My Story

Member Stories
#1

I am male 27 from India and this is my story in brief. Used Finest(1mg Finasteride) from Jan 2006 to Sept 2006 for Hair loss on Doctor’s prescription. I new of the 3% people having side effects even then. It din;t effect me, on the contrary it improved my semen volume just a better higher I felt.

Sept 2006, I suddenly feel, no morning erections and reduced semen levels. I quit the drug, recover within 1 week to normalcy.
The Blunder: Start it again in Jan 2007(I thought losing hair was deperate enough, how stupid!) assuming I stop it if erection does not remain normal and did it till May 2007. The effects are so subtle, May 2007, my semen levels plummeted, next to drop was erections, night erections and libido.

I stopped the drug in May 2007, Alas! I dint recover as expected earlier. :frowning:
I waited till Nov patiently waitng to see if things improved. It was very poor libido, erection and semen volume guess quite same as may be a 80 year old man.

In Nov I visited a Urologist, who did a hormore profile, T levels were the only problem he felt 2.6 on a scale of 3.5 to 15 ng/l I reckon(I can note carefully and document here which I dint bother). He gave me restore(Mesterolone) 25mg twice a day for a Month and back for review. The first thing I noted was activity of the testis. Movement their, bloodflow in the penis, and graudual increase in libido and volume of semen, mild although a bit better improvent in erection. Still no night erections or wet dreams, or spontaneity in erections.

After one month I stopped the drug and waited for a week to see if effects stabilised, the improvment did prolong after stop of drug but from a 80 year old man it came to may be a 50 year old guy.

The urologist said pulse the drug, that is stop for that month and try twice more like that, he said and hope that it would help body better.

after one more month just a more mild improvment.

I am visiting a Andrologist now, who did a Sugar and urea test, cholestrol test, and Free T levels.

Sugar came out fine, mild increase in choloestrol he said get it treated by a general physician. Free T, 16 pg/l on a range of 10 to 45 pg/l.

He gave me oral Testosterone 40 mg capsules and said its same as Restore that I took. I took it 2 weeks ago. The contrary is what I saw, poorer erection than what I already have and volume reduced, I stopped within a week and next day I was able to see a mild morning erection. I decided this drug is having a reverse effect, went to Doc, he was susprised but since I was insistent and told restore helped me better. He gave me restore but the damn drug is not available in the market now, I looked around and then called the doc to see if he has a alternate for which he said nothing but the Androfil(T caps)…! I am so surprised. Although Mesterolone and Testo caps have same final objective but the route is different I guess, something to do with prostrate as far as Mest… is concerned I guess.

A Andrologist whom I consulted on Email and may meet in near future said I may need prolonged TRT and oral medication might not be absorbed well and may need spray. He also said replacement must be done with care as it can effect spermatogenisis(dont know what that means).

I am hoping mesterolone can bring me back to normalcy coz T caps seemed to have a reverse effect in a week that I used.

#2

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

So he gave you Proviron (active ingredient = Mesterolone), which is DHT in an oral tablet. Sounds like it was starting to help… although, taking DHT externally may lower Testosterone levels due to negative feedback on the pituitary, as noted here:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1421

Why did you quit if you were having improvements?

Oral Testosterone can be hepatoxic to the liver. It would be advisable to receive TRT via injections to avoid toxicity problems.

Was Andriol what you were prescribed?
andropause.com/about_andriol/

When you take Testosterone externally, it shuts down your body’s own Testosterone production. Perhaps the dosages you were prescribed were not adequate enough to compensate for this. Again, injections are usually preferable, every 7-10 days I believe, depending on the protocol. I would recommend you read through the studies in this section for more insight:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5

As well as Dr Crisler’s TRT protocol:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41

Before you consider prolonged TRT, you should consider treatments like Clomid, hCG or Tamoxifen to try and boost your own Testosterone production.

In addition to shutting down your body’s own Testosterone production, taking external TRT will shut down spermatogenesis while you are on it UNLESS used in conjuction with hCG.

In other words, you will likely become infertile while using TRT. I suggest you read the FAQ here for more info on the issues you may be facing:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

My advice would be to read and print out the studies about Clomid and hCG in the Drug Therapy section and try and pursue such treatments BEFORE considering TRT. You might need to find doctors willing to help you with this, or use the studies to convince them.

Keep us posted.

#3

I forgot to mention:

Although I mentioned injections, there are also Testosterone gels and patches available. Topically applied gels/patches convert to DHT moreso than do injections.

If you were seeing improvements with the Mesterolone (DHT), and IF you opt to pursue TRT at some point, you may want to consider use of patches/gels before injections… so that you get the added benefit of increased DHT conversion. Details on this:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=945

From what I recall, injections are preferable if you need to reduce conversion to DHT or reduce aromatization of Testosterone to Estrogen as much as possible, compared to gels.

#4

Andriol, yes same formulation but a different brand from India called Androfil.

Colimid or hcg, I really don;t know if Doctors prescribe this here? I don’t want to mess it being adventerous. I stopped Mesterolone at that time coz Doctor said you can’t keep taking it.

This Doctor now, he said use it as I found use, I am still not on it as I cant seem to find it in market( I dont buy anything online!).

If orat Testo caps are not great then what is Andriol?

#5

I have been bewildered by the whole reaction I ended up with that am still shock, although I am hoping for major recovery as I still remember a day during my Mesterolone intake, I woke up with a major erection and pre-cum was imminent, taking me so close to pre-finest days.

Not many people seem to connect rock solid and spontaneous erections with T? that really worries me as am not diabetic and nothing else on my reports seem abnormal.

Libido, erections, semen volume, instant recoverability after a orgasm, forcefull urination, sensitivity of the scortum… which all was enhanced and now diminished, all to do with T levels?

#6

Hormones or the prostate I would say. My hormonal profile is very good at the moment, but my genital sensitivity and look has not returned to it’s pre fin state. Could at least partially be T.

#7

Hi Guys,

After struggling to get Restore(Mesterolone) from a Pharmacy for 3 weeks, I finally got an alternate brand Provironum, taking 50mg every night for past month. after first two weeks good results… my erections are more instant, more pleasure and I can hold my erection even under distraction. So, Ill keep continuing untill I got to my Doctor again.

Just want to say that, this is under Doctor’s prescriction(read above).

#8

Its been frustrating pattern when I used Mesterolone…

Same as the first time, everything seems to be coming back and even after continuing the use, it dips. Say, around 10 days onwards from the date of start, the libido and erection levels improve, the semen levels go better and after the 20th day it dips…

its frustrating, I am wondering what could be the reason and how to resolve this.

#9

Possibly because the external DHT you are taking is causing NEGATIVE FEEDBACK on the hypothalamus pituitary axis, as noted here:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1421

You may be lowering your LH/T levels as a result. T is also critical for erections and libido.

Solution may be to to try Testosterone Replacement Therapy and if that doesn’t work, try TRT + DHT. Although, before trying TRT you may want to try Clomid or hCG to see if boosting your own Testosterone levels has any effect, instead of taking external Testosterone.

#10

I used Proviron when the whole problem began. It really amazed me those days that the synthetic DHT was screwing me up even more then Propecia, instead of boosting my libido. That was the first time I realized this is not a hormonal problem itself.

#11

I met a doc in Bangalore in early February. This person is supposed to be well versed with reproductive endocrinology and Andrology.

He looked at my previous history and use of Proviron(meterolone) given by another doctor. He said I have seen cases like this and he said its completely treatable. He asked for Penile Doppler, and some other test I dont know whats it called. Anal insertion to check on the Prostrate, the nuts etc. Also T, Free T, FSH/LH, Prolactin.

The penile injection dint do a thing for me, and as erection was minimal and the report rated it as a ED. Other tests for Nuts or prostrate came back normal.

FSH - 4.10 MiU/ml
LH - 3.10 Miu/ml

Prolactin 45.34 ng/ml (normal for men has a upper limit of 15.2 ng/ml)
Testosterone Total 2.40 ng/ml (Normal says 2.8-8.0 ng/ml)
Free T is 18.99 ng/ml.

He rounded the T and said its a Secondary hypogonadism and put me on TRT quite clearly. Docs dont talk a lot about treatments in India which might be surprising to people in the west.

40mg T pill form everday
injection of HcG of 500 iu two times a week
two times a day L-Arginine powder drink,
and Tazzle pill once a day which is similar to Viagra.

My reaction to this. This was something positve for me when the doctor said Ill treat this. First was to keep the injection cool till I reach home which is a 6 hour ride.

I started the course. First day my erection short up and more blood flow in the penis and more sensitivity in the nuts. But first 30 days woke up with mild or abve mild erection desire to masturbate gradully set in. Semen volume which is very poor improved a bit.

after 30 days I wrote to him said its improving bt nothing to say 100% or close to it. he said its a good improvement continue for a month and meet me. The best part came around 40 th day when I really felt that I could get a erection when I want and dont have to wait for any stimulation althouhg it wont become hard unless I touch the penis.
I was getting better and one night the nuts were really sensitive I prolonged the erection to orgasm which could wait for a long time.
Only thing that had not improved a lot was the semen volume. Libido and erection were I think atleast 80 percent that week.

by the 45-47 th day, the effects started coming down even on medication!!! I dont know why. I am really confused. and By 60th of the course I am back to pretreatment, poor libido erection and volume. I am going to meet the doctor this week.

He may want to check my T levels now I reckon. This was the same pattern when I was on proviron treatment. It would peak after 2-3 weaks and then even on treatment it would (good effects) woud come down.

During better erection and blood flow days I felt better urination. Nows its back to pretreatment time . Poor urination.

Only thing I that I really feel Iam retaining now is my memory which improved with treatment and I can recollect things a lot better. The neuro transmitter column talks of Dopamine and its effects. it talks of this peaking and fall could be its reception to the T levels. I dont know how my doc will react if I suggest something like this. I have a gynecomastia problem and weight gain. Its pretty confusing!

Mark

#12

Here are my thoughts on why this is happening. Your problems likely stem from elevated Prolactin, elevated SHBG and elevated Estrogen levels.

Any doctor prescribing TRT should know to test for ESTRADIOL, ESTRIOL and ESTRONE to make sure your Estrogen levels aren’t going too high. If Estrogen gets elevated, you will suffer ED, weight gain, loss of libido, gynecomastia etc. In this case you would need to take an Aromatase Inhibitor like ARIMIDEX to keep E2 (Estradiol) under control.

Similarly, elevated estrogen can increase SHBG, which binds up Free Testosterone so that even despite being on TRT, you may not have much actual “Testosterone” available to the body, since it will be bound to SHBG.

The fact your doctor is neglecting to test for SHBG and the various estrogen tests (particularly Estradiol) tells me he is not looking out for your health or managing your TRT program correctly.

You should insist on testing for SHBG and the various Estrogen tests to see what effect the TRT is having in those areas.

Your prolactin is clearly elevated out of range. Elevated Prolactin can cause loss of libido/ED in men, and surpress Testosterone production, not to mention play a role in gynecomastia.

Why did your doctor not TREAT THIS with a Dopamine Agonist like Bromocriptine or Cabergoline, before suggesting you just go on TRT?

For all you know, getting prolactin under control may have alleviated some of your symptoms and caused an increase in Testosterone.

I would ask the doctor to consider treating this.

So he prescribed you ORAL tablets which are HEPATOXIC to the liver??

I would seriously discuss switching over to INJECTIONS, PATCHES or GELS which are not known to have anywhere near the risk of hepatoxicity compared to oral testosterone.

You really need to do some reading so you can present facts to your doctor about how to go about getting the RIGHT kind of treatment, if you want to stay on TRT.

This points to elevated Estrogen levels. GET YOUR ESTROGEN LEVELS CHECKED.

#13

Everything you say about TRT is true, Mew. But I have the feeling that estrogen, SHBG, etc, is not the cause of this guy’s problems. It would be nice if they were, but I think they’re probably not.

We’ve seen too many post-Propecia guys go on TRT only to see initial benefits that fade after a few days or weeks. I think we can draw the conclusion that post-Propecia cases do not respond in a typical way to TRT.

What Mark is describing is the defining response to TRT for us post-Propecia cases: there is an initial positive response to increased androgens, but that response quickly seems to disappear. So many guys who have tried TRT and written about it on this forum tell a version of that story: “been on TRT for three weeks, the first two were great, now I’m feeling worse”.

Typically, these guys get advice on how to tweak their TRT: look at your estrogen, SHBG, etc. But even guys who achieve perfect numbers often report that - after a promising start - they see no long-term symptomatic improvement.

It’s not difficult to see a connection between this response to TRT and what happened to many of us immediately after quitting finasteride. We saw initial positive response to returning DHT, and then - after a couple of weeks - a crash.

It’s pretty clear that

(i) Our bodies are not responding normally to androgens, and

(ii) There is a pattern to our abnormal response

Whether it is our own androgen production or TRT there is an initial normal response that tails off: that’s one of the defining characteristics of the post-fin syndrome.

Interestingly, it seems that the longer guys have been off finasteride, the longer they can maintain a good response to androgens. When Awor tried getting back onto TRT weeks after coming off Fin, he found he could maintain a good response only for a matter of hours. Mark has been off for around a year, and finds he can maintain a good response for around a month. Guys who seem to recover using TRT typically have been off fin for years: JN (T injections and proviron), Verkonnikus (Andractim).

So Mark, by all means check your estrogen and SHBG, and sort our your prolactin. But it may not improve your response to TRT.

#14

Even on the above given scale, my prolactin was 10 , six months after I stopped using Finesteride. and now it shows a 45. I am going to meet the doctor tommrow. Another important point I had was dreams, I dont have dreams at all. Forget, sexual dreams, no dreams at all!!

Is that something to do completely with sleep or with anything else? does anyone experience that?

Mark

#15

Hello Folks,

I am back after a long time to share some information about my situation. Please read my previous write-up to get a feel of where I was 2008.

I have question if someone can get me an answer.
{1} Can anyone recommend an Andrologist or Endocrinologist in India. I am running out of names whom I feel can help me. :frowning:

Since 2009 January, I have been meeting a doctor in Bangalore who told said he has 2-3 patients with similar situation. He has tried various combinations of TRT primarily pills ( with HCG). The results have always been similar to what I stated below.

It imporves many things after use of 25-30 days, then drops even when on the medication. after so many months or different trials I suggested to check estradiol to see if that is causing the resistance.

I got it checked without anyother tests (had repeated LH/FSH , T and free T which he tests most of the times)

Estradiol turned out 37 pg/ml (Adult male range 7.6 - 43 pg/ml)

I thought it could be something to look at but he right way at one go said it looks fine and no worries on estrodiol.

He said there is a resistance to trying to raise the T levels by the body and its better to let nature take its course for the moment and gave me herbal pills for now.

I have not taken it ever. and had no medication for past 4 months.

Suddenly out of the blue I was improving last 2 weeks (better sensitivity of testes, libidio, better precum etc). I was happy at something without even semblance of a drug…but last three days loosk like it is taking the same turn that happend earlier. somekind of a resistance is it.

My T was off course low 1.59 on a scale of 2.8 to 8 (taken in April 2010) .

I would still want to hope and see if the Estrodiol is an area to look at.

Want to add that, the memory loss, poor urination pressure issues that I had during 2007 when it all started have weaned off completely. I seem to have a good memory and good urination pressure for a year now. :slight_smile:

#16

Hi Mark_Benson,

I think your doctor is wrong regarding the Estradiol level. I have been doing a lot of research regarding this lately. For men the optimal level should be in the low 20’s and anything above 30 can cause problems for men.

For some reason, all of the doctors take this close minded approach of believing it’s only an issue if you are above the absolute top of the range. My number has also tested in the 30’s, but I have only recently started thinking this could be the cause of the problem.

I would encourage you to go onto some of the body building forums and research what a healthy man’s estradiol level should be.

#17

I have not taken any pharama drugs for last 14-15 months, after last June my Doctor stated that it will eventually settle down, he din’t refuse treatment but I was not really confident and thought I will relax my body off any drugs for sometime. My current situation is 20-25% better than the “0” that I had hit 4 years ago(when quitting 1 mg finasteride) . The improvements, I beleive have alsobeen surely due to medication in part. I can maintain a erection (I can have one , but I am not sure I can intercourse, my confidence and desire were so low, I have had a intercourse after the problems began) .

In Jan 2011, I started a herbal drug (Nano Leo) (google it) which has Tribulus and zinc, and few other ingridients (I had a prescription for it). The improvements I felt were as good as being on Test capsules I had been taking during my treatment with Doctor. But as typical as it were, it just weans aways evern few weaks…I have not taken it after March again, as they are expensive and I want “permenant” treatments to my issues and keep taking them.

I am in North America now and I hope to see better doctors who can run better blood work for me apart from “basics” which I had run till now. I am hoping that there is something for a doc to work with by the way of my Estradiol ( it was 37 on a scale of 7-41pg/ml) , SHGB. I can’t afford anything now, but after a few months I hope to see a doc and rework my situ.

Over last four years, I can see that my sloppy brain and bad memory cleared compltely with in 1 year of stopping. my erections improved and libido and semen from 0 to a 20% -25% now.

#18

I felt that my nails are growing quickly…I din;'t give much importance to it earlier as I dint want to think too much…But someone mentioned it so just checking if anyone else had this post finasteride? I have never had my DHT checked…could it be because of DHT ?

#19

I get this when I take MSM. If you’re taking it then there’s your answer. Otherwise I didnt notice this effect.

#20

Just to add a strange symptom. I have noticed that the mucus from my nose is always clear or pure white. Whereas before all of this i would often wake up with a very stuffy nose full of your average yellow boogies.