PFS (Since 2010-2011), Currently Taking 50mg Clomid 3x/Week

Member Stories
#1

  1. Where are you from (country)? United States.

  2. How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?) The Examiner (online), which linked me to this site.

  3. What is your current age, height, weight? 34; 5’,9"; 150.

  4. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise? Yes (weightlifting), but not nearly the volume I used to.

  5. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)? Mostly organic meats, fruits, and vegetables.

  6. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)? Hairloss

  7. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)? Approximately 6 years

  8. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride? 25 (March, 2005)

  9. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit? 31, (mid-2011)

  10. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)? Tapered off.

  11. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic? Generic Dutasteride

  12. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)? .5mg/day

  13. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects? Dutasteride - about 5 years into it.

  14. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[X] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[ ] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[X] Loss of Morning Erections
[X] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[X] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[X] Watery Ejaculate
[X] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[?] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[X] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[X] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[X] Confusion
[X] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[X] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[X] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ ] Severe Depression / Melancholy
[ ] Suicidal Thoughts

Physical
[ ] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[X] Testicular Pain
[X] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[X] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[X] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[X] Muscle Wastage
[X] Muscle Weakness
[X] Joint Pain
[ ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[X] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[X] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[X] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[X] Increased hair loss
[X] Frequent urination
[ ] Lowered body temperature

[ ] Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?

Other than trying to continue my exercise routine (best as I can), I have tried eating a super-clean diet, and (more recently) taking Clomiphene (Clomid) 50mg. 3X/week.

  1. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

I don’t have copies on hand, but they all reflect secondary hypogonadism: Low T, and higher E2, SHBG.

  1. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

  2. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

I started using Finasteride in 2005. Not seeing the results I wanted fast enough, I stupidly switched to the more potent Dutasteride, which I took for about 6 years. After about 5 years, however, I started noticing a bit of muscle loss, combined with decreased energy/libido, and some gynecomastia setting in. At first, I thought “okay, I’m in my 30’s now; I’m just getting older; I had a good run” As the combination of symptoms continued, I became more and more concerned and suspicious of Dutasteride, so I switched back to the “weaker” Finasteride.

However, things continued to deteriorate quickly after that. So I went to my primary care physician in early 2011, and asked for a referral to see an Endocrinologist because I knew there was a hormonal issue. Of course, she didn’t take my concerns seriously and refused to give me the referral. Instead, she offered Cialis and a referral to see a mental health doctor, which I refused. Nevertheless, she did order a blood test for total testosterone, which came back high-norm at 851. Ignorant at the time about the significance of Free T, E2, SHBG, Etc, I thought maybe something else was making me feel like crap and my body was falling apart due to aging and diet. But I was wrong again; even after switching to a freakishly clean diet, my symptoms kept getting worse.

I should pause to mention that both before and during the course of these drugs, I was an avid bodybuilder who was naturally highly anabolic and had a genetically-gifted physique. So much so that I was frequently accused of using steroids. I was also hyper-sexual - had to have sex (or jerk off) between 2 and 10 times a day. This all came to an abrupt end though. After quitting Dutasteride, everything went to crap. I lost all of the above qualities. I went from a 5’9", 160lb. muscular frame with 6% bodyfat and high energy/libido, to a scrawny/decrepit-looking (and feeling) 135lb. frame with 20% bodyfat and no energy/libido.

During the rest of 2011, I continued to bitch about my problems to my PC. However, she seemed to want the problem to be anything but hormonal. It was either in my head, a digestive issue, or rheumatoid arthritis, etc. She sent me to a rheumatologist, a digestive specialist (where I had an endoscopy/colonoscopy), which all checked out fine. Having enough of her BS, in 2012 I fired her ass and found another PC. I picked him because his specialty was Internal Medicine and he was Harvard Medical School Grad. Although he was much older in age, and probably less likely to be “cutting edge,” he was old-school in the sense that he was willing to listen to me and order more comprehensive blood work after examination. By the time of that test (Sept. 2012), I was feeling much worse and had lower Total T (500’s). Although he said my levels were still in the normal range, given my symptoms, he gave me a referral to see an Endocrinologist down in Boston…Dr. Shalender Bhasin. By the time Dr. Bhasin had me tested in Oct. 2012, my T levels had dropped even further (300’s) and was diagnosed with Secondary Hypogonadism (Low LH/FSH). The BW also ruled out any other systemic underlying disease, and an MRI ruled out a pituitary tumor (although there was a “small, insignificant” lesion there). After refusing TRT, I was placed on Clomid 25mg/day. During the first few weeks, my total T levels shot up to 1073 and I was feeling somewhat better. Free T however, was still lowish-norm. (high E2 and SHBG), which probably accounts for the “somewhat.”

Progress with the Endo has still been slow at best. Appointments are at least 3 months apart, and when my doctor moved to another hospital in late 2012 / early 2013, I had to play musical doctors for a while until I could switch insurance and follow him over there. I am now on my second trial of Clomid. This time, it’s 50mg. 3x/week, and there wasn’t much of a “spike” in improvement. Although I have gained a little weight during both rounds of clomid, it’s been with the help of weight-gainer/protein powder, and it hasn’t been quality weight; i.e more fat in chest (gyno) and lower abdomen. But the clomid has slightly improved my energy levels, at least to the point where I can exercise a little.

Right now, I’m still at a loss and am waiting for my next followup appointment with the Endo. I feel like I can’t bitch about Clomid not helping that much, or he will push for TRT again. My background is strikingly similar to “Legendary’s” (member on this forum), but my Endo, although at the apex of his profession in the US, is still pretty conservative when it comes to treatment. In any event, I will continue to update everyone with any major developments…

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#2

Here is my blood work before, during, and after my first round of Clomid - where I was taking 25mg/day.

Pre-Clomid (8/6/12):
Total T: 534 (250-1100)
Free T: 81.7 (35.0-155.0)
DHT: N/A
TSH, 3rd Gen: 2.02 (.40-4.5)
Prolactin: 17.5 (2.02-18.0)
LH: 3.7 (1.5-9.3)
FSH: 3.6 (1.6-8.0)
Estradiol: 24 (< OR = 39)
Vitamin D 25, OH, Total/D3: Both 31 (30-100)
Androstenedione: N/A

*Note: There was another blood test performed in Oct. 2012, when I saw the Endo. for the first time. I don’t have the results on hand, but I distinctly remember that my Total T had dropped to the 300’s and my Free T (which was tested for the first time) was far below the normal range. This was when I was officially diagnosed with Hypogonatropic (Secondary) Hypogonadism.

During Clomid [12/31/12 - 5 weeks in)]:
Total T: 1073 (250-1100)
Free T: 118.8 (46-224)
SHBG: 48 (10-50)
BioAv T: 265.1 (110-575)
Serum Albumin: 4.9 (3.6-5.1)
Androstenedione: 112 (40-190)
Vitamin D 25, OH, Total/D3: 29 (30-100) L
Estradiol: 50 (< OR = 39) H
LH: 8.2 (1.5-9.3)
FSH: 8.2 (1.6-8.0) H
Prolactin: 5.9 (2.0-18.0)
TSH, 3rd Gen: 1.61 (.40-4.50)
DHT: 88 (16-79) H

*At the time this blood work was taken, I felt the most improvement as I ever had up to now. However, we’re only talking about a 30-40% improvement in a few of my symptoms (like energy, mood). Moreover, those improvements seemed to be pronounced at only the 4-6 week mark, and seemed to fade out for some reason towards the end of my 2 months on Clomid. The next round of blood work confirmed this:

During Clomid [1/28/13 (8 weeks in)]:
Total T: 856 (250-1100)
Free T: 104 (46.0-224.0)
BioAv T: 213.9 (110-575)
SHBG: 42 (10-50)
Serum Albumin: 4.5 (3.6-5.1)
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive: 44 (< OR = 29)
Estrone Sulfate: 1563 (230-2200)
FSH 7.5 (1.6-8.0)
LH: 6.2 (1.5-9.3)
PSA, Total: 0.3 (< OR = 4.0)

Another Endocrinologist took over (young resident) during this period after Dr. Bhasin moved to another Hospital. She had me come off Clomid (no taper) after about 2 months of treatment. Within a couple of weeks, I started feeling like absolute crap again. “Give it some time, she says.” But sure enough, 3 months later, my tests were as follows:

Post-Clomid [4/26/13 (3 months after stopping Clomid)]:
Vitamin D: 25, OH, Total/D3: 38 (30-100) *
TSH: 1.66 (0.40-4.50)
Total T: 391 (250-1100)
Free T: 38.6 (46.0-224) L
BioAv T: 84.5 (110.575) L
SHBG: 45 (10-50)
Serum Albumin: 4.8 (3.6-5.1)
IGF 1: 201 (53-331)
Z Score Male: 0.7 (-2.0 - +2.0)
DHT: 47 (16-79)
LH: 2.1 (1.5-9.3)
FSH: 3.6 (1.6-8.0)
Estradiol: 23 (< OR = 39)

*I had been taking 2,000IUs/day for 4 months just to get this very small improvement.

#3

Update:

Saw Dr. Bhasin last Friday for the first time at Brigham & Womens. I had to recap everything with him, and he had to do the whole physical exam/questioning thing again, so it may as well have been the first time seeing him ever. He wants me to get a followup MRI for the small lesion they found on my pituitary a year ago, which I am a little nervous about (even though I know that about 1/5 of the general pop has them).

I didn’t get into discussing Legendary’s post. First of all, he didn’t want to discuss treatment at all until he saw some recent blood work - which I underwent that day. Secondly, I am now fully convinced that he isn’t going to do anything outside of mainstream/accepted standards to treat me. He says that the goal is to simply put my testosterone in the middle of the range because that works well for most hypogonadal men. What worries me is that I highly doubt I was a genetic freak (before PFS) due to “middle of the range” testosterone. Or could I have been? I sure hope he’s talking about Free T because I know that when my total is in the 800’s I still feel like absolute shit - presumably due to high E2/SHBG.

In any event, he just doesn’t seem interested in individualized treatment, so there goes that. But fuck it, I will just keep complaining to him until I look and feel “normal” again. Not to sound like an asshole, but I was WAAAY better off than most men before PFS, and I ain’t shuttin up until I get that back. I think many here can relate to that.

One bright spot is that he mentioned the PFS studies that were underway, and that after they get some data they will have a much better understanding of how to treat this problem.

#4

Update: I started Letro 1/4 tab. (.625mg) EOD to try to combat gyno - which I feel clomid aggravates. I did this without consulting my endo because he seems to discount many of my symptoms and how they affect me. For example, he thinks my gyno is nothing to be concerned about - “most men have a little breast tissue.” I don’t really know if it’s proper gyno or not (because there’s also the same stubborn fat in my lower abs/hips), but it’s so disgusting to me that I can’t go to the pool, beach, etc.

I started letro 2 weeks before my last BW, so we’ll see if it legit or not (I ordered online from the same source I used to get my Dut/Fin). I haven’t noticed any improvements. The only thing I noticed is that when I initially started on 1/4 tab every day, I experienced debilitating fatigue. When I backed off to EOD, I immediately returned to my “normal” PFS self.

#5

I’m at my wits’ end here and cannot go on any longer feeling this awful. I am on my 2nd attempt with Clomid and have been 50mg 3x week for about 5 months now.

In the first few weeks of (both attempts of) Clomid, I could feel a slight improvement. The first time, about 5 weeks in, my total T shot up to 1073 (w/ a max ref. range of 1100); Although it was only about a 30-40% improvement, that was the best I had felt since having PFS. But then after 2 months or so, T dropped down to about 830 and I could definitely feel the loss. I haven’t got any results back yet for this round. But I’m certain the same thing has happened since I feel awful… that my HPTA becomes desensitized or something, my T drops off, and I start feeling like crap again.

At first, I thought it might be Clomid causing E2/SHBG to increase and shutting the HPTA back down; so I started taking Letro .625 mg (1/4 tab) EOD. It hasn’t helped… or it’s fake (doc won’t prescribe me an AI, so I have to get it from at my old finasteride supplier). So I’m at a complete loss here.

I’m 34, and at this point, I feel like I’ve completely lost the past 3 years of my life. I simply can’t stomach the thought of going on any longer feeling like I’m 84 (literally). I have absolutely no energy, can’t exercise (used to be into weightlifting), no interest in sex, look deformed, (due to losing so much muscle mass), gynecomastia, brain-fog / career down the crapper, the list goes on… Even when engaging in simple, non-strenuous activities, I feel like I’m going to break a bone or tear a tendon/ligament (again, I’m not exaggerating here). So I know that this PFS thing is causing an extremely unhealthy state.

I also HATE the idea of TRT, but feel like I have to at least try it out because I think that’s the only other option my Endo. is going to give me. With that said, if anyone has any other alternative suggestions or TRT success/horror stories… I also plan on asking for something like HCG to maintain fertility and keep my balls from shrinking (further).

**Oh, and one other thing that has me concerned: When my T shot up to 1073 in my first round of Clomid, my free T was just below the middle of the ref. range. Again, I only felt about 30-40% improvement and it was very short-lived. I’ve also had two other blood tests where total T was 851 and 830 (mentioned above), and both times I still felt horrible. I don’t know what free T was during the 851 test (it wasn’t checked), but the 830 test also showed SHBG and E2 at the top of the range, and free T in the low-normal range. So clearly, if all of this PFS stuff is testosterone-related as my Endos. seem to believe, then I need to get my free T much higher than the middle of the range in order to feel any improvement…since my body has somehow become desensitized and doesn’t get much benefit from “normal” levels. Am I correct?

#6

That is one of the theories which has been discussed. Note Dr. Crisler’s comments about needing to get T levels 50% above range for effect.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6094&p=50341&hilit=crisler+resistance#p50341

#7

Thanks Mew. Dr. Crisler seems to be way ahead of the curb here.

I even mentioned my “theory” to my Endo, Dr. Bhasin, during my last visit. I told him that, given my history of BW and how I felt at each time, I think I need to get my Free T in the upper quartile of the range in order to feel normal; but I was disappointed when he replied, “ohhh no, getting your T into the middle of the range works well for most hypogonadal men, so that is the goal.”

Since we all know that PFS is not run-of-the-mill hypogonadism, and I now feel validated by Dr. Crisler on what the therapeutic level of free T should be for us, I will push him harder when I see him next week…see how that goes. If by some chance he agrees, the question will be: what is the best way to achieve this? A SERM or TRT?

For me, Clomid raises T well, but also E2/SHBG, which keeps free T at sub-therapeutic levels and also shuts the HPTA back down a bit. I’ve suggested an AI for this problem, but both Endos I’ve seen keep refusing (and that really pisses me off because fertility docs prescribe Arimidex like it’s Pez candy).

In any event, he is most likely going to put me on TRT. And after he gets my free T in the middle of the range, does nothing about keeping E2/SHBG in check, and I accordingly still feel like shit…I’ll probably give up on him and give Crisler a call.

#8

greatttttt Dr. Bhasin doesnt seem to have a damn clue of whats going on here. But I am glad he is sponsoring the studies.

#9

Update: I just had another visit with Dr. Bhasin yesterday. As noted in previous posts, I have been on Clomid 50mg 3x/week and had also added Letro 1/4 tab EOD to try to ward off further gyno. My most recent blood work was as follows:

LH: 7.4 (1.7-8.6)
TT: 666.8 (249-836)
FT: 11.2 (13.5-39.1)*
Prolact: 4.7 (4.04-15.2)
E2: 22 (8-37)*

*Dr. Bhasin said the ref. range displayed here was incorrect and that my Free T was actually high/norm. (at about the 60 percentile range, as was Total T). He showed me the proper conversion and it was like 160 pg/nl. I was unable to login to the portal and verify this however). I was surprised that my E2 was in range this time (apparently the Letro I was taking is legit).

So that is what the blood work says; however, I still FEEL like crap (hypogonadal). I feel like that my Free T is actually below range as the FT number above indicates.

The good news is that Dr. Bhasin seemed to trust what I was telling him about not feeling right and was open to the idea of possible androgen receptor resistance. I had faxed him a long letter that summarized my hormonal history, Clomid results, and the information that Mew pointed out to me a few days ago. He also admitted that he has observed a slight disconnect between the clinical studies (reference ranges) and his real-life, individual patients. That’s the good news…

The bad news is that I am going to have to resort to TRT (at least for now). Dr. Bhasin said that I could stay on the Clomid if I wanted to, but that an AI was a bad idea (especially long-term). He showed me the studies regarding bone density, etc., and I am now inclined to agree with him. He said the Clomid seems to work well for me (at least on paper), but it is extremely difficult to manipulate the dosage to find the right hormone balance. That is not the case with TRT. He said that he is willing to experiment with TRT to get my T at a therapeutic level - even if that means going slightly above range. He prescribed me Test. Cypionate injections, 125ml once a week. When I asked about the gel, he said he would prescribe that if I wanted but that it was way over-hyped by the pharmaceutical companies, there were absorption rate issues, etc.

But there’s more good news. He said I could experiment with the TRT for 1-2 years, the testicle shrinkage would be minimal (only noticeable to me or someone using a tape measure), and that the effects on fertility were completely reversible during that window of time. And here is the best news…he reiterated his optimism over the clinical studies and the likelihood of having a solution that addresses the root of the problem within the next couple of years.

In the meantime, I really hope TRT brings some relief. What I don’t recommend is for everyone else here that sees Dr. Bhasin to start bombarding him with demands for supra-physiological doses of T. So far (1 year), he has been extremely conservative/wary of “too much testosterone.” It seems like I am the first person he is actually willing to experiment with going slightly above range, and I don’t want him to get spooked. Besides, the starting dose he gave me isn’t likely to push my T that high anyway. I promise let everyone know if it helps, and update on any future increases in dosage.

I took my last Clomid pill yesterday (10/27) and will get myself jabbed for the first time next Friday. Wish me luck!

#10

Really?!? Did he say that?! Did he say at least why?! That’s really good news.

#11

Well, he didn’t say “I’m optimistic…” But when we were discussing how long I could try out TRT without risking permanent fertility/shrinkage issues (1-2 years), and I said “maybe by that time you guys will have this whole PFS thing figured out…” before I could even finish that sentence he was already nodding his head in agreement (never saw him do that before). And then he said something to the effect that “it shouldn’t be too long after all the data comes out.” I took that as a very good sign (my instinct tells me that he knows more than he lets on since he has a hand in the study), but maybe I am being overly optimistic here… The last thing I want to do is be like those assholes on the hair loss forums that, over a decade ago, swore that a cure was right around the corner.

#12

Sound familiar? Please take care with the TRT.

#13

He has more than “a hand” in the study, he’s the lead investigator according to the press release. Of course everything is an educated guess at this point until data starts coming in. I’ve seen him too (this summer) and he did use the word “optimistic” for what it’s worth. It does seem they’re doing the logical 1st steps. I’m not so sure I’m personally optimistic enough to have hope for the next “couple of years” but I’d be very happy to be proven wrong.

#14

Hi all,

I have been meaning to update this thread anyway, so I am re-posting my response to a recent PM regarding TRT:

I am only on 125mg, which is just a modest increase over the standard 100mg that most doctors initially prescribe. My Endo. started me out a little higher because we observed that two Clomid trials didn’t get me feeling much better, even when Total T was at the top of the range and Free T was high-normal. I had mentioned the possibility of “androgen receptor resistance” (which this board brought to my attention) as being the culprit, and he was open to the idea of trying higher doses to get a therapeutic response.

I do feel a bit better but not nearly back to normal. I would say about 40% improvement from the TRT. If I wanted to remain on TRT, I would probably need at least 150mg. I told my Dr. at the outset that I was willing to try TRT for a few months, but I was not going to sacrifice my testicles for mediocre results. My next visit is at the end of the month, which will be 3 months on TRT. I am going to to tell him that I want to come off TRT and do a high dose of Clomid (100mg/day) for a month or so (I will have to sneak in my own HCG and AI), and then cruise on a lower dose of Clomid (which I won’t actually do for more than a couple more weeks).

My plan now is to make a “natural recovery.” After reading recovery stories like Legendary’s and cdnuts’s, and those that followed similar diet and supplement routines, I have seen more and more natural recoveries with distinct similarities in the methods used. I believe the reason that these natural recoveries have been so few and far between (until more recently) is because they take an insane amount of discipline and are not cheap. However, enough proof is there for me at this point, and I am willing to fully commit.

I have already started cutting crap out of my SAD diet (already feel better too), and plan to go completely Paleo [with some slight variation (slow) carb back-loading] by the new year when I start PCT. There’s no way I can fast for 2 WEEKS at a time, but I might throw in a weekend here and there. I am also not going to do the initial “Testosterone Recovery Stack” in cdnuts’s routine (that’s what my PCT is going to be for). I am just going to start taking the daily-alternating supplements after PCT, and keep a very strict diet and exercise routine (lift heavy 3-4x/week and HIIT 3-5x/week, depending on volume/intensity).

I will keep everyone posted on my progress.

#15

Stay focused and good luck.

#16

Okay, to sum up my current treatment as outlined in my other thread, I have employed Dr. Scally’s Restart Protocol (most of it, anyway). Bear in mind this protocol is for former steroid users that have developed stubborn secondary hypogonadism. Here is my routine:

HCG 5000iu’s - divided up into 1000iu’s EOD. This was all I could afford at the time. It only lasted me a week and I don’t think it had any effects/improvements whatsoever. So it was either fake or because I didn’t use the entire 20,000iu’s over 2 weeks. Doesn’t matter at this point though.

Clomid 100mg (50mg 2x/day), for 30 days.
Tamoxifen/Nolvadex 20mg (10mg 2x/day), for 45 days.
Aromasin 12.5mg/day

Multivitamin
Vitamin D (5000iu’s/day)
Fish (Wild Salmon) Oil 2x/day
Zinc Supplement (30mg/day)
Vitamin B-Complex EOD
Magnesium supplement EOD

I am also following a Paleo/Slow-Carb diet as outline in Legendary’s and Cdnuts’s program. I actually started this about half-way through my 3-month TRT trial (due to water/fat gain). I started feeling better very soon after starting the diet. Main reason I came off the TRT was because: (1) Pain in the ass (literally), didn’t want to lose my boys (which did shrink quite a bit), and it gave me dangerously high blood pressure.

I waited 2 weeks after stopping TRT to start the above medications. The first week was the toughest because much of the testosterone was out of my system, and the HCG/Clomid/Nolva hadn’t had time to kick in yet. However, the second week was the absolute BEST I’ve felt since PFS (3-4 years). The 3rd and 4th week may have tapered off a little bit, but I still feel much better than before. I am finishing the 4th week right now.

My balls have been slow to plump back up (I thought the hcg would help, but it didn’t). They are almost back to normal size now though. The Aromasin has been fantastic. Both Letro and Arimidex made me feel like shit in the past.

So far, my gyno has shrunk as I am much leaner. Muscle mass has improved somewhat, but I am still missing at least 10 pounds of it. I am 5’9, and my pre-PFS weight was 160 (6% BF). I am now 148 (135 was my lowest point during pfs). So I am about 50% improved right now (except for libido, which has been pretty dead during this protocol).

I’m about to come off the Clomid, and cruise on Nolva/Aromasin for 2 more weeks. I sure hope the improvement sticks/continues. Here is the plan going forward:

I plan on starting the testosterone recovery supplements recommended by Cdnuts. Not the hardcore stuff, just the 7 alternating T-Boosters. I am wondering if I should start these immediately after I finish the SERMS or wait/fast sometime in between? I am reluctant to fast because of how hard it is to maintain the little muscle mass I have left. I also fear that losing muscle mass might reverse the improvements to date.

Just thought I’d throw all this out there for what it’s worth. Any comments/suggestions at this point are welcome.

#17

Are planning to take AndroHard? If not?, then why not? It seems like AndroHard had a huge role in Cdnuts recovery.

#18

Renegade, any update after getting off Clomid?

#19

Sorry for the late reply…I haven’t been checking in much lately. Recovery has been going well so far.

I don’t have any current plans to use Androhard or any other prohormone. However, that may change if I hit a recovery plateau.

I have now been off Clomid for about 5 weeks. But I continued with the Nolva/Tamox for an 2 additional weeks. Been about 3 weeks since being “drug-free.” So far, no crash like in the past (which usually occurred within 10-14 days after discontinuation). However, I am not out of the woods yet. I was on a much higher dose this round so I plan to get blood-work and re-evaluate at the 6-week mark.

I can’t say enough about the Paleo/Slow-Carb diet. Cutting out bread, pasta, grains, dairy, etc. has stripped almost all of the PFS fat from my body and increased my energy 10-fold. It was tough as nails for the first week or two, so I can definitely see how people fail to make the transition. The whole thing about “needing a lot of carbs for energy” is complete bullshit. My daily carb intake is about 100-120 grams a day, but I also think the quality rather than the quantity of carbs is key. I get virtually all of my carbs from fruits and veggies, and that gives me enough energy for intense weightlifting and cardio.

That said, I still have a trace of gyno, which is visible depending on the tempurature. And I am still missing about 15lbs of muscle. I recently switched from my old bodybuilding workouts to the more basic Stronglifts 5x5 Program - trying to build more core strength. So far, I am gaining more strength, so I will continue with it.

The only regrets I have so far are: (1) Not doing the initial fast - b/c I was scared of losing more weight (I recommend doing at least a 2-3 day juice fast over a weekend); and (2) cheating too much on my diet - I recommend keeping it at least 80% strict (which is harder than it seems, as cheat meals/snacks add up quickly).

I will update again after my next round of blood-work.

#20

Renegade, how have things been going?