NEW BLOOD TEST (Good news - big jump in T)

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

History:

I am 25 years old. I started taking Propecia when I was 22 years old and took it for about 2.5 years.

During the last few months on Propecia I suffered from very low libido, insomnia, inability to deal with stress, moderate erection dysfunction problems.

I quit Propecia on March 13, 2006. After I quit, my testicles shrunk (seriously), I experienced severe erection dysfunction (it was very difficult getting an erection and the erection was very soft), changes in skin of genitals (softer, more wrinkled), low libido, pain/discomfort in testicles, abdominal pain, digestion problems, inability to deal with stress, brain fog, decreased ejaculate volume, weakened orgasms, my dick was always in the retracted position (like when you get into a cold pool).

I have slowly been recovering in all areas. I can now obtain and retain an erection, but it still isn’t 100% - more like 80%. I have increased libido, but still relatively low. My brain fog fluctuates. It is still more difficult to deal with stress and I am tired often. The testicles are still smaller and feel uncomfortable – although this fluctuates.

Last week I saw a urologist and he said that I have a spermatocele. A spermatocele is a cyst that develops in the epididymis — the small, coiled tube situated in the upper testicle that collects and transports sperm. Many experts believe it results from a blockage in one of the tubes that drain sperm from the testicle into the epididymis. Trauma and inflammation also may cause spermatoceles. Spermatoceles are most often found in men between the ages of 40 to 60. .If you want more information search the Mayo Clinic website.

I have started to lose more hair but the hair loss is still much slower than before I started taking Propecia.

Note: There is some discrepancy between the normal ranges because the first test was done in a different lab. Normal range in parentheses. I have only provided reference ranges for the relevant tests.

1st Blood Test:

Collected: 10/06/06 12:02 pm (7 months after stopping)

Comp. Metabolic Panel:
Creatinine, Serum 0.9
AST 18
ALT 25

CBC, Platelet; No Differential:
WBC 4.5
RBC 5.04
Hemoglobin 15.4
Hematocrit 45.4
MCV 90
MCH 30.6
MCHC 33.9
RDW 12.5
Platelets 124

Lipid Panel:
Cholesterol 143
Triglycerides 129
HDL Cholesterol 48
VLDL Cholesterol 26
LDL Cholesterol 69

FSH and LH:
LH 2.9 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
FSH 1.8 mIU/mL (1.4-18.1)

Testosterone, Fee and Total:
Testosterone, Serum 475 ng/dL (241-827)
Free Testosterone (Direct) 17. 2 pg/mL (9.3-26.5)

Estradiol 19 pg/mL (0-53)

Tyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S:
T4, Free Direct 1.19 (.61-1.76)

Deydroepiandrosterone Sulfate
DHEA-Sulfate 338

TSH 3.364 (0.35-5.5)

hCG, Beta Subunit, Qual, Serum:
Negative

Prolactin 5.4 ng/mL

2nd Blood Test:

Collected: 01/18/07 10:00 am (10 months after stopping)

Testosterone, Total 521 ng/dL (250-1100)
Testosterone, Free 2.43% (1.10-2.80)
Testosterone, Fee 126.6 pg/mL (35 – 155)

T4, Free, Non-Dialysis 1.4 ng/dL (0.8-1.80)

TSH 4.3 uIU/mL (.4 – 5.5)

3rd Blood Test:

Collected: 3/12/2007 10:00am (12 months after stopping)

Testosterone, Total 531 ng/dL (250-1100)
Testosterone, Free 2.65% (1.10-2.80)
Testosterone, Fee 140.7 pg/mL (35 – 155)

Estradiol 48 pg/mL (13-54) - NOTICE: My Estradiol has more than doubled since the first test.

LH, Serum 5.0 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)

FSH, Serum 1.7 mIU/mL (1.6 – 8.0)

TSH 2.9 uIU/mL (0.4-5.5)

DHT 54 ng/dL (25-75)

I welcome any advice and comments.

Thank you,
Josh

#2

Josh, I’m glad to hear you have been recovering.
What are they going to do about the blockage? Was it confirmed, and what will happen with it?

#3

The urologist told me to take Advil if the pain bothers me. I didn’t like this idea because it would mean taking Advil every day and that doesn’t seem right to me. He said it might go away on its own or it might grow and may need to be surgically removed.

#4

dude, I feel constant discomfort down there. Has that subsided a bit over time? I also feel like I have to pee all the time again.

#5

Nice improvement and happy to hear you are doing better. Have you taken anything or have you taken a wait and see approach?

If those were my labs I would like to see my Total T up a little higher and closer to 750-800. In addition, your E2 needs to come down to 25 or lower. I think once this happens that you will feel 100% again. You could just wait and see what happens or you could take a very low dose aromatase inhibitor (arimidex) and monitor your labs closely. Increasing T could also increase SHBG and therefore you may need to control this with something natural like neetle root extract, avena sativa or muira puanna.

Please note that I am no expert at this stuff so please consult your physician.

#6

No, the discomfort has remained (this may be too to the spematocele - see a urologist to make sure you don’t have this). And, just like you, I do have to pee more often - and more dribbles out after I stop then it used to.

After stopping, I didn’t do anything for the first 9 months or so.

Then I started the brocolli treatment and did that twice.

I have recently started eating three table spoons of honey every day and eating more brocolli.

I have also started taking 15mg of zinc everyday.

I stopped drinking alcohol and caffeine.

I got an acupuncturist treatment recently.

I try to reduce foods that contain soy.

I think the biggest thing that has prevented my side-effects from getting worse is stopping alcohol and caffeine consumption. I’m not sure if any of the above helped. I think my body has just slowly readjusted itself.

I’m still not 100% but I’m getting closer.

#7

why, what does alcohol do? Does it really make things considerably worse for you, because I really can’t wait to start drinking and going out again.
I wonder if I can get it up now after I drink.
Thanks guys.

#8

Josh,

Looking good. Slowly but surely your T levels are on the rise. Free T looks to be going up as well. DHT appears to be at a decent level, which is a good sign. Liver enzymes (AST, ALT) are normal.

Your LH has gone up from 2.9 to 5.0 over the course of the 3 tests. Your TSH has gone down from 4.3 to 2.9 as well, not sure why it spiked up to 4.3 on the 2nd test from 3.3 on the 1st. Regardless the lower TSH of 2.9 on the last test is a good sign.

FSH seems to be holding steady at 1.8 ~ 1.7… this is near borderline low. Have you had a sperm test? How is your ejaculate volume, anyway?

Interesting that your E2 (Estradiol) has more than doubled over the course of time… unsure why this would be.

DHEAS looks a little low at 338. As per LEF’s recommended optimal range for men is 400–500 µg/dL. There are DHEA supplements you can take but as with everything, you must research the risks associated with such treatments.

You do not have tests for SHBG, which would be nice to know… as well as Albumin, Cortisol and possibly Progesterone.

Regardless overall it looks like your system is starting to come back online… now if you can just boost your endogeneous T production up to the 650~ 800 range while controlling E2 (maybe try a DIM supplement), I’m sure you’d feel even better.

At this stage I’d start hitting the gym and lifting heavy and consistently to help with this… as per a study in the Naturals section of this site, lifting consistently over the course of 2 yrs can boost endogeneous T levels quite a bit.

Some other things you might also consider are Catecholamines (neurotransmitter) testing (check Bloodtests section of forum).

This is all my own personal opinion of course… I’m sure Hypo will have his opinions as well… but see how you’re doing in another 4-6 months or so.

#9

Mew,

My ejaculate volume is low, probably about 50% of what it used to be. You really know your stuff! I showed my blood results to my urologist and he didn’t mention anything about my ejaculate volume.

My E2 may be higher because of the difference in the time of day that I got my blood tests. My first test was at 12pm while my other two were taken at 9am. What do you think?

Thanks for your input.

Josh

#10

Not sure if a 3 hour window of time would account for such a drastic raise in Estradiol… regardless it is getting up there and I think you would be best to try and bring it down… either via Brocolli treatment or trying some DIM supplements.

As for ejaculate volume – likely a result of Prostate shrinkage/reduction in seminal fluid thanks to Fin… but you should definitely get a sperm test to check your fertility/motility with a low FSH.

#11

I would try somthing like Armidex. It might just do the trick - your E is way too high. Failing that, maybe add some HCG. At what does I have no idea.

Failing that, I would try Armidex, HCG and TRT. Though if your T is rising slowly on its own, it might be worth seeing what happens by just waiting. It all depends on your patients I guess.

This is my opinion with my limited knowledge of hormones. Hypo might be able to give you a better answer.

#12

If an endocrinologist was willing to prescribe low dose arimidex it would lower the estradiol. In doing that it would also probably increase LH and total testosterone and it would increase free testosterone and DHT. It would increase free testosterone because A) there would be more total testosterone and B) less estradiol to block the androgen receptors.

Limited use of arimidex might get you feeling right as rain.

Instead of the operative if in my first statement, by simply going to see an andrologist or anti anging doctor I am sure you would be prescribed arimidex.

#13

Am I suffering from Secondary Hypogonadism?

From Website:

The patient has primary hypogonadism if his serum testosterone concentration and sperm count are low and his serum LH and FSH concentrations are high.

The patient has secondary hypogonadism if his serum testosterone concentration and the sperm count are low and his serum LH and FSH concentrations are normal or low.

My LH and FSH concentrations are low.

Josh

#14

Good news, looks like my T levels have gone up significantly and Estradiol gone down since my 3rd blood test.

1st Blood Test

Collected: 10/06/06 12:02 pm (7 months after stopping)

Comp. Metabolic Panel:
Creatinine, Serum 0.9
AST 18
ALT 25

CBC, Platelet; No Differential:
WBC 4.5
RBC 5.04
Hemoglobin 15.4
Hematocrit 45.4
MCV 90
MCH 30.6
MCHC 33.9
RDW 12.5
Platelets 124

Lipid Panel:
Cholesterol 143
Triglycerides 129
HDL Cholesterol 48
VLDL Cholesterol 26
LDL Cholesterol 69

FSH and LH:
LH 2.9 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
FSH 1.8 mIU/mL (1.4-18.1)

Testosterone, Fee and Total:
Testosterone, Serum 475 ng/dL (241-827)
Free Testosterone (Direct) 17. 2 pg/mL (9.3-26.5)

Estradiol 19 pg/mL (0-53)

Tyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S:
T4, Free Direct 1.19 (.61-1.76)

Deydroepiandrosterone Sulfate
DHEA-Sulfate 338

TSH 3.364 (0.35-5.5)

hCG, Beta Subunit, Qual, Serum:
Negative

Prolactin 5.4 ng/mL

2nd Blood Test

Collected: 01/18/07 10:00 am (10 months after stopping)

Testosterone, Total 521 ng/dL (250-1100)
Testosterone, Free 2.43% (1.10-2.80)
Testosterone, Fee 126.6 pg/mL (35 – 155)

T4, Free, Non-Dialysis 1.4 ng/dL (.8-1.8)

TSH 4.3 uIU/mL (.4 – 5.5)

3rd Blood Test

Collected: 3/12/2007 10:00am (12 months after stopping)

Testosterone, Total 531 ng/dL (250-1100)
Testosterone, Free 2.65% (1.10-2.80)
Testosterone, Free 140.7 pg/mL (35 – 155)

Estradiol 48 pg/mL (13-54) - NOTICE: My Estradiol has more than doubled since the first test.

LH, Serum 5.0 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)

FSH, Serum 1.7 mIU/mL (1.6 – 8.0)

TSH 2.9 uIU/mL (0.4-5.5)

DHT 54 ng/dL (25-75)

4th Blood Test

Collected: 4/24/2007 9:21am

Testosterone, Total 608 ng/dL (250-1100)
Testosterone, Free 3.13% (1.10-2.80) (out of range)
Testosterone, Free 190.3 pg/mL (35 – 155) (out of range)

Estradiol 17 pg/mL (13-54)

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 15 nmol/L (7-44)

#15

Josh, what if anything have you done between your 3rd and 4th blood test to get these results?

Or is it simply a matter of time itself? How are you feeling with these new numbers? Please update us beyond just the numbers themselves, thanks.

#16

Tell me this Josh.
Have you been in a better headspace lately? Really try to think about this question for a minute. DO you think all in all you have been feeling a little better lately, more optimistic and such, not as depressed or down and worried?
Because I wonder how this can affect T. ALso, have you had them all done at the same lab, and were your diets similar? I just had mine done, and had heard prior to not eat or drink much for 12 hours before, and I guess my levels are higher too now, although I’ll know specific results when I talk to them…
ANyway, right on man. Now I hope your prostatitis like symptoms are subsiding and you can go on back to feeling normal.

How are the other things, just as Mew has asked?

#17

I have done two things since my 3rd blood test which may account for the difference:

  1. I started drinking two cups of 100% orange juice (not from concentrate). I think the vitamin C made a difference.

  2. I started taking 45mg of Zinc.

Both ideas are from the book, “The Testosterone Syndrome.”

And yes, I have started feeling better psychologically as well. I’m generally happier.

Hope this helps.

Josh

#18

How are your prostatitis like symptoms?
Are you feeling almost back to normal yet?

Lat night I went out for the first time in a while. (I will post whole story in my “curing chronic prostatitis” thread) and my penis was still uncomfortable. But I had this Jamaican girl keep rubbing up on me all night. At first I was worried, but … …

#19

Josh, glad to hear the improvements… again, with these new numbers – how has it impacted what you originally described above?

Thanks!

#20

Yes, all of my side-effects have improved, but I’m not 100% yet and may never be. Hopefully, my side-effects won’t get worse, but only better from here on out.