hornier, but my balls are CLEARLY fuller, they are hanging closer to the body and two reflexes seem to be back: 1. My balls contract when i ejaculate, 2. My balls get fuller while i am wacthing porn.

So i will keep doing this, but i will increase the dose of the supplement. It seems that PS from soy is not as strong as the animal source, so i am still thinking of a safe way to try the pure substance.

#27

I’m going to up my dose to 800mg in the AM and in the PM…

#28

Yeah, as i understand it soy derived phospholipids have shorter acyl chains than animal or synthetic phospholipids. This may or may not be a problem as the thing that makes dilauroyl phosphatidylcholine such a potent activator of 5 alpha reductase (in vitro) is that it has an acyl chain length of 12 carbon atoms. i think egg lecithin is basically a mixture of different acyl chain lengths so you’ll be getting some hit and miss.

#29

Yet another study on phospholipids and 5 alpha reductase. It’s done on rat liver in vitro but still, this study provides consistent results with other studies posted here: phospholipids have the ability to increase 5ar2 activity in the lab.

Some properties of progesterone 5 alpha-reductase solubilized from rat liver microsomes.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3124852

Unlike NADPH-cytochrome c reductase, phosphatidylcholine increased the activity of the partially purified 5 alpha-reductase about 2.5 fold. Phosphatidylserine also enhanced the activity to an extent identical for phosphatidylcholine. Phosphatidic acid and lysophosphatidylcholine were stimulatory to lesser extents.

Now if we could just find a study done on real live humans… i imagine with the general view amongst society at large of 5ar and DHT being a “boogie man” hormone, finding a way to increase 5ar2 activity in humans is probably not very high on the medical study priority list.

#30

I was curious as to whether phospholipids were injectable if it was to turn out that oral ingestion was ineffective. turns out they are so, yeah thumbs up!

Here’s a study where they injected a mouse with phosphatidylserine.

Normalization of liver glucosylceramide levels in the “Gaucher” mouse by phosphatidylserine injection.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3358758

#31

what is the current status of members taking phosphatidylserine?

#32

My update on Phosphatidyl Serine:

I took no more than six pills of 100 mg each, one a day. After each pill i waited a couple of days before taking another one. Since the first time i felt my metabolism was faster. I was feeling like my adrenals were not working properly (little energy, fatigue, etc). The days i took PS, i felt very energetic, thinking clearer, more optimistic and so on. The following day i felt a hangover feeling, dizziness and headaches. This is the reason i took only six pills and i am not taking any again.

BUT…
Libido is a little higher. Sack is fuller and balls hang close to body again. My sack now contracts when i ejaculate, similar to how it was before fin. After orgasm, the feeling of reward satisfies my brain (Finally!! Even not being as strong as it was). Overall i call my experience with it very good. I feel mentally closer to my old self again and i am even considering starting a “partial recovery” post of mine. I am just waiting longer to see how long the effect lasts. So far, so good.
In brief, i think PS restarted my adrenals somehow… or the connection between my adrenals and brain… Or, the way my body reacted to PS (not the drug effect itself), restarted my adrenals. This is the best i can explain it. I don’t know if it would work for everyone, more and more i see that finasteride creates a cascade of damage in different ways for each person.
If anyone wants to try this, my advice is to start with a dose lower than 100 mgs, and increase it slowly if needed. If you feel dizzy, stop it.
I still have an adrenal friendly diet (gluten free, no sugar, no caffeine, no processed foods). I plan to continue this way, i am finally feeling better, i am not going to change a thing!!!
I am able to masturbate or have sex every night. Some nights it takes long to ejaculate, but it is fine. I don’t have any desire of sex in the morning, but i have always been like this, always hornier at night. Erection is normal when laying down or sideways, so i am able to have sex in some positions so it is good. I even was able to keep an erection when standing one day, i was so happy i asked the girl to knee down and give me a blowjob, LOL.
What has not changed:

  • sensitivity on penis still little compared to how it was
  • libido lower than how it was
  • spontaneous erections still lacking
  • Ejaculate volume and strengh (little, weak)

What has improved:

  • Erection is normal when laying down, just need to stimulate with hand for 15 seconds or so to achive full erection.
  • I am having morning erections everyday. Most days full size.
  • Stronger orgasm. It seems now my brain gets satisfied after i ejaculate. It is been like this for over a month.
  • Energy level, optimism.
  • Mentally i am feeling so much better. I realize now this is what bothered me the most… I am finally making plans again about work, life, dating, so it is clear i have improved.

I am just very cautious, i don’t want to get disapointed. I ve had enough of this. This is the reason i had not posted yet about this. Please don’t get your hopes too high or post this as “the cure”. Just try it if you want, start low dose, observe your body reactions. I honestly think PS may not work for all of us. Our bodies are not only the result of the damage created by Finasteride but also the sum of the protocols, diets, and medications we tried to overcome this syndrome, plus genetics of course. So each one is in a different spot now. I had to use Prednisone last year (lung inflamation, allergies) and Prednisone seemed to have turned off my adrenals which pretty much ended the depression, and excess cortisol i had since quiting Finasteride, but on the other hand made me lethargic, slow, and with even less desire for sex. Now PS seems to have restarted my adrenals, WITHOUT creating depression or excess cortisol symptoms.
I am taking a break of the site, i need to live a little. Good luck to everyone, i will come back to post updates and if things keep this way long enough i will create my partial recovery post.

#33

interesting thread , i had my cortisol levels checked via saliva and they were extremely high.

#34

Thanks Corriovip.

I may look into this route in a few months when I come back to the US for a visa renewal. Please keep us updated…

Interesting enough you seemed to have the same reaction that I had with iodine, but I missed the lasting benefit.

#35

do you need prescription for this stuff or is it availible as a supp?

#36

It’s available through vitamin stores:

vitacost.com/productResults. … l%20Serine

#37

This seems one of the most promising things to try in my opinion. Some time has passed since some of you have tried this. Have you had any success by taking this supplement?

#38

I wouldnt be taking this one if your cortisol is already low. Best run it by your doc if you’re in doubt.

#39

Bovine brain 713
Atlantic mackerel 480
Chicken heart 414
Atlantic herring 360

These substances contain the highest amounts of Phosphatidylserine. Instead of trying supplements why not work your way down the list and eat these foods? One of the core staples of the Russian diet (I’m living here now) is Herring. I started eating it a few times a week. It’s really quite good after your palate adjusts, full of omega 3s and this substance. I do feel good every time I eat herring. I’e started to crave it and sleep and dream much better when I eat it.

Honestly guys, I know the studies used cow brains, which are probably the best source, but if you look at how much herring you’d eat for a meal compared to how few cow brains you’d eat you’re probably getting more with the herring. Two servings of herring = 720 which is higher than the cow brains. Plus it’s one of the foods that allow the russians to drink like fish and not be so affected.

I honestly think we’re going to be better off by consuming these things in natural substances if at all possible rather than in derived pill form.

#40

I’m becoming more convinced that herring is good. The last 2 nights I’ve eaten herring before bed and woken up more refreshed and dreamt more than I have in at least 4 months.

If anyone wants to try it just get some herring with dark, hard bread or eat it with boiled potatoes. It’s salty so it will make you thirsty, try it a few hours before bed, 3+ is best.