PFS suferred from Australia, Need Assistance!

Member Stories
#21

Nice post bro thanks for the info.

The reason why I am taking the Tamoxifen was to reduce potential leydig cell desentization that occurs with HCG usage. I noticed after my last restart (HCG followed by Clomid,Nolva) that in the first few weeks i got a good response but that resulted in a plateau at week 3 due to high E2 and any further HCG injections were useless. Trying to circumvent this from occuring again by 20mg Tamoxifen and 0.5mg Arimidex daily during HCG/HMG stage. I am not at the stage yet to even think about GNRH activation as until my boys are back to full size/Near Full Size and function as they should be, any GNRH activation at this point will not produce any lasting effect. Once the HCG/HMG has run its course, Total T, Free T, E2 and all the markers are set and the nuts have come back from atrophy, I will transition to 20mg Tamoxifen & 50mg Clomid immediately to support the Hypothalamus/Pituitary into producing GNRH (and hence LH/FSH). Hopefully any negative estrogen activity caused by the Tamoxifen in the prostate (or any other area that Tamoxifen exhibits estrogenic activity) will be circumvented by Arimidex.

jbc.org/content/256/4/1915.full.pdf (nice bit of reading re Taxmoifen’s ability to reduce leydig cell desentization)

Whats your protocol look like?

#22

Good luck! Keep us updated.

#23

What ultimately happened to oneday? Did he get his day in the sun?

#24

man
have you recovered any of your nut size with the previous cycle with tamoxifen?
i have yet to find someone who has post finasteride
and i mean serious recover like go from 15-20 ml to 40 or at least 30. not small daily fluctuations etc heavier in the morning lighter at night

#25

solonjk

On my previous restart at between weeks 2 and 3 i went from 25ml up to 32ml, then ultimately back down to 27-28ml. I notice if I fuck alot i get a loss of size too. Your last post regarding Tamoxifen got me thinking and researching. I’ve decided to drop the tamoxifen until only after the recovery of my natural test/nuts (Phase 2) due to the fact that HCG induced leydig cell desensitization does not seem to occur at clinical doses (Under 5000iu/day as confirmed by Michael C Scally).

Not to discourage you bro, but i don’t believe Tamoxifen on its own is enough to recover your nuts. Does it increase serum T though? Fuck yeah, so keep going with it and let me know how you go on your labs (pre-tamox & post-tamox). It should be used post-HCG/HMG to act as a supporting and stimulation aid (alongside clomid) to induce the Hypothalamus/Pituitary to pump out more LH/FSH. To be honest i don’t think even HCG alone can help those of us who have been shutdown for an extended period either. The addition of HMG or an rFSH should be included at the point where there is a plateau with HCG stimulation. Unfortunately this shit is pretty fukin expensive, luckily i’ve managed to procure 10 x 75iu shots at $23 each (if you need help with procurement of meds, PM me i’ll explain the process).

Deadballs

As for Oneday I have no idea dude, i certainly hope he recovered. He does not seem to be an active member anymore so either recovered or accepted his fate.

So only 1 week away from my restart now All meds have been procured, I’ve got an endocrinologist on stand-by monitoring me. Diet has been sorted out, all depression/anxiety symptoms due to high cortisol are now under control. weight training routine has begun.

pre-restart labs are in:

LH: 4.7 (1.0-9.8) * normal
FSH: 5.5 (1.0-9.8) * normal
Total T: 12.2 (12-31) * very low total T
Free T: 208 (260-780) * Hypogonadal range
Cortisol: 320 (55-370) * normal-high however much improved
SHBG: 41 (20-58) * normal-high
E2: 58 (<150) * normal but will rise as T rises.

nuts currently sitting at 27.5 ML

Beekay

#26

Last night begun the protocol … HCG 2000iu, HMG 75iu, 0.5mg Arimidex, 10mg Tamoxifen
… an hour and a half after my injections paid a visit to my former massage therapist turned mistress, everything worked a treat and woke up with insane morning wood. obviously would not expect any increases in testicular volume this early in the protocol. I wonder if i should ease up on the sex a little instead of unloading my shit every few days to get a real feel for any increases in testicular volume.

Would be interesting to see what my labs would indicate at this point in time as well (HCG challenge test theory).

#27

I would abstain from sexual activity during the treatment. No point putting extra stress on your body.

#28

good point cap.

#29

Rightio Gents three injections of HCG 2000iu + HMG 75iu into the routine. Arimidex at 0.5mg EOD also being used. So far so good, My libido has come back dramatically and also ED symptoms and erection strength have vastly improved. Semen quality and quantity has shown a slight improvement. Testicular size and weight has improved, not dramatically but definitely some improvement. Should have stopped having sex with my GF and my mistress (as cap has indicated) but i really just want to test my shit out, i will however drop it to once or twice per week with no jerking off to give my nuts some room to recover. Just a note that my hair loss has also increased, as well as an increase in chest & body hair plus a little bit of acne as well. The irony here is that i’m actually glad when my scalp starts to shed more hair as it indicates that DHT is starting to flow through my system. To cover up the thinning i’ve been using some TOPPIK (topical powder) which works a treat to make your hair look thicker lol.

As it stands I have 7 more injections to go and i’m just trying to figure out whether or not i should continue the HCG/HMG after the 7 shots have finished and switch straight to the clomid/nolva or continue until I see some serious results with nut size and then switch to clomid/nolva. I will be seeing my GP to ask for another 11 shots and extend phase 1 for another month. I believe the cut-off point from my roid cycle days was always 8-12 weeks of down-time for your hypothalamus/pituitary so this should not be a major issue. The only thing that is spooking me a little is LH receptor down-regulation with constant HCG/HMG use but like I said, 2 months should be fine and at the doses im using there should be minimal leydig cell desensitization with the doses/schedule. Even if i don’t get a full recovery after the 2 months of HCG/HMG I will switch to phase 2 of Clomid/Nolva for a month with 2 weeks of tapering off to retain all my recovery gains. Then I’ll take a month off to let my system cool down and repeat the process again to make more inroads to recovery.

Looks like I’m on the path of recovery but don’t want to give you all false hope just yet, but i’m certainly heading in the right direction.

over and out.

Beekay

#30

The true test will be if everything sticks once you’re not on anything.Hope it does. Good luck!

#31

Gentleman… Just got my results from my first labs on treatment and the results look very promising!

LH 0.1 (Low but as expected)
FSH 0.8 (Low but as expected)
Total T 37 (Extremely high- well above the range)
Free T 857 (Very high- slightly above the range)
Estradiol 40 (Spot on)
Prolactin 103 (Spot on)
SHBG 41 (Still slightly high but nothing to be worried about)

What I can conclude from these labs:

  • I have excellent leydig cell reserve and the labs proves this. As total T has now come in at over 3 times the pre-treatment labs I definitely do not have primary hypogonadism (testicular failure). Secondary Hypogonadism proven (Central / hypothalamus/Pituitary origin)… As this is a treatable form, it has lifted a whole lot of stress from my shoulders (phew!).
  • I have an excellent chance of re-setting my HPTA axis up as the Total T will no doubt drop when i drop the HCG/HMG. Hopefully this will reset to the 23-27 Total T amount which is my main goal post treatment.
  • In terms of testicular size I am no longer looking at this as the be all and end all determinant with regard to recovery. I’ve had a chat with some gents on the Meso-Rx board and they have confirmed with me as long as my labs and semen analysis come back normal post-treatment, over time as intra-testicular testosterone stabilizes that I should expect to see a slow but gradual increase in testicular size and semen volume. currently sitting at 30ML size which isnt too bad i suppose! Nevertheless testicular size is not a determinant of testicular function (not a 1-1 relation).
  • In terms of symptoms, I definitely have a heap more energy, drive and motivation. depression and anxiety symptoms have all but disappeared. Libido has definitely increased and I cannot remember the last time I have not been able to get a decent erection. My hair is still shedding and body hair is increasing drastically which tells me that DHT is flooding my system. On my next labs I will be testing for this also. Semen volume, texture and consistency have also improved, i no longer get any testicular aches or pains after sex as well. Still a far cry from pre-fin days but again a step in the right direction for sure.

There are still outstanding questions of course such as whether or not this is gonna stick, will I be able to reset up etc… All I can safely say at this point is all signs point to yes but … we will see!

At this point in time I am only 5 more injections away from completion of phase 1. As discussed on my previous post I was considering extending stage 1 for another 10 or 11 shots of HCG/HMG but as the labs indicate, I do not believe this is necessary at this point and the risks of testicular desensitization outweight the potential gains I will receive. I will definitely be switching to phase 2 of the clomid/nolva to kick-start my Hypothalamus/Pituitary to retain my advancements.

Over & out

Beekay

#32

Good luck!

#33

Updates?

#34

I’ve recovered to a point, what i’ve noticed:

  • Libido: slight improvement.
  • Erectile Dysfunction: definite improvement here but a far cry from pre-fin.
  • Testicular Size: Status Quo, no significant permanent improvement
  • Semen Quality: Definitely seen some improvement here, more volume, less watery etc.
  • Mental Sides: I believe these are mainly caused by anxiety / depression, so to combat this i’ve just stopped stressing about shit and definitely have more clarity of mind.
  • Fatigue: Definite improvement here, although i’m not sure if i can attribute it to the treatment as opposed to sorting out the depression/anxiety.

Still waiting on the medication to clear my system thoroughly before i’ll go in for some lab tests.

Either way man i’ve accepted my fate here, I really don’t give a shit anymore if i recover 100% as long as my dick works, I can have sex once per day and i’m still fertile, I really don’t give a damn about testicular size. In the grand scheme of things a few cubit centimeters of size to my nuts isnt going to make my life any better lol. Life is too short to be stressing over trivial shit like this. From here onwards i’m throwing out all Pharmaceuticals and heading straight down the natural way and try to improve upon this further by sorting out my diet, exercise and supplements regime. May even go to see a Naturopath to help out. At the end of the day if your body fails you in any way its your duty to keep the mind intact and reading these message boards does nothing for clarity of mind. I honestly do not believe there is a solid “cure” to be found by way of medication. Yes you may see some improvement but again what are we risking? it was Meds that got us here in the first place.

Anyhow I would definitely recommend the treatment i described if only for a slight boost in the right direction but long term I wouldn’t stay on this shit.

#35

what are the ranges for those labs?

Do you know if estrogen directly suppresses leydig cells? I read an study about it a while back. COuld explain shrinkage even on HCG?

#36

Are you able to have sex or have any libido? I don’t think I will ever have erections ever . Is that possible. To go your whole life with no erections or ejaculation?

#37

vincentv check out my previous post above. Should have the reference ranges listed there.

bob4347 i feel for you man, hang in there bro. what seems to be going on exactly dude? I am able to achieve erections and have sex. Libido is hit and miss. I don’t remember the last time i’ve actually felt horny. When i ejaculate fuck all comes out though. Almost like my pistons aren’t lubricated anymore. Doesn’t feel no way near as good as it used to but what can ya do man, water under the bridge can’t trip out on this shit life is too short to stress over this shit.

How long have you been like this? What do your lab results say? What are your symptoms besides no erections? Have your balls shrunk? fill me in…

Beekay

#38

Estradiol 40 (Spot on)

E2: 58 (<150) * normal but will rise as T rises.

Hmm so you got your T to go up and your e2 to go down and you did not recover?

#39

I Recovered to a point. I was having ED and shot libido. Libido is hit and miss now, every now and then it pokes its head and ED is pretty much under control. Testicular size has not improved dramatically. Semen volume and texture improve a little but not as much as i would have liked it too. Energy has increased somewhat and fatigue has dissipated to a degree. Not %100 recovered but feel much better.

Might give it another crack at some point at the end of this month. This time I’m gonna run HCG ever second day for 2 weeks. Go at it real aggressive, with a few shots of HMG in the mix. concurrently run the Nolva & Clomid from day 1 and continue forth. I recovered a little last time so hopefully this gets me back another 20%

The biggest thing for me however was to minimize the amount of stress as much as possible.

#40

“Last night begun the protocol … HCG 2000iu, HMG 75iu, 0.5mg Arimidex, 10mg Tamoxifen
… an hour and a half after my injections paid a visit to my former massage therapist turned mistress, everything worked a treat and woke up with insane morning wood”

Can you clarify – At this point in time, right at the start. Was your libido better? Did you see her because you were horny? I guess so? For me now sex is the last thing i am intersted in and would not go to any effort to do it.

I also got the morning wood when fixing my hormones and libido.

So can we say you hit a good ratio for a while here and were recovered? If you maintained at that point would you be 100 percent recovered?