Well, regardless, phenibut is NOT a cure. Tolerance develops VERY quickly and once you stop using it, the symptoms come creeping back in. It’s just a band-aid, like most supplements are. Once he (3pm) gets back online, he’ll be able to attest to this. We had some PM’s a few weeks back in regards to this.
I disagree with your viewpoint slightly, cd. I think Phenibut illuminates a method to establish a cure, but for the reason you mentioned, it isn’t a permanent solution. Different men have different responses to it, but regarding the deep sleep aspect of it, I think that is a therapy many of us in this HPTA shutdown condition can use.
Kinda shocked that you want to kick this in the trash after you yourself said it was the closest you felt to feeling your emotions again, and enjoying things for once. In the least it can help explain what is absent to induce such symptoms.
Anyway, it’s been 2 mo’s so here’s an update I guess: I needed to organize my health insurance, and I will finally be getting proper coverage again. I’m seeing my PCP in a week or so, and I’m eager to explain how amazing I felt, and how every symptom I had gradually went away with Phenibut. Obviously since Phenibut is like a poor man’s Xyrem this makes sense, and because I have developed a quick tolerance to PB (too quick to use it as a treatment), I am going to work with him to get Xyrem. I can’t live in this much pain, and this rest-deprived. So things should get moving again.
I still believe it is very clear that something has compromised HPTA function, causing sleep and even neurochemicals to suffer, hence the zombie-like state. No idea what it is but since Xyrem has shown to reduce these symptoms considerably and on a permanent basis, that is clearly the avenue I need to go down. Otherwise I haven’t wished to post since nothing else has been going on. I’ll let everyone know what goes down in a week or two. Wish me luck!
I would like you to show me where I decided to “kick this in the trash.”
Anything that can help us feel better, I am a fan of. I am simply letting this sufferer know that this is not a cure, because it isn’t. No need to have him get his hopes up. Recovery and cure are words that I take serious and I think others should to. You are not cured or recovered, so letting others believe that you are isn’t really a nice thing to do. I was simply putting things in perspective.
Best of luck 3pm.
I don’t think Phenibut gets to the root of our problem. It is psychoactive substance known to induce euphoria. It can aid sleep and help ease depression/anxiety. So it’s no surprise it has some guys here feeling better, which is great. But I’m sure MDMA would have some guys feeling better in a similar way.
If I had to put money on it, I’d bet the same is true of GHB. But there may be something going on there with 5AR or something else we don’t understand.
As for compromised HPTA function, it’s pretty clear that this doesn’t really explain the post-Propecia condition. Look at the user Awor: his HPTA didn’t work even before he took Propecia, which is why he was on TRT. After Propecia, his TRT didn’t work any more. That’s not about a malfunctioning HPTA. That’s about a malfunction in the way his body now responds to androgens.
The effects we observe on sleep and brain function are perfectly consistent with this. Androgens play an important role in sleep via DHT’s mediation of nitric oxide. If you are not responding to androgens properly, you make less nitric oxide, and you sleep less well. Androgens play an important role in brain function via a host of mechanisms, such as androgen’s excitory effect on memory and learning neurons in the hippocampus.
How long have you been off the drug? Have you ever considered giving TRT a try? If it works, guys typically find that things improve across the board, including sleep.
I’m a bit confused. I thought Phenibut had fixed everything? So Phenibut was only like a temporary fix and now you are back to all of your Propecia-induced dysfunctions? If this is true, I am quite sad. 3pm, have you considered the SPECT scan like I got? It did bring me some closure in late 2007 when I was able to come off of all psych meds…
Just FYI – his username is “3pm”, not “3com” (or “c-3po”, lol).
Unfortunately, that’s correct. As phenibut no longer had an effect in me, the once-eliminated symptoms slowly returned over the course of a few weeks. I only got a few treatments which worked before tolerance set in, therefore I believe that - if not for the tolerance - this would have been a more permanent recovery. I feel the goal was to re-train my body how to get good rest again, and 2 weeks was not enough.
I interpreted your post as writing off Phenibut, because I think this event was significant in diagnosing the problem. Fair enough, though.
No. Don’t think I want to. I’m sure my brain is fine, just deprived of important hormones. My Neurologist ordered an MRI last year and apparently nothing was wrong.
Ultimately, the prevailing consensus here seems to be that I got high on a drug. Considering the fact that it, among other things, eliminated my brain fog, muscle tightness/pain, and even penile shrinkage - a condition we didn’t even know could be reversed - I am confident this is more than someone taking E or smoking weed and “feeling good”. Phenibut’s method of functioning is obviously relevant to how my condition changed, but it also is relevant to what is deficient. Also, the “cured” feeling lasted way longer than a few days after taking it, so it wasn’t like I snorted coke, felt great for a few hours, and shit hit the fan again. It felt like learning how to ride a bike using training wheels again; I think I just need more “practice” to remember how to “ride”.
Hi guys,
sadly enough, phenibut doesnt seem to work for me. I used it a few weeks ago for 2 days and i didnt notice any effect. Last night i went up to 1,5g/dose cause i thought my previous doses were to low, but it didnt even improve my sleep. Just noticed, that i was dreaming a lot more weird stuff. Damn im tired of eating my way through al these supps and pills 
greets from europe
To post a minor update, I am feeling better. Nowhere near the impeccable endurance and health I had when Phenibut worked for me, but I’m getting stronger. It’s stemming from my current approach to eliminating the debilitation with a regimen of exercise, food and curfew.
I am trying to keep my protein intake high, to fuel anabolism and keep my muscles strong through all my exercise. 3 meals, high in veggies and protein, keeping carbs down a bit. Obviously, the fact that T production is somehow impaired explains much of why I lose muscle, but this seems to help.
I’ve been doing regular exercise daily, from push-ups and sit-ups to weight work. Sometimes its a bitch to go thru, but I’ve seen good results. I also jog at night, when the air is cooler, and that also helps keep me on the ball.
I also noticed that I seem to have a lot of fat on my face, and I really didn’t have this before Propecia got me sick. The fact that I sometimes am too stirred to shut down at night makes me question if my cortisol is too high, so I am trying some Phosphatidylserine. In the least, it may help me sleep and improve anabolism.
What I notice about my condition is that my muscles aren’t toned/are tight, I’m “out of it” like I’m lacking something to keep my brain awake, and I still believe that somehow, it’s the result of a dopamine/catecholamine problem. When I recovered, the feeling was unmistakably the presence of dopamine restoring my mind and my body… the only question is why would we be so deficient in it? It could just be a tangential consequence of low T, or something else, who knows. The first step is realizing its relevance.
Anyway, sorry if this isn’t a terribly revealing post, I just felt like saying what I’m up to is helping. I find I have to keep myself on a strict schedule to maintain circadian rhythm and to keep busy, especially since brain fog causes me to sometimes wander. I keep my PC time to a bare minimum for this and other reasons.
I’ll be working over the summer and will only butt-in if there’s something important to say. I think we all are well-aware by now that this cause is at a stalemate, as is our state of health. For me and others like me here, posting is a lot like playing a broken record, and it doesn’t help. Newcomers just need to read to extract the info they need, and we need to follow the clues and the symptoms in order to see what works. I continue to post in the Recovery section is because I fully believe that what happened to me was very relevant, and I’m on my way to getting Xyrem to deal with shitty sleep issues (should have it by end of summer…nice timing eh?). Hell, also, I am improving.
Until then, I wish everyone the best.
Did you get your DHT, progesterone and 5AR activity levels tested somewhere? Is it even possible to test it?
Did your testicles also feel smaller or only penis? How did your penis become shrinked: just shorter or also thinner?
Thanks!
Through this past week, I tried something of a fast just to see what it would be like, beginning last Sunday. It’s not a full fast as I’ve been eating vegetables, fruits, nuts and the odd cookie here and there, but by day 2 or 3 I was pretty surprised to report that I was feeling more lucid than usual. Now it’s been about six days like this, and I’m really confused by this change, simply because no one else needs to stave off of the typical healthy diet to understand and function their brain.
I’ll probably proceed doing this right now because I have no way to really work with doctors yet (should come in Sept), carrying on the whole raw idea for maybe 2 more weeks. But yeah, my head is definitely absorbing, sensing and understanding more than usual. Makes me wonder if there’s a digestive component to this, or perhaps its just the typical benefit of a fast, who knows. It’s also hardly a tremendous sacrifice as no matter how well ate, my muscle wastage + brain fog made every day tasks a mountain.
I think you liver can work easily now while fasting
to much nuts will make it worse… just a handfull, not more… no nuts would be the best. dont mix sugar with fat… like when you eat nuts… wait at least 1, 5 hours till you eat fruits…
diet needs time but it works
Thinking of why -
Situations of adrenal fatigue are exacerbated by digesting heavy foods. And again, hormones have a role in our metabolic rates; if we’re low in hormones, eating significant meals often will set our digestive systems back. And of course, there’s the standard effect of feeling improvements that nearly everyone trying a fast or healthier diet rich in valuable nutrients will have.
Truth is some things aren’t easily explained, such as therapeutic and regenerative potential of a “living food” regimen. And no one needs to repeat the fact that our situation is grim and void of solutions from even the most lauded pros, so this is an option.
Anyway I have gone only 2 weeks like this, avoiding meat and eating mainly foods in their natural state. Only recently I decided to add a protein shake at night (catabolic period), so my muscles don’t end up withering. Results have been positive… no major changes in sex function, but improvements in focus and other fin-induced mental sides have looked up.
Ultimately there’s a good chance before the year is up that I will visit Dr. Crisler and talk to him about this situation. I’m also working on a video…
In the past ,whenever I did fasting I observed healing effects. My skin became better (in theory it should be opposite due to lack of water).I had stomach ulcer, it healed alot and I had to take less medicines. But this should be complete fast, no water no food, just like Muslim people do.
I will soon write my story, I am suffering due to saw Palmetto. This is my first fasting aftert saw palmetto and will let you know afer 30 days.
no water?? i think you cant do a prana fasting with no experience… drink water…
I may be able to help you with that if you’d like, once I get my current video projects done for work. I’ve got 13 years of photoshop and 3 years of after effects under my belt. Send me a PM if you’re interested.
yeah dudes… please make a good anti fin video… thats what the world needs… really!
The video will take me time to complete, since my access to the PC will be limited in the coming days. Anyway, by the end of this week, I will probably have something tangible for changing some minds of its viewers. I’m proficient in PS and video editing so that’s no issue. Mew I’m going to run the end product by you, as I see this as a motion of the group and cause collectively.
The video is a great idea. I hope you do it, one of the hardest things on all this mess is making people believe you.