Oneday's PCT to Recovery (Correcting HPTA with Nolvadex and hCG)

[Bradwaggoner]

I hope that isn’t the case. I’d never eff with anything that screws up hormones again. Bald and healthy is way better than this.

[Mens_Rea]

@oneday

It has been 8 months trying bullshit remedies and natural supplements. I even flew out to Ohio to the tri state sleep clinic to get xyrem for my sleep disorder. I took xyrem for a week and sure it was euphoric but that is not I was after. I lost my nocturnal erections and had mild morning erections compared to preXyrem which was good nocturnal erections (60%) and great morning erections(80-85%). Xyrem made me tired and emotionally drained compared to happy and great energy prior to taking Xyrem.

Look, I read only 2 out of 4 people on this forum where xyrem has been successful. Now i’m 5th person and sure, i only took the stuff for a week, but i didn’t see the results. Even my midday erections were horrendous.

It has been too long and i’m creeping on my 2 yr mark with side effects, so i just want to get fucking cured. I thought about situation logically and weighed my symptoms against my lab results, as well as, try to hypothesis what could have gone wrong when I took propecia.

when i first took propecia, i had pain in my prostate as if it was shriveling up inside me and the very next day I no longer had any libido. There was this lesbian at work and she was dope. Tight fucking ass and great legs, so there were moments where my dick was throbbing just thinking about her, then i took propecia and all those thoughts went away. I told myself that this was natural and the side effects were documented that if i stopped things will return to normal (hind sight: that was bullshit and i should have stopped immediately)

Hypothesis (seems like everyone on this forum has a hypothesis and wanted to add my two cents)
At this point, i believe that propecia has inhibited the conversion of testosterone to dht. Hmmm, if there’s a lot of free testosterone floating in your blood then Aromatase (similar to 5ar but this enzyme converts testos into estrogen) will convert the free testosterone into estradiol. If you guys been studying stuff outside this forum… you’ll know that estradiol has 200x the suppress pressure than 1 molar basis of testosterone on the hypothalamus. My point is that estrogen is telling your brain not to produce Luteinizing hormone (LH is used to communicate to your testes to produce testosterone.) If you don’t get enough LH in your blood stream then your balls will atrophy overtime. Eventually, the leydig cells in your balls will shrink and now matter how much LH is in your blood, leydig cells will not respond to generate testosterone. It is pretty simple right! It is only anecdotal but it is may be why ppl are more emotional and they develop gyno do to high estradiol. You only develop gyno if you are genetically predisposed. Just like we are genetically predisposed to get permanent side effects from finasteride. Yes, i know, propecia sucks balls!

So if you stop propecia, there will be a gradual increase of DHT, but the aromatase in your body have become very active and efficient at converting testosterone into estradiol, also it also have the capability of converting DHT into estradiol too. Now your body is getting such a huge dose of estradiol (200x the suppress force) in your body and it shuts down your hypothalmus from producing GnRH which causes the pituitary NOT to produce LH. Without LH, your balls shut down, you become an an emotional wreak b/c of estradiol and the lack of testosterone.

After we stop FIN, 99% of us are emotional, lack libido, inability to maintain erections and it is due to high estrogen. Estrogen has a role in libido just as much as testosterone, but too much estrogen could be blocking the same libido receptors that are used by testosterone.

too much of a rant and i’m going back to why i started with this pct.

If your balls have atrophied, then you have to wake them back up, so I thought about steroid users and their shrunken balls. I can honestly say that i have never thought about another guys balls, but this is the only exception.

This is why i went to steroids.com to research drugs and various Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) protocol. I found Mike Scally and Anthony Roberts PCT articles on meso, so who is right b/c both guys seem to provide great information about the Hypothalmus-Pituitary-Testicular- Axis (HPTA). PCT is used to restore the HPTA back to what it was prior to taking steroids and i figured that one of these programs will work for me.

From my lab work, i’m producing enough LH but I have noticed that i have grape size balls and need to resurrect the atrophy testes. It takes about 2-3 weeks on 250iu to 500 iu HCG, but taking too much will fuck up your balls and screw your pct for months (read meso to find out.) Hcg will create a lot of estrogen and testosterone from your testes, so u need nolvadex to stimulate your brain to produce LH and FSH, resensitize your pituitary to GnRH(makes your brain require less GnRH to produce LH), and block the estrogen receptors (prevents gyno). Using nolva will get your brain use to producing LH and with your balls running at full steam after hcg treatment, so when u taper down on nolva your HPTA should be self sufficient and produce testosterone naturally. With the nolvadex, this is done for 6-16 weeks and i’m on the 8 week program. If the pct fails me than i will seek a longer protocol. Tapering off this drug is the most important part of the pct to avoid estrogen shock and give your body time to adjust to estradiol levels. Users on meso claimed that their libido were affect while on nolvadex, but exponentially increased during the tapering off phase.

I only work 3 days and have 4 days to fuck around, so I have been learning and reading hundreds of web pages about this shit. I’ve looked on this forum for similar protocols, but there isn’t any. Some tried HCG, CLOMID, and NOLVADEX, but have failed. It doesn’t deter me tho because they don’t tell us the combination, dosage, and duration, so i can’t trust their postings. My goal is to document as much as i can and become a resource to people if this ends up working. I’m tired of fin sides and want things back to normal.

Remember, i’m not a doctor so here’s a disclaimer: use this information at your own risk.

Great hypothesis

Unfortunately however, all these hypothesis’ only seem to apply to some people

I for instance have decent LH but poor FSH. I have shinkage to the penis but my balls seem okay.

Excess estrogen though.

[monty]

I have low LH low test and pretty low fsh. Waiting for another blood test to find out about all of those again and E2.

Minimal ED but definately testicular shrinkage.

Funny thing is the longer I withdraw from masterbation the less libido I have and the more shrinkage!

Could this be increase in testosterone causing further aromatisation and less LH production?

[Mens_Rea]

This guy had the right idea but that is a horrible PCT. You NEED an AI in there alongside a SERM and hCG like that. In the absence of same on would have ridiculous estrogen levels which would pretty much ensure no recovery.

I see he was against AI’s as he was worried about using another enzyme inhibitor. Arimidex is very different to finasteride in just about every way, i don’t think those concerns were warranted. Using anything to artificially tweak your hormones isn’t going to be ideal but in certain instances AI’s will prove very important to one’s protocol.

[monty]

It didn’t work for him either. I’ve seen him on meso and he’s still dabbling!

[Y-C]

I think we need to delete Oneday and ScaredinMD recoveries…until we end by deleting all the recoveries section

[Mew]

It didn’t work for him either. I’ve seen him on meso and he’s still dabbling!

Can you post a link to where he states he is not recovered, as he has not updated this thread to do so?

[monty]

Sorry it was several months ago I stumbled accross something of his on meso saying something along the lines of running it again but slightly differently.

If I come accross it again in my incessant searching for the answer I surely will post it!

[m_81]

@Colin297

This guy had the right idea but that is a horrible PCT. You NEED an AI in there alongside a SERM and hCG like that. In the absence of same on would have ridiculous estrogen levels which would pretty much ensure no recovery.

I see he was against AI’s as he was worried about using another enzyme inhibitor. Arimidex is very different to finasteride in just about every way, i don’t think those concerns were warranted. Using anything to artificially tweak your hormones isn’t going to be ideal but in certain instances AI’s will prove very important to one’s protocol.

False. I was on clomid-only, my T was in the 800s (50% higher than my pre-fin T), and my estrogen was as low as 26. My sex hormones all looked great, but I was suffering sexual and mental sides anyway.

[Mens_Rea]

@m_81

@Colin297

This guy had the right idea but that is a horrible PCT. You NEED an AI in there alongside a SERM and hCG like that. In the absence of same on would have ridiculous estrogen levels which would pretty much ensure no recovery.

I see he was against AI’s as he was worried about using another enzyme inhibitor. Arimidex is very different to finasteride in just about every way, i don’t think those concerns were warranted. Using anything to artificially tweak your hormones isn’t going to be ideal but in certain instances AI’s will prove very important to one’s protocol.

False. I was on clomid-only, my T was in the 800s (50% higher than my pre-fin T), and my estrogen was as low as 26. My sex hormones all looked great, but I was suffering sexual and mental sides anyway.

Interesting.

Clearly you went straight past your T/E ratio. Everyone has a sweetspot. Around 240:1 (pmol/L) ratio is a good benchmark from what i gather.

[braziliandude]

So he never got back??? I wonder what happened to him

[Adam]

Guys is there any progress??
Try sellery ı have some good results from it but no 100%
If i stop I lose the effect but still it works
U can post me message
m.saatli@gmail.com

[Joshey2293]

I did something similar with s pct too! I listed what I took below:

1. Clomid 50/50/50/25
2. Mk677 (hgh secretagogue) 3 months
3. 200:1 tongkat Ali

Balls started tingling and growing, morning woods came back and all is well with the world lol

[progress]

@Joshey2293

I did something similar with s pct too! I listed what I took below:

1. Clomid 50/50/50/25
2. Mk677 (hgh secretagogue) 3 months
3. 200:1 tongkat Ali

Balls started tingling and growing, morning woods came back and all is well with the world lol

For how long has this been good for you? Significant enough for you to recommend others to give it a try?

[p_stashio]

Hey Oneday,

Are you alive mate? How did your PCT work out? There are others here who would like to know what worked for you?

Thanks man

Mike

[Dknighten]

@oneday

[Cooper]

The reason why many of you guys failed to restart your HPTA’s were due to using the wrong drug. I promised myself to leave this forum for a good time because i finally found a promising protocol. But some problems came up and i stayed here to gather some additional information before i go. There is really a lot to say.

But only thing i can say now is that the best bet for HPTA recovery is Enclomiphene. You can buy the brand name Enclofert by India. Clomid won’t work for HPTA, because:

Clomid is a combination of two isomers. Zuclomiphene and Enclomiphene. We need Enclomiphene, it is an Estrogen Antogonist. Zuclomiphene is an Estrogen Agonist! That’s why many bodybuilders or low T sufferers feel good on Clomid only for a short period of time and then crash due to elevated Estrogen or Estrogenic side effects. Whereas, Enclomiphene antogonizes ER’s on Pituitary Gland. Well, other SERM’s do this too but as i said, they are very estrogenic on other tissues. Unfortunately, there is a limited knowledge on Enclomiphene’s tissue spesific effects. But from what i have read, it seems it doesn’t have that Estrogenic effect as other SERM’s.

I was also searching Tamoxifen, it is tolerated very well in contrary to Clomid but it is also has both anti-estrogenic and estrogenic effects. Also it has some bad effects on bone growth. A mixed bag, but still a good choice. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18348701

Enclomiphene has been show to increase LH, FSH, T, Free T levels significantly in men. That’s what we need. Im not going to post every source of mine. You can all find them by simple keywords. There is also two evidences on Reddit that it increased their androgenic profile. https://www.reddit.com/r/sarmsourcetalk/comments/f022x2/meta_bloods_confirming_efficacy_of_enclofert50/

If we minimalize everything to one conclusion: Best thing to try for low T symptoms is Enclomiphene Citrate. If you don’t have the acsess to it, the second best thing is Tamoxifen Citrate. Rest is a big no-no. You might want to supplement yourself with MK-677 prior to a SERM PCT because it also decreases IGF-1 levels due its Estrogenic affects on the liver. (IGF-1 is produced in the liver.)

A member from here fully 100% recovered by Clomid and Nolvadex together, but then he crashed a week after. Also, a member from Thinksteroids fully recovered by Nolvadex https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/x-propecia-user-bloods-please-look-20-years-old.134313387/ The trick is to use the right substance for the correct amount of time with the correct dosage!

No one in this forum has ever used the correct substance on correct dosages. It is insane that people here used Clomid 40mg every day and claimed it is not working. Of course it won’t work. The substance is wrong, the dosages are wrong, the duration is wrong! You need to use it 12.5mg every other day. (Search every bodybuilding forum and articles, all of my words are based.) Im considering that increasing androgens can heal us when i propose this hypothesis. I know that many of us felt bad or didn’t notice much when we increase the T levels, but still i think many people missing a chance here.

Low is better with SERMS, so you should start with 10mg every other day. At least for 6 weeks. This is the safest and most efficient protocol you can find when it comes to SERM’s. Don’t use Clomid. Use Enclomiphene.

[Koranolio]

How about you try it yourself and come with results before claiming what’s wrong vs right?