Peripheral histamine is an important regulatory factor of male gonadal development

General Discussion
#15

Im looking at a balance here or maybe a shifted balance (dysregulation)
Maybe how bacteria might affect this balance, or the microbiome.
So not just looking at these human genes, bacteria and fungi can produce histamine. Certain bacteria can also degrade histamine, such as Bifido longum and infantis.

Genes of the Histamine Pathway and Common Diseases


For more than a hundred years since the discovery
of histamine, a large body of data has been accumulated on the importance of this amine for normal body
functioning, as well as for the development of pathologies of various organ systems.

Both temporal and chronic imbalances between the synthesis/intake of histamine and its degradation/metabolism in the human body (including those caused by specific genetic features) mediate the development of inflammatory manifestations with disturbance of the homeostasis of various organ systems (nervous, immune, endocrine, cardiovascular, etc.). Immunopathologic reactions mediated by histamine accompany the development of antigen-specific and nonspecific immediate and delayed-type hypersensitivity reactions of inflammation, effector immunocomplex reactions, autoimmune disorders, and cancer and, ultimately, can determine the comorbidity of common diseases. The review also provides information on the associations of the genes of the histamine pathway with common diseases (according to the studies using the candidate-gene approach and genome-wide association studies).

#16

The biggest stand out here is that its H2 histamine receptors providing this neuroprotective effect.
Keep in mind a few posts up, Prozac greatly inhibited the h2 receptor in the gi tract.

Histidine provides long-term neuroprotection after cerebral ischemia through promoting astrocyte migration

#17

my friend on peak testosterone, who like my went on crash diet and developed these horrible symptoms is also thinking it has something to do with histamine. He is the one that gave me that idea. He noted to be that he does not have mucus anymore??

#18

-My rash I had my whole life completely dissapeared…which I thought was impossible?

-I developed a 2-3 day egg allergy that happened about 1-2 months before my crash?

-Haven’t had a proper flu in the last 3 years.

-Itchy side of nose, ears… I also found this to be linked with histamine…

#19

I was just going to post something on this. I think this could be an important thought to keep in mind.
Accutane is capable of eroding the mucus layer in the intestines, you also see SSRI’s having antihistamine effect in the gi tract.
Also keep in mind mucus layers of the sinuses and eyes as well and possible constant low grade inflammation without the appropriate response.

H2 blockers decrease gut mucus production and lead to barrier dysfunction in vitro.

#20

Here’s the other side of the coin from the response I just posted in the Does histamine intolerance play a key role? thread.

Immune regulation by histamine and histamine-secreting bacteria

2017

Histamine is a biogenic amine with extensive effects on many immune cell types. Histamine and its four receptors (H1R–H4R) represent a complex system of immunoregulation with distinct effects dependent on receptor subtypes and their differential expression. In addition to mammalian cells, bacteria can also secrete histamine and the influence of microbiota-derived histamine on host immunological processes is only beginning to be described.

Bacterial-derived histamine is immunologically active.

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#21

Just showing hands again, pre-fin I had big allergies to my cat and regular hayfever, plus got coughs and colds 2-3 times a year.
Since fin my allergies vanished, aside from maybe two or three sniffles at points, and no colds either.

Do think there could be something in this.

We need to become ‘sensitive’ to histamine again? I did check my blood histamine levels a couple months back and it was mid-range/perfect.

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#22

Same here regarsing allergies. Maybe it is not hystamine but inmune system itself.

#23

I remember getting Candida and pretty bad digestion issues straight after accutane. İt’s been 22 years and I still have that. But to be honest I did not knew about all that until 3 months ago. So I never did something.

Now I started with low fodmap and other stuff. Question is, can we repair it? Or is it gone forever? I mean, at this state I give myself maybe 5-10 years before I die because of malabsorption and tons of Vitamine deficiency.

I lost 10 kg and have pretty much none body fat. I can not do subcutan injections because of low body fat. I live from 5 foods. Rice, chicken, beef, somon and broccoli.

#24

This is from Mayo Clinic. Some other tests (like whole blood) might not have much clinical validation.
So looking at this reference range, histamine important for immune regulation, should read less than 1 in blood plasma. You can also look at Quest Diagnostics with a similar range and only offered test.
So I think whats going on with blood levels might not tell the whole story.
Especially looking at its possible role in the gi tract and colon.

Test ID: FHSPL

Histamine Plasma

Reference Values

<1.0 ng/mL

Also, Im not claiming this to be an “it” factor at this point. Im just thoroughly looking at a case for this. I have a few more thoughts/studies and that will be it. You can only look at some of this so much to see what might be possible in the real world. If there was a case for bacterial involvement, this could be part of a dysbiosis shift that doesnt get corrected in just a few days. Hell, my health has been swinging in the wrong direction with this for 20 some years, and its starting to take its toll.
So when people talk about anything close to a “cure” for me its about stopping the bleeding or progression so to speak First.

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#25

I made a histamine test, with that result, less than t.

#26

Histamine rebound is real, but to fully explore both sides of this, what if that rebound never comes?

You can see some pretty good documented relationships with Accutane and SSRI’s, nothing with Finasteride, but then again i’m not sure if you ever would see a study looking at Finasteride and Histamine, only reports of I don’t get allergies or sick anymore, which I know could also belong to numerous factors.

Many people report dealing with the aftermath of Zyrtec for many years even after stopping the drug.

Also lets say there’s a cause for the opposite of this, Histamine is a problem.
I didnt connect this at the time, but I got worsened uncontrollable tics and muscle spasms/spastic motion on Allegra. Same with Bifido Longum 35624 (Align) a histamine degrading bacteria.

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#27

Histamine alone was enough to significantly raise DHT tissue levels in this study. Again something to keep in mind.

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#28

@guitarman01 I’ve been convinced of the effects of Histamine levels for a while, and one of the few recoveries I had was when I took Histidine capsules.

Question is: what protocols should we employ to affect Histamine levels? Is there there a particular approach that we can try based on the studies above?

#29

Keep in mind this is as I go, I could just come back to this in a few months, but from what ive seen on here, it almost seems like every minute counts.

So im not going out of my way to recommended this, but im taking notes, and see a possible scenario for looking at this long term.

The new thought on this would be bacterial based.
bacteria that contributes to a histamine pool outside of diet, not only that but also bacteria that takes away from this histamine pool. If histamine is important to immunity is bacteria that degrades histamine a good thing? This could almost be looked at in a pathogenic type way of disarming the immune system by degrading histamine outside of the body’s own capabilities. I look at a possible shift where even dietary amino acid intake that converts to histamine isnt enough in the face of an over presence of histamine degrading bacteria.
So maybe you shift this balance back with a histamine producing bacteria that might serve multiple roles. Ive been looking at what might make some bacteria unique when it comes to looking at the microbiome. This could be one of those factors.
^Theory.

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#30

Amazing reasoning. Great job !

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#31

Who else is going to try Histamine supplemention with me?
This looks interesting.

#32

How does one try Histamine supplementation?

#33

This talks about it here,

Another MIT study on ATCC 6475 Lactobacillus reuteri Probiotic Bacteria Induce a ‘Glow of Health’

Just to add to my above thought, I also keep bacterial resistance in mind when people talk about the ebbs and flows of their condition.

As far as reasoning, Im just showing what ive been seeing and how I might justify trialing this atm. That almost feels like an endorsement though, so I would include “at your own risk” to compensate for anything I might not be aware of atm.

#34

Just to kind of zoom out from that last study and show a possible continued link.
Also I think this histamine/probiotic supplement is giving me some nerve tinglings. Im not sure what to make of that yet, because I also know some people have related this sensation to Fin use or withdrawal. I have also seen this described with Zyrtec withdrawal.

Histidine decarboxylase deficiency in gene knockout mice elevates
male sex steroid production

“peripheral histamine is an
important regulatory factor of male gonadal development”

We found a highly significant reduction in the weight
of the testis in HDC-KO mice compared with wild type
animals. Since the concentration of testicular histamine is
higher in the immature gonad than in the adult one
(Zieher et al. 1971), it can be assumed that the lower
testicular weight observed in HDC-KO adult mice might
be the consequence of histamine-dependent events during
testicular development.

Further
studies are required to clarify the physiological role of
histamine in testicular ontogenesis. The novel aspect of the
regulation of androgenic hormones, i.e. the role of histamine in testicular ontogenesis and steroidogenesis, might
attract more attention to the unexpected side-effects of
antihistamines, which may shift the local balance and in
turn enhance androgen production