PFS related to ageing process?

General Discussion
#1

First of all, I’m not very scientifically literate so this is just my amateur opinion, just getting that out of the way.

However, I wonder if PFS is somehow related to the ageing process in humans. A quick google search reveals that aging is a poorly understood process, so I’m curious is the two processes somehow use the same mechanisms.

And if you think about it, all the symptoms are very similar. Loss of sexual function, muscle wastage, cognitive impairment, etc are all things everyone goes through getting older anyway. And just from an anecdotal experience, which I’m sure most of us can relate, I just feel like an old man sometimes, despite being in my 20s, mentally, physically, etc.

What do you guys think? Is there something there or am I just thinking out loud?

#2

Being 60 I felt sometimes at my bycicle like a 30 yo man, now I feel Like an 80 yo man. Wait to die. Interested in nothing, Motivation for nothing. Living more and more Like a desorientated Messi in a devasting Household.

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#3

A massive acceleration in ageing has occurred in many of us. For those that naturally heal it reverses. The male andrapause has most of our symptoms and is also linked to ageing

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#4

I think you have a point. Loss of muscle, loss of bone strength, loss of sleep, loss of appetite loss of desire and interest to do anything(including sex) are all indicators of ageing.

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#5

I think chronic use of Fin probably increase the cellular aging.

But that doesn’t mean that PFS is due to aging. People taking just a few pills and get full blown PFS seems unlikely to be due to some aging process.

Everything listed is also related to hormonal imbalances, for example.

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#6

There was an interesting study that we’ve linked to on pfsnetwork.org about the effects of finasteride in late-adolescent rats, which may be relevant here.

In late adolescent rats, finasteride remarkably decreases the activity of the dopaminergic system, exploratory and motor behaviours through decreasing DHT production and consequently androgen receptor activation on dopamine neurons in the substantia nigra and ventral tegmental area.

Interestingly, this effect was not seen in older or younger rats (Li et al., 2017). The reported reduction in brain DHT of late adolescent rats had not been observed in younger rats in a previous study (Giatti et al., 2015), suggesting significant interruption in brain dopaminergic activity occurs when AR activation is inhibited during the time testosterone levels are at their natural peak (Li et al., 2017).

This spatiotemporal observation of age-related difference is of potential relevance to the prevalence of PFS in young adult men of fertile age.

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#7

@5-alpha-victim

Something you could find interesting.

#8

Yea not good

Low dopaminergic activity is clearly linked to Parkinson’s. I will not be surprised at all to see more and more connections with PFS and neurotransmitters and inhibiting DHT and neurotransmitters.

Like I said I increase urine serotonin and my constipation goes away. My body clearly lowered serotonin and this clearly caused me to be constantly constipated . Serotonin and dopamine needs to be balanced so I’m assuming dopamine probably in the brain lowered and then body lowered serotonin to match . Because serotonin is inhibitory and dopamine is excitatory and they need to match. Just like GABA is inhibitory and needs to match glutamate which is excitatory. Notice how my sexual sides get worse when I increase serotonin. I think because I now have too much inhibitory neurotransmitter activity compared to excitatory neurotransmitter activity when I force serotonin production with the amino’s. I have been off the l-tryptophan, 5-HTP and B6 for a few days and my constipation is already returning. I expect that in two weeks I will be back to unbearable level constipation.

I’m working on something big . I’m going to get organized and have every amino acid on hand . Then I’m going to do a urine neurotransmitter test every two weeks and constantly adjust the amino acids I’m taking every two weeks to match the most recent neurotransmitter test results . It’s going to be time consuming and expensive. But only way to know if it will work is to try

In theory I’m not staying on any particular amino acid long enough to make an imbalance even worse and crash and by constantly nudging maybe I’ll force equilibrium. Kinda like the guys that recover on CD’s protocol by constantly nudging their bodies to respond to androgens. Same concept but with neurotransmitters. Unless I’m going to try high dose TRT I don’t see any other remaining options

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#9

“suggesting significant interruption in brain dopaminergic activity occurs when AR activation is inhibited”

Is this saying when androgen receptors (AR) or when the 5AR enzyme is inhibited ?

#10

Mmmm

Now that I think about it, There’s a guy in here who took antidepressant without any problem, then he added 5-HTP and crashed.

I don’t know, is 5-HTP antiandrogenic?

#11

You should never use antidepressants with another serotonin promoting medicine or supplement.

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#12

His doctors prescribed both of them to him.

But it’s curious he developed some sort of PFS/PSSD in that way.

#13

They’re saying 5AR is inhibited so less DHT which means less AR activation.

DHT has a much stronger affinity for AR than all other androgens, including testosterone. DHT will also activate the AR for a longer time than T (double or so IIRC).

This makes DHT a much stronger AR activator. It’s because of this that DHT make us go bald, even though we have other androgen hormones in our system.

#14

My guess is that if he was taking a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor which “makes your existing serotonin hang around in the brain longer” to agonize the serotonin receptors PLUS at the same time increased his natural synthesis of serotonin with 5-HTP then he came down with the so called “serotonin syndrome” of otherwise messed him self up even more beyond what his original problem was

In my opinion you should never take selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or mess with your brain chemistry. Increasing synthesis of a neurotransmitter sounds safer and if your body needs it the body will use that extra production

positive allosteric modulators enhance the receptors ability to have agonists bind to them. So Xanax a positive allosteric modulator of the GABA receptors is binding to the GABA receptors in a different spot then where GABA would bind to the GABA receptors and “enhances” the likelihood hood of GABA binding to the the GABA receptors. The last time I fell in insomnia from increasing synthesis of everything I increased synthesis of I needed to take a positive allosteric modulator of the GABA receptors just to get any sleep. That’s how imbalanced I am only from taking dut and saw P. Two things that no doctor should ever tell anyone to take . I had none of these imbalances before taking dut and Saw P.

So that’s how a positive allosteric modulator differs from a reuptake inhibitor. Both in my opinion horrible ideas because both mess with brain chemistry . I mean what did people do 50 years ago before these drugs even existed who had “depression”. They just handled it. Now we mess with brain chemistry. Such BS. I could see if someone was so “depressed” that they just tried to kill them self and you treat them with it as a list ditch why the hell not try effort . But they hand these out like candy like they are safe and they are not safe. They don’t even properly warn people of what can happen. Gods watching that shit

But yea I take l-tryptophan and 5-HTP both are involved in the natural synthesis of serotonin. Technically I could try just taking one of them to play it even safer . But I have experimented with taking both at the same time several times now with no major negative reactions so I’m good with that . Vitamin B6 is a cofactor that just helps these two things make it to serotonin

#15

But the guy developed PSSD.

Although without emotional blunting, apparently. I’m just wondering wether he developed PSSD through a different mechanism.

What’s your experience with group B Vitamins?

I’m low in B12 and B6. Scared to death to supplement them, actually.

#16

I used P5P (B6) with no adverse effects so far.

Don’t use Pyridoxine though, it’s not good at all. Look at this study.

"In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5’-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency. "

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#17

I personally believe that most “ageing” is just testosterone/androgen receptors becoming dysfunctional.

Back in the day aging was just thought of the onset of a disease. If you avoided diseases then you could live until 70-80 still being relatively able-bodied and smart.

But nowadays most 70-80 year olds are dysfunctional, this is because of exposure to petroleum chemicals, antiandrogens and xenoestrogens, which weaken our joints and bones and brain and cause the aging process. Sometimes this “aging” starts as early as your 30’s, where doctors say that erectile dysfunction and chronic back pain are a normal part of life! Clearly that isn’t true, especially if you haven’t sustained an injury of some sort and are just unhealthy.

You guys have to remember that Petroleum is the main enemy here. Pharmaceuticals like Finasteride and antidepressants are made from petroleum. They are literally poison, as is everything made from petroleum. Even if you aren’t on pharmaceuticals, exposure to pesticides, hygiene products, and cleaning agents ensure that your health is still compromised. Only option is to avoid them and eat a healthy diet and exercise.

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#20

I got PFS when I was 23. I am now 32 years old and have not changed much physically in those 9 years. I see my peers and feel like I’m 5-8 years younger than them. I feel like fucking Benjamin Button. This is probably why doctors don’t believe in my PFS (or any other health dysfunction). I look 25-26 years old and I feel like 80 years old man. I don’t know if the cause of the time stop is PFS or a very healthy lifestyle.

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#21

@TFD @5-alpha-victim I am relatively new to the forum and trying to figure out what has happened to me and look for a possible solution.
Reading the above discussion I can somewhat relate to myself but need your opinion and insights.
I was on bupropion (bupropion is a norepinephrine–dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI) with minimal (or no) direct effects on serotonin) for 6 months during September 2014 to Feb 2015. I was taking the medication for mild depression and smoking cessation. It worked wonders for me, as I had elevated mood, high energy, better sleep, more desire, better erection and no side effects except mild bloating.
In March 2015 I took finasteride 0.5 Mg/day for around 15 days and noticed reduced testicles and penis but I wouldn’t say I crashed as I was still getting erection(even though not hard enough like earlier) and there was no mental fog, sleeplessness, testicular pain, etc. However even these mild symptoms raised my concern and so I quit finasteride.
In May 2015 I took finasteride 1mg/day along with bupropion for 4 days and I crashed. Completely devastated. ZERO erection, ZERO libido, pain in testicles, testicles and penis shrinked to the size of a 7 year old kid, no sleep at all, mental fog etc.
Is it possible that the crash happened due to the combination or Finasteride alone has the potential to cause PFS?

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#22

I got PFS when I was 33. I am 39 now and have not changed much physically. In fact I have lost weight and look much lean and thin.
I guess it has happened to most people who crashed and have not resorted to some diet and/or physical training to compensate the loss because our bodies natural ability to make muscle mass is reduced due to low testosterone and low DHT.