My Theory

[iwontgiveup]

Hello,

I am not here to update you on my status all too much right now. Rather to share my theory. I think I figured it out.

Zollinger-Ellison syndrome is a condition in which there is increased production of the hormone gastrin.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001366/

There is a drug used to treat this condition called Cimetidine. It is a H2 receptor antagonist. It inhibits gastrin response because substances that promote acid secretion (such as gastrin and acetylcholine) have a reduced effect on parietal cells when the H2 receptors are blocked.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2_receptor_antagonist

Most noteworthy side effects of Cimetidine, the gastrin inhibitor:

• antiandrogen effects
• gynocomastia
• impotence
• hypoparathyroidism
• galactorrhea
• occaisonal decreases in LH and testosterone as well as increases in prolactin
• SEVERE DEPRESSION and SUICIDAL THOUGHTS

drugs.com/sfx/cimetidine-side-effects.html
gerd.emedtv.com/cimetidine/cimetidine-and-impotence.html

Now let’s shift our focus away from this drug and focus on Gastrin.

Gastrin a digestive hormone produced in the pancreas. It has been found to coorelate directly with sexual function. When they tested men who were castrated and women, vs sexually functioning men, the difference was a lack of gastrin in the castrated and women. Once they injected gastrin-releasing peptide, the sexual function returned. Apparently there is some connection with gastrin and the androgen receptors in the lower spine (lumbar). So even though serum levels of androgens were normal, they were not working in the lower spine.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18488022
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2627921/

Now, I am aware that there have been some positive response from antibiotics for members on here. Well, I had a surfing accident where I severely lacerated (basically cut off ) my finger and I was required to get on Cephalaxin and I saw a 180 in my symtpoms in one day. results faded partially but 50% remained after I stopped the anti biotics. The weird thing here is that antibiotics should kill off the bacteria and if it fixed the problem because its a bacterica then why did it come back? Sound familiar?

Here’s a study where there is a bacteria in the gastro and it is inhibiting Gastrin unless antibiuotics were actually present.

Previously, proliferating microflora transferred with abomasal nematodes, were suspected to be the source of the gastrin inhibitor in some parasite excretory/secretory products. Aerobic cultures in HBSS of abomasal fluid from uninfected sheep became inhibitory during the static growth phase, unless antibiotics were present. Basal gastrin secretion was reduced by up to 90%.

Significantly, rumen bacteria have been shown to be capable of affecting the secretory activity of the gastric mucosa.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16352323

rense.com/general19/bacteria.htm

So basically, there is a bacteria which festered due to a change in pH which inhibits gastrin secretion by up to 90%. Gastrin inhibition leads to gyno, ED, low test, milkymantits, thyroid problems, etc- general antiandrogen effects.

Correct the ph, remove the unwated organisms*, recreate gastrin production = sexy time

*Yes there are organisms in your gut - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumen_bacteria#Microbes_in_the_reticulorumen

and for the record I typed this with only my left hand because my rght hand in a cast

[Tpenf]

interesting… any plans to try a treatment protocol based on this theory? might be worth moving this to theories section…?

cheers

[Tpenf]

always wondered why i feel worse on coffee both regular and decaf…

healthy.net/scr/article.aspx?Id=2396&xcntr=2

??

[bluecloud87]

.

[iwontgiveup]

Check this out

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/428705

Cimetidine competitively inhibited DHT binding to its cytoplasmic receptor and decreased specific nuclear uptake of [3H]dihydrotestosterone in rat ventral prostate slices. No effects on plasma gonadotropin or testosterone concentrations were observed. We conclude that cimetidine is a nonsteroidal-antiandrogen and that this property may contribute to the production of gynecomastia in cimetidine-treated men.

[toadstool]

@iwontgiveup

Hello,

I am not here to update you on my status all too much right now. Rather to share my theory. I think I figured it out.

Zollinger-Ellison syndrome is a condition in which there is increased production of the hormone gastrin.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001366/

There is a drug used to treat this condition called Cimetidine. It is a H2 receptor antagonist. It inhibits gastrin response because substances that promote acid secretion (such as gastrin and acetylcholine) have a reduced effect on parietal cells when the H2 receptors are blocked.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2_receptor_antagonist

Most noteworthy side effects of Cimetidine, the gastrin inhibitor:

• antiandrogen effects
• gynocomastia
• impotence
• hypoparathyroidism
• galactorrhea
• occaisonal decreases in LH and testosterone as well as increases in prolactin

drugs.com/sfx/cimetidine-side-effects.html
gerd.emedtv.com/cimetidine/cimetidine-and-impotence.html

Now let’s shift our focus away from this drug and focus on Gastrin.

Gastrin a digestive hormone produced in the pancreas. It has been found to coorelate directly with sexual function. When they tested men who were castrated and women, vs sexually functioning men, the difference was a lack of gastrin in the castrated and women. Once they injected gastrin-releasing peptide, the sexual function returned. Apparently there is some connection with gastrin and the androgen receptors in the lower spine (lumbar). So even though serum levels of androgens were normal, they were not working in the lower spine.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18488022
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2627921/

Now, I am aware that there have been some positive response from antibiotics for members on here. Well, I had a surfing accident where I severely lacerated (basically cut off ) my finger and I was required to get on Cephalaxin and I saw a 180 in my symtpoms in one day. results faded partially but 50% remained after I stopped the anti biotics. The weird thing here is that antibiotics should kill off the bacteria and if it fixed the problem because its a bacterica then why did it come back? Sound familiar?

Here’s a study where there is a bacteria in the gastro and it is inhibiting Gastrin unless antibiuotics were actually present.

Previously, proliferating microflora transferred with abomasal nematodes, were suspected to be the source of the gastrin inhibitor in some parasite excretory/secretory products. Aerobic cultures in HBSS of abomasal fluid from uninfected sheep became inhibitory during the static growth phase, unless antibiotics were present. Basal gastrin secretion was reduced by up to 90%.

Significantly, rumen bacteria have been shown to be capable of affecting the secretory activity of the gastric mucosa.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16352323

rense.com/general19/bacteria.htm

So basically, there is a bacteria which festered due to a change in pH which inhibits gastrin secretion by up to 90%. Gastrin inhibition leads to gyno, ED, low test, milkymantits, thyroid problems, etc- general antiandrogen effects.

Correct the ph, remove the unwated organisms*, recreate gastrin production = sexy time

*Yes there are organisms in your gut - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumen_bacteria#Microbes_in_the_reticulorumen

and for the record I typed this with only my left hand because my rght hand in a cast

Fascinating post man… I like this theory actually… Especially because I was on cephalexin while having pfs for over a year (for acne)… After I stopped taking it, things got much worse for me… The question is though, why? You didnt go into anything as far as how finasteride caused this… How can this be tested? Can you test gastrin itself?

[iwontgiveup]

WEll its looks like the pH levels considerably effect the types of microbes in the gut - perhaps the propecia changed the ph levels. I read tha omeprezole can kill off teh good bacteria in your stomach to guard it. I took omeprezole for years before the propecia. Then with the guard down, the ph changes to bacteria comes in and inhibts gastrin, therfore perma antiandrogen mode

[iwontgiveup]

Here’s another one about H2 blockers inhibiting DHT binding

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6123322

. It is concluded that the antiandrogenicity of cimetidine and metiamide was not related to their activity as histamine H2 receptor antagonists.

Therefore it must be the gastrin inhibition

[toadstool]

@iwontgiveup

WEll its looks like the pH levels considerably effect the types of microbes in the gut - perhaps the propecia changed the ph levels. I read tha omeprezole can kill off teh good bacteria in your stomach to guard it. I took omeprezole for years before the propecia. Then with the guard down, the ph changes to bacteria comes in and inhibts gastrin, therfore perma antiandrogen mode

well ive noticed that a lot of guys who have there stool PH level tested it comes back off… So have you done anything regarding this protocol?

[iwontgiveup]

@Tpenf

interesting… any plans to try a treatment protocol based on this theory? might be worth moving this to theories section…?

cheers

I put this all together and faxed it to my doctor to come up with a plan. I did the hard part now hopefully they can take it from here. Took me 2 years to figure this out. I have been posting about gastrin for a while now. Only yesterday it click after my doctor said “the weirdest thing is how come teh symptoms improve on antibiotcs then come back - t hey shouldnt come right back” The nI started searching for my symptoms in combo with the gastin inhibitor and sure enough EVERY ONE came in - particiaully the galactorrhea (with normal prolactin levels) i knew that was very particular… sure enoguh sure enoguh it all fits …

[toadstool]

@iwontgiveup

@Tpenf

interesting… any plans to try a treatment protocol based on this theory? might be worth moving this to theories section…?

cheers

I put this all together and faxed it to my doctor to come up with a plan. I did the hard part now hopefully they can take it from here. Took me 2 years to figure this out. I have been posting about gastrin for a while now. Only yesterday it click after my doctor said “the weirdest thing is how come teh symptoms improve on antibiotcs then come back - t hey shouldnt come right back” The nI started searching for my symptoms in combo with the gastin inhibitor and sure enough EVERY ONE came in - particiaully the galactorrhea (with normal prolactin levels) i knew that was very particular… sure enoguh sure enoguh it all fits …

Please keep us updated on what he plans to do for this… !

[Tpenf]

@iwontgiveup

I put this all together and faxed it to my doctor to come up with a plan. I did the hard part now hopefully they can take it from here. Took me 2 years to figure this out. I have been posting about gastrin for a while now. Only yesterday it click after my doctor said “the weirdest thing is how come teh symptoms improve on antibiotcs then come back - t hey shouldnt come right back” The nI started searching for my symptoms in combo with the gastin inhibitor and sure enough EVERY ONE came in - particiaully the galactorrhea (with normal prolactin levels) i knew that was very particular… sure enoguh sure enoguh it all fits …

Great… so is your Dr on side with this?

[bluecloud87]

Good stuff mate, keep us posted!

[Ihatepropecia702]

I think there may be a stong connection here. I have made HUGE improvement from anti-funguals, but have read just lately with great interest using backing soda to raise one’s PH to over 8 for a couple of days. This change in PH kills all bacteria and fungal based infections. I haven’t tried this, just putting it out there. You can easily search google.

[Mew]

I took omeprezole for years before the propecia. Then with the guard down, the ph changes to bacteria comes in and inhibts gastrin, therfore perma antiandrogen mode

The problem I see is that you are in the minority with this.

Neither I nor many others took omeprezole or antibiotics for years before Finasteride. Yet, we all still have persistent side effects by undergoing androgen deprivation from Finasteride. The common factor here is Finasteride, not antibiotics.

[toadstool]

@Mew

I took omeprezole for years before the propecia. Then with the guard down, the ph changes to bacteria comes in and inhibts gastrin, therfore perma antiandrogen mode

The problem I see is that you are in the minority with this.

Neither I nor many others took omeprezole or antibiotics for years before Finasteride. Yet, we all still have persistent side effects by undergoing androgen deprivation from Finasteride. The common factor here is Finasteride, not antibiotics.

Youre missing the point though… taking omeprezole has nothing to do with it… When you put certain steroids in your stomach, such as Finasteride, it can strip your gut of good bacteria… Then perhaps it snow-balled from there… Youre putting something in your stomach that is foreign to it, and something potent as a 5ar inhibitor…

Iwontgiveup, I think you need to explain some more regarding the whole finasteride aspect of it, you specifically say “what” but not “how”…

[iwontgiveup]

i dont know how and i dont care im not a doctor - im trying to work backwards and thats at the front

[toadstool]

@iwontgiveup

i dont know how and i dont care im not a doctor - im trying to work backwards and thats at the front

Okay sir, please dont hurt me…Twas merely a question…

[iwontgiveup]

@Mew

I took omeprezole for years before the propecia. Then with the guard down, the ph changes to bacteria comes in and inhibts gastrin, therfore perma antiandrogen mode

The problem I see is that you are in the minority with this.

Neither I nor many others took omeprezole or antibiotics for years before Finasteride. Yet, we all still have persistent side effects by undergoing androgen deprivation from Finasteride. The common factor here is Finasteride, not antibiotics.

Correct. I dont know thats what it is it… I was just guessing… I have no frikkin clue… Im just piecing the puzzle together since someone asked. i wont speculate anymore every takes it as written in blood.

Omeprezole is not an antibiotic tho if thats what u are referring to its for heartburn… but again i dont know if that mattered or not

[Lincoln28]

@iwontgiveup

@Mew

I took omeprezole for years before the propecia. Then with the guard down, the ph changes to bacteria comes in and inhibts gastrin, therfore perma antiandrogen mode

The problem I see is that you are in the minority with this.

Neither I nor many others took omeprezole or antibiotics for years before Finasteride. Yet, we all still have persistent side effects by undergoing androgen deprivation from Finasteride. The common factor here is Finasteride, not antibiotics.

Correct. I dont know thats what it is it… I was just guessing… I have no frikkin clue… Im just piecing the puzzle together since someone asked. i wont speculate anymore every takes it as written in blood.

Omeprezole is not an antibiotic tho if thats what u are referring to its for heartburn… but again i dont know if that mattered or not

Ive been on Omeprazole for a year (40mg every other day). My situation has got worse this past year, but I think thats the way PFS generally goes (gradually downhill)…not sure if Omeprazole is to blame.

However, erectile dysfunction is a known side-effect of Omeprazole. Perhaps it could play a contributing role to how I feel…best look into how Omeprazole can CAUSE ED in the first instance to understand how gastroenterology might possibly have a part to play in things.